Two Ruckmen...NOW!

[ruscy002]

The time has come...I don't care if its Griffin, McKernan, or Trent Ormond-Allen, we need to play two ruckmen.

For starters, only one team inside the top 8 plays without a second ruckman and that is Fremantle. When you have a freak of nature like Sandilands at your disposal, you can afford to do things a bit differently. We don't, and I don't know what makes us think that we're so special that we deviate from a formula that works for all of the best teams in the competition.

Maric is playing some excellent footy but he's spent by the last quarter. Its just not good enough that we don't have Tippett in the goal square when it's crunch time and the game is in the balance.

Our 2009 season can be broken down into two sections - the first 8 games where we were using only one ruckman, and the last 16 games where we used two ruckmen.

First 8
Won 3, lost 5.
Goals to Tippett - 9 (1.125 per game)

Last 16
Won 12, lost 4.
Goals to Tippett - 46 (2.875 per game)

While I couldn't be bothered working it out, there's a considerable difference between the average points scored between these periods, one look at the figures and this is clear.

Obviously this doesn't tell the full story of 2009, nor is it a quick fix solution for our 2010 debacle. But surely this is significant in terms of our current inability to kick a score and convert inside 50s into scoring opportunities.

I think Craigy is waiting until Sellar is fit to fill this void...if so then this area has been a crucial oversight because it's really hurting us.

Thoughts?

 

[King Elvis]

Agreed.

 

[LC40]

Agree completely! Two ruckmen would at least be a start.

 

[screwpunt]

totally agreed, tippett is a foward

Craig is a coach of a private high school team

we need ruckmen, it is called recruiting

this was apparent 4 years ago

 

[Archie87]

The time has come...I don't care if its Griffin, McKernan, or Trent Ormond-Allen, we need to play two ruckmen.

For starters, only one team inside the top 8 plays without a second ruckman and that is Fremantle. When you have a freak of nature like Sandilands at your disposal, you can afford to do things a bit differently. We don't, and I don't know what makes us think that we're so special that we deviate from a formula that works for all of the best teams in the competition.

Maric is playing some excellent footy but he's spent by the last quarter. Its just not good enough that we don't have Tippett in the goal square when it's crunch time and the game is in the balance.

Our 2009 season can be broken down into two sections - the first 8 games where we were using only one ruckman, and the last 16 games where we used two ruckmen.

First 8
Won 3, lost 5.
Goals to Tippett - 9 (1.125 per game)

Last 16
Won 12, lost 4.
Goals to Tippett - 46 (2.875 per game)

While I couldn't be bothered working it out, there's a considerable difference between the average points scored between these periods, one look at the figures and this is clear.

Obviously this doesn't tell the full story of 2009, nor is it a quick fix solution for our 2010 debacle. But surely this is significant in terms of our current inability to kick a score and convert inside 50s into scoring opportunities.

I think Craigy is waiting until Sellar is fit to fill this void...if so then this area has been a crucial oversight because it's really hurting us.

Thoughts?

This is another issue that really irks me. Did we learn nothing from last year?? The clubs excuse is that we need the extra runner but do they not remember how good we looked when we made Tippett a permanent forward?? On the Thursday chat thing, one of the spokesmen said that Tippett just does centre bounces and then drifts forward and still spends 90% time in the ruck... I find that hard to believe as I could swear I remember Tippett rucking in defence on a number of occasions today. Maybe they don't want Maric and Griffin together as it reduces our mobility (which could be an acceptable excuse as the second ruck probably needs to be more of a mobile tall) and they don't think the other alternative in Mckernan is quite ready yet? They could be waiting for Sellar to be fit again to take that mobile-ruck spot. But still, we need a second ruck.

 

[Pariah]

100% agree with you. When Tippet went in to the ruck today we had no key forward to kick to. If they persist in just using Maric and Tippet as our rucks they need to bring Walker back in to the side so we have someone to give us a target up forward.

 

[ruscy002]

On the Thursday chat thing, one of the spokesmen said that Tippett just does centre bounces and then drifts forward and still spends 90% time in the ruck... I find that hard to believe as I could swear I remember Tippett rucking in defence on a number of occasions today.

You did

Don't believe anything that the club says at the moment...in adversity we've been shown up as a bunch of liars and spindoctors.

