TW Discusses Our List

[_RT_]

As some of you may be aware TW has been looking over the lists of all the teams. He has finally got around to having a look at our list and has voiced his opinions.

- First off he says that we got our top end picks from 05 & 06 wrong, although I think he meant 04 & 05 as he says it was his first and second years at the club. Says that this has set us back a few years.

- Really rates our inside midfielders, says that Cotchin & Martin are the stars. He also suggests that Foleys return is really important as he is another classy player which makes it hard for opposition sides to tag all of them. Says Tuck and Jackson are the grunt and that Grigg will add some real endeavour as will Edwards

- Sees our rucks as a real problem, says Graham needs to step up now and make the position his at the moment as both Browne and Vickery are still only 20 and a few years away from being ready. Questions whether they can develop quickly. Says Vickery really needs to step up.

- Likes our run out of the backline in the form of Deledio Connors and Newman. Suggests that Deledio is playing the role Hodge played a couple of years back for the Hawks. What we are missing though is the big KPD types. Says that we're going to play Astbury and develop him, also says that Rance is really important to how we fair. Has a body like Glass at the Eagles, but really needs to take the next step. The one thing holding him back is decision making rather than poor skills. Says that if Rance fails then we're back to guys like Thursfield Moore and McGuane who he sees as more HB/BP types as they just don't have the physicality to be able to play KPD.

- Up forward Riewoldt is the star but lacks class around him. Sees Griffiths as the other KPF we'll build around and suggests that he needs to be played as its the only way he is going to develop. Same goes for Vickery. Is interested in what we'll do with Morton, while he seemed to do ok moving up the ground last year, wonders if its the right move to shift a guy capable of kicking 40 goals away from the F50. Suggests that at this stage we should leave him forward until we find someone capable of replacing him in that role. As far as small forwards go we're struggling. We just don't have anyone in the class of a Garlett or Yarran. Says that at the moment we're forced to play Nahas and King there but they're not really the answer, although he believes Nahas could be a player who has that touch of spark about him, but just wonders if his size is going to enable him to do it.

- Sees this year as another year of development. We need to be getting games into big guys like Griffiths Astbury Graham Vickery Rance and bring them along. As far as the midfield goes says that its good enough to keep us somewhat competitive, but until the bigs come one we're going to struggle to win enough games to make a serious climb. Says our aim for this year should be to get out of the bottom 4. The one real positive thing he said was that once it does click things will move rather rapidly.

Finally he said our problems stem from missing a generation of players who would be in the 26-30 bracket now as well as a few more players from the 04-05 drafts who along with Deledio would be that next group down i.e. 22-25 100 odd games. However, says that the good thing now is that the majority of our list is well set to come together as a unit. Says we've got a good mixture in terms of players under 24, just need to give them time to come on.

For those that want to listen to what he said you can click here: http://twaud.io/qnW5

 

[TheProwler]

Who cares what this horses arse says.

 

[djspank]

Thanks for the summary RT

 

[Equus]

Good summary RT.

 

[cairo tiger]

did he say he was to blame for our inept drafting?

 

[delediofan3]

Pretty good considering I kinda hate him
I kind of have to thank him for getting Deledio, Cotchin and Riewoldt

 

[nut]

Not a bad summary from TW... Robbie Hicks seems the forgotten man at the moment.

Nahas needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat to make it IMO... Morton can play a dangerous half forward role.

Gourdis will hopefully Kick on too. Grimes maybe a surprise packet also.

Our depth down back looks ok... plenty of competitions for spots.

 

[Azzleberry]

He summed it up pretty well IMO... Pity he couldn't put all the pieces together when he was at the club...

 

[UpTheGuts]

Could have a worse football manager at a well resourced club. Cannot imagine we'd be unreal if we'd selected Eade for example

 

[santa claws]

As some of you may be aware TW has been looking over the lists of all the teams. He has finally got around to having a look at our list and has voiced his opinions.

- First off he says that we got our top end picks from 05 & 06 wrong, although I think he meant 04 & 05 as he says it was his first and second years at the club. Says that this has set us back a few years.

- Really rates our inside midfielders, says that Cotchin & Martin are the stars. He also suggests that Foleys return is really important as he is another classy player which makes it hard for opposition sides to tag all of them. Says Tuck and Jackson are the grunt and that Grigg will add some real endeavour as will Edwards

- Sees our rucks as a real problem, says Graham needs to step up now and make the position his at the moment as both Browne and Vickery are still only 20 and a few years away from being ready. Questions whether they can develop quickly. Says Vickery really needs to step up.