Maybe they don't want Maric and Griffin together as it reduces our mobility (which could be an acceptable excuse as the second ruck probably needs to be more of a mobile tall) and they don't think the other alternative in Mckernan is quite ready yet? They could be waiting for Sellar to be fit again to take that mobile-ruck spot. But still, we need a second ruck.

Can't believe I'm building a case for Griffin but...

If you compare the situation to last year, Griffin is pretty much a like for like swap for Sellar. The lack of intensity will show and he won't do an awful lot around the ground, but he'll take the ruck contests and give Maric a rest.

I really, really liked the 2010 model Sellar that we saw for a half against the Swans and have no doubt that he'll come in when he's available, but we should've had another ruckman in the team in his absence, its cost us in ways that we can't really measure.

 

[Vader]

totally agreed, tippett is a foward

Craig is a coach of a private high school team

we need ruckmen, it is called recruiting

this was apparent 4 years ago

We have ruckmen. We have 7 of them - Maric, Moran, Sellar, Griffin, McKernan, Craig and Tippett. We don't need to recruit any more of them.

The problem is that Griffin has turned out to be a complete failure, who won't be around in 2011. McKernan's form has been awful this year, prior to his BOG performance last weekend - a bit of consistency is expected before he gets an AFL recall. Craig is a first year draftee who still has much to learn. That leaves our 2nd and 3rd best ruckmen - Moran & Sellar, both of whom happen to be injured at the moment.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with the OP. We desperately need a 2nd ruckman, to provide Maric with relief and to allow Tippett to spend 100% of his time in the forward line. When that ruckman is likely to be Griffin.. I'd rather stick with the single ruckman option until Sellar becomes available.

 

[Spadge]

Absolutely agree with this

i will say from a Port perspective that i was very happy every time Tippett went into the ruck
He is just too damaging a forward to take away from the forward line

 

[Dangarman]

We have ruckmen. We have 7 of them - Maric, Moran, Sellar, Griffin, McKernan, Craig and Tippett. We don't need to recruit any more of them.

The problem is that Griffin has turned out to be a complete failure, who won't be around in 2011. McKernan's form has been awful this year, prior to his BOG performance last weekend - a bit of consistency is expected before he gets an AFL recall. Craig is a first year draftee who still has much to learn. That leaves our 2nd and 3rd best ruckmen - Moran & Sellar, both of whom happen to be injured at the moment.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with the OP. We desperately need a 2nd ruckman, to provide Maric with relief and to allow Tippett to spend 100% of his time in the forward line. When that ruckman is likely to be Griffin.. I'd rather stick with the single ruckman option until Sellar becomes available.

Yes, Vader, I agree, although I would rather NOT call Tippett a ruck, despite him being quite capable there. And I struggle to even call Griffin an AFL footballer. Rob Shirley would have made a better ruckman.

So, it's a really tough call. A dedicated 2nd ruck would be nice, but who has got the goods? I'll back the club's call on this at the moment.

Hopefully McKernan can back up his BOG this weekend and make a case.

This point seems to be lost on many, one good SANFL match an AFL player does not make. SANFL form is a necessary but not sufficient condition for an AFL callup (golden ticket holders excepted). Remember a guy called Adam Richardson? Four consecutive Ken Farmer medals, complete flop at AFL level.

 

[StillCrowing]

Isn't there an old saying that the best players don't always make the best team?

Neil Craig has been constantly reworking the balance of his team from the start of the season. I don't think he's really found what he's looking for yet, and maybe part of his problem is having Tippett in the ruck. I'm sure he'd like to select a second ruckman but it's probably a scenario where the player really needs to merit selection through SANFL form over a few weeks. Otherwise without that form maybe Griff or Smack comes into the side, does a terrible job, and then everyone wonders why the hell he selected them to play in the first place.

 

[WALL-e]

Must have a back up ruck. NOT GRIFFIN.

How'd Smack play today? Or was he on ground to fill in?

Sellar would be a monty if fit.

 

[BACCS]

I personally think Craigy is just waiting for Sellar to recover from his hammy. Not sure what the go with Mckernan is though.... Sellar straight back in after next week.

 

[arrowman]

Agreed. I am sick and tired of watching Tippett rucking, and away from where he is most dangerous.