- Likes our run out of the backline in the form of Deledio Connors and Newman. Suggests that Deledio is playing the role Hodge played a couple of years back for the Hawks. What we are missing though is the big KPD types. Says that we're going to play Astbury and develop him, also says that Rance is really important to how we fair. Has a body like Glass at the Eagles, but really needs to take the next step. The one thing holding him back is decision making rather than poor skills. Says that if Rance fails then we're back to guys like Thursfield Moore and McGuane who he sees as more HB/BP types as they just don't have the physicality to be able to play KPD.

- Up forward Riewoldt is the star but lacks class around him. Sees Griffiths as the other KPF we'll build around and suggests that he needs to be played as its the only way he is going to develop. Same goes for Vickery. Is interested in what we'll do with Morton, while he seemed to do ok moving up the ground last year, wonders if its the right move to shift a guy capable of kicking 40 goals away from the F50. Suggests that at this stage we should leave him forward until we find someone capable of replacing him in that role. As far as small forwards go we're struggling. We just don't have anyone in the class of a Garlett or Yarran. Says that at the moment we're forced to play Nahas and King there but they're not really the answer, although he believes Nahas could be a player who has that touch of spark about him, but just wonders if his size is going to enable him to do it.

- Sees this year as another year of development. We need to be getting games into big guys like Griffiths Astbury Graham Vickery Rance and bring them along. As far as the midfield goes says that its good enough to keep us somewhat competitive, but until the bigs come one we're going to struggle to win enough games to make a serious climb. Says our aim for this year should be to get out of the bottom 4. The one real positive thing he said was that once it does click things will move rather rapidly.

Finally he said our problems stem from missing a generation of players who would be in the 26-30 bracket now as well as a few more players from the 04-05 drafts who along with Deledio would be that next group down i.e. 22-25 100 odd games. However, says that the good thing now is that the majority of our list is well set to come together as a unit. Says we've got a good mixture in terms of players under 24, just need to give them time to come on.

For those that want to listen to what he said you can click here: http://twaud.io/qnW5

that summary is pretty much on the money.

 

[Harvey Leadpipe]

He's pretty much summed us up spot on.

The rucks are an issue, although I think big Tom can be a dark horse this year and chime in with a chop-out when he gets used to the pace of AFL. Still lacking a real talented ruck though.

Agree with Jack needing help, our backs lacking a real KPD, and missing that core group.

I've always said we weren't going to be good until Lids was 28-29, and using his experience to guide the youngsters that have never been exposed to the endless line of duds we've had streaming through the doors. Looking fairly likely.

Good summary RT

 

[IDGAF]

He's pretty much summed us up spot on.

The rucks are an issue, although I think big Tom can be a dark horse this year and chime in with a chop-out when he gets used to the pace of AFL. Still lacking a real talented ruck though.

Agree with Jack needing help, our backs lacking a real KPD, and missing that core group.

I've always said we weren't going to be good until Lids was 28-29, and using his experience to guide the youngsters that have never been exposed to the endless line of duds we've had streaming through the doors. Looking fairly likely.

Good summary RT

agreed Harv .

Pity he couldn't ply that incisive insight during his tenure .

a lot of our immediate future hangs on Griffiths shoulders for mine (literally and metaphorically).. he is the wildcard . If he crunches a few packs and clunks a few marks (which for all intents and purposes looks on the cards ..gulp) ... anything could happen , quicker than a lot think ... he goes down and its all on Jack ? ... 6-8 wins in struggle town

 

[Tetley Tigers]

That about sums it up.

Although Wallace is not that popular on this forum he really didn't have a lot to work with when he got there. With five picks inside the Top 21 you would have hoped that at least 3 of those picks would have come on.

2005 was just a disaster.

2006 drafts and onwards have been pretty good.

 

[Bazzar]

I have enjoyed all Wallace’s team summaries so far. Was a shit coach, but has been on the ball with all his analys so far (Carlton included)

 

[santa claws]

That about sums it up.

Although Wallace is not that popular on this forum he really didn't have a lot to work with when he got there. With five picks inside the Top 21 you would have hoped that at least 3 of those picks would have come on.

2005 was just a disaster.

2006 drafts and onwards have been pretty good.

have drafts from 06 onwards really been good. theres some proof in the pudding that needs to happen before anyone can say that.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Thanks for the summary RT.

He suggests we get games into our kids but am puzzled why he didnt take his own advice when he was at the helm.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

And he gets paid for that. He is merely
stating the obvious. Did he take any responsibility for us not having any 26-30 year olds on the list. It would be even more handy having another 6 22-26 year olds on the list. I have always said the Frawley era was the loaded gun with all the recycling and topping up but Wallace just pulled the trigger and did the same thing.

I don't have any respect for Wallace after round 1 in 2009. He had a entire off season to motivate what was a handy side and they just didn't turn up. Should of shown him the door after his press conference that night. They waited 10 weeks too late to get rid of the show pony.

Thanks anyways RT

 

[IDGAF]

I don't have any respect for Wallace after round 1 in 2009. He had a entire off season to motivate what was a handy side and they just didn't turn up. Should of shown him the door after his press conference that night. They waited 10 weeks too late to get rid of the show pony.

Have always maintained the same thing ... the next ten weeks were excruciating knowing it was all over 10 minutes into the second quarter . Thats the lowest i have felt since Helen Demico's hairy twat staggered across the "G"

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Have always maintained the same thing ... the next ten weeks were excruciating knowing it was all over 10 minutes into the second quarter . Thats the lowest i have felt since Helen Demico's hairy twat staggered across the "G"

After such a great finish to 08 and all we should of turned up for that game. It should of been the focus of the entire preseason and he
let them roll out that ****. Boils my blood.

The bullshit that came out of his mouth straight after it. Sometimes you just got put your hand up
and say " I fukced up" people respect that.

Terry Wallace is a toilet!

 

[Rayzorwire]

a lot of our immediate future hangs on Griffiths shoulders for mine (literally and metaphorically).. he is the wildcard . If he crunches a few packs and clunks a few marks (which for all intents and purposes looks on the cards ..gulp) ... anything could happen , quicker than a lot think ... he goes down and its all on Jack ? ... 6-8 wins in struggle town

Disagree Iddy, I think the Pies have shown you can throw any old hack with a bit of mobility and aggression into key forward roles and win a flag if the rest is good enough.

So I guess all we need is our first mobile hack with aggression?

I do agree that we'll improve very quickly from the good base we've built over the next couple of years.

I have enjoyed all Wallace’s team summaries so far. Was a shit coach, but has been on the ball with all his analys so far (Carlton included)

Wallace was the best match day coach of the modern era IMO Baz, what he did with the sides he had to work with was nothing short of astounding and it's extremely disappointing to lose someone of his football intelligence - he's a one of a kind and irreplaceable.

Maybe 10-20yrs from now clubs will split the duties of coaching and have one specialist who is the tactical game day coach and another who handles the more touchy-feely aspects of development, training etc..

Finding someone who is genuinely top-shelf in both is a virtual impossibility...IMO you need a different kind of brain wiring to do each role at the highest level possible.

Wallace was wired to see players like chess pieces from the coaching box and be able to keep a dozen or more relevant to the game facts about each one of them in his head (injury they're carrying, how long they've been on for, how hard they've had to work in that time, how does their body size differ to their opponent, are there any players they can get a matchup advantage on, how is their confidence, do they work harder in one role than another, do they have a historical edge on a player or vice-versa, how many total minutes did they manage to do a role well for last week etc.), a dozen about each of the opposition players, a handful about how to best play the ground (his record at Skilled Stadium is second only to Geelong coaches), a few about the mind of the opposition coach (he's had all the best foaming at the mouth after losing to us at one time or another) and pull all these things together to eke a precious 3-4 goal advantage on top of how the side would go without him. For a side that's bottom-4 quality, that 3-4 goals can only take you so far, for a flag contender it can be the difference between 8th and 1st.

The man's a football savant, no other coach can extract useful data from what they're seeing, process it, apply it to advantage, then move on to the next dynamic minute and do it all again like Wallace could.

Needless to say, a man who thinks at that level and is also totally driven to succeed, is far more likely to be up at 3am running through endless footage exploring an inkling that if he forces Fevola to lead to the right hand side of goal he historically has a 16% greater chance of missing, rather than finding the time to play touchy-feely most days with an endless succession of wet behind the ears draftees.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Disagree Iddy, I think the Pies have shown you can throw any old hack with a bit of mobility and aggression into key forward roles and win a flag if the rest is good enough.

So I guess all we need is our first mobile hack with aggression?

I do agree that we'll improve very quickly from the good base we've built over the next couple of years.

Wallace was the best match day coach of the modern era IMO Baz, what he did with the sides he had to work with was nothing short of astounding and it's extremely disappointing to lose someone of his football intelligence - he's a one of a kind and irreplaceable.

Maybe 10-20yrs from now clubs will split the duties of coaching and have one specialist who is the tactical game day coach and another who handles the more touchy-feely aspects of development, training etc..

Finding someone who is genuinely top-shelf in both is a virtual impossibility...IMO you need a different kind of brain wiring to do each role at the highest level possible.

Wallace was wired to see players like chess pieces from the coaching box and be able to keep a dozen or more relevant to the game facts about each one of them in his head (injury they're carrying, how long they've been on for, how hard they've had to work in that time, how does their body size differ to their opponent, are there any players they can get a matchup advantage on, how is their confidence, do they work harder in one role than another, do they have a historical edge on a player or vice-versa, how many total minutes did they manage to do a role well for last week etc.), a dozen about each of the opposition players, a handful about how to best play the ground (his record at Skilled Stadium is second only to Geelong coaches), a few about the mind of the opposition coach (he's had all the best foaming at the mouth after losing to us at one time or another) and pull all these things together to eke a precious 3-4 goal advantage on top of how the side would go without him. For a side that's bottom-4 quality, that 3-4 goals can only take you so far, for a flag contender it can be the difference between 8th and 1st.

The man's a football savant, no other coach can extract useful data from what they're seeing, process it, apply it to advantage, then move on to the next dynamic minute and do it all again like Wallace could.

Needless to say, a man who thinks at that level and is also totally driven to succeed, is far more likely to be up at 3am running through endless footage exploring an inkling that if he forces Fevola to lead to the right hand side of goal he historically has a 16% greater chance of missing, rather than finding the time to play touchy-feely most days with an endless succession of wet behind the ears draftees.

Cool story bro.

Here are the FACTS>
Wallace set our club back 5 YEARS.
Our playing list wanted him out.
The president wanted him out.
No AFL club will touch him, he will never coach AFL again. Ever.

 

[docko911]

Cool story bro.

Here are the FACTS>
Wallace set our club back 5 YEARS.
Our playing list wanted him out.
The president wanted him out.
No AFL club will touch him, he will never coach AFL again. Ever.

And all those things mentioned by rayzor should be standard expectations of any coach otherwise why would they get paid so much to watch football.

 

[Bazzar]

Maybe 10-20yrs from now clubs will split the duties of coaching and have one specialist who is the tactical game day coach and another who handles the more touchy-feely aspects of development, training etc..

Great call. Look at Bucks this year, he has changed roles and is now the Opposition analyst. A fair amount of that knowledge will change after he has had the top job for a few years, but he will be in a position as head coach to know what type of person to appoint and what they should be looking for to advise match committee. That same role he has, Wallace now has for his radio commitments and thats why im enjoying what he has to say.

Funny fickle supporters we have, look at those here who want to get rid of KB and Knighter from the clubs fund raising. Same with Wallace, they just cant let it go even when he has good things to say.

 

[_RT_]

The on thing I was kind of pleased with is that he admitted, in someway, that he ****ed up early on in the piece. TW knows that he didn't get the job done at Richmond, he might of left a couple of future stars for the next coach to build on, but when that same coach cuts half of the players that were left by TW its pretty clear that the list wasn't in as good a shape as some here suggest it was.

 

[Harvey Leadpipe]

Great call. Look at Bucks this year, he has changed roles and is now the Opposition analyst. A fair amount of that knowledge will change after he has had the top job for a few years, but he will be in a position as head coach to know what type of person to appoint and what they should be looking for to advise match committee. That same role he has, Wallace now has for his radio commitments and thats why im enjoying what he has to say.

Funny fickle supporters we have, look at those here who want to get rid of KB and Knighter from the clubs fund raising. Same with Wallace, they just cant let it go even when he has good things to say.

Agree. He no doubt severely underperformed as our coach, but what does he say in his synopsis that is incorrect? His best work was always as a commentator. He communicates his observations very well. Unfortunately for us he only had one vision, and that was a lightweight nippy team that would run other teams off their feet. It backfired, and he had no other plan, but this does not affect his ability to observe the goings on of all the clubs and presenting them in an informative manner.