Even rucking in the forward area, where he is then, by definition, not in the goalsquare to contest the kick from the clearance.

So he can ruck a bit - so what. It's like when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[Tambaran]

100% correct. Having one ruck (not Tippett) is our problem.

 

[birdmanptr]

We HAD a ruckman did no where near enough to keep him.So no use complainng

 

[-CG-]

Hopefully McKernan can back up his BOG this weekend and make a case.

I read in the paper this morning he had about 9 disposals and 23 hitouts.

IMO this is one of the most glaringly obvious areas we need to fix. It hasn't been working at all.

Poor Maric is completely run off his legs by the fourth quarter its no wonder why we lost the game in the final term yesterday. Having a ruckman who is stuffed was never going to help.

Ideally Sellar would be backing him up but I would have loved to have seen SMACK in the side over the past few weeks. And considering Craig is so hooked up on 'versatility' and 'flexibility' at least SMACK can go forward or back if need be.

 

[crowralph]

100% agree that we need 2 ruckmen. i reckon some people are being pretty hard on griffin. the only time we've seen him at afl level this year he was lone rucking against sandilands. as a back up ruckman i reckon he will be handy. only issue with that is that he offers us nothing elsewhere. the only other position on the ground where he could possibly be adequate would be up forward. obviously this can't happen as the only reason he'd be getting a game is so we can leave tippett up there. sellar is the ideal selection, but i don't agree with some who say that we should wait for him to be fit. we need the 2nd ruckman now, even at the cost of the extra runner. walker straight swap for burton, drop doughty and play petrenko down back, 2nd ruckman comes in for doughty. forward pocket position gets added to mid-field rotation.

actually no need to rotate through pocket. drop stevens as well. with bock, rutten and davis, how many talls do we need down back.

 

[drdave]

I read in the paper this morning he had about 9 disposals and 23 hitouts.

IMO this is one of the most glaringly obvious areas we need to fix. It hasn't been working at all.

Poor Maric is completely run off his legs by the fourth quarter its no wonder why we lost the game in the final term yesterday. Having a ruckman who is stuffed was never going to help.

Ideally Sellar would be backing him up but I would have loved to have seen SMACK in the side over the past few weeks. And considering Craig is so hooked up on 'versatility' and 'flexibility' at least SMACK can go forward or back if need be.

Absolutely

The facts dont lie we were 3 wins and 5 losses last year and are now 0 and 6 this year playing 1 ruckman and Tippett. Our team structure obviously does not work with only one ruckman.

Maric looked out on his feet during the last quater and could barely contest around the ground. The power coaching staff decided before the game that they needed an extra ruckman and brought in Lobbe for Kracker, which in the end was influential in winning the match. Our coaches are to stubborn to try something different even though we were a far better side last year with 2 ruckmen.

I dont care if the extra is McKernan, Griffin or even James Craig. Last year both Sellar and Moran basically came into the side through injury. Not through stand out performance in SANFL, however once they got there chance they stepped up and made fantastic contributions and our overall team structure was so much better.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Adelaide have been recruiting ruck man quite often. They just haven't been as good as any other clubs...and they clog up the list to a ridiculous degree. When you have 14 injuries and 7 ruckmen your pretty damn screwed in player management.
I don't see how these two guys that setup clearances primarily for the opposition keep getting thrown in and pretending like they are doing fine.
taps to advantage go to a flat footed already tackled player, taps to disadvantage go the a free running player for the opponent.

How long since any of them have punched the damn ball somewhere other then the boundary...tapping it down does nothing to clear congestion the ball barely deflects from it's falling trajectory.

 

[arrowman]

...Ordinarily, I'd agree with the OP. We desperately need a 2nd ruckman, to provide Maric with relief and to allow Tippett to spend 100% of his time in the forward line. When that ruckman is likely to be Griffin.. I'd rather stick with the single ruckman option until Sellar becomes available.

Well I disagree - well, I agree that Griffin should not be the option. But I'd rather have McKernan, say, playing 2nd ruck, even if he's not as good as Tippett, because thrid-best ruckman + Tippett 100% in the forward line >>>>>>>> Tippett a part time forward.

IMHO

 

[Pariah]

Agreed. Griffin had 16 dispoals and 30 hit -outs today and kicked 2 goals.

 

[NTRabbit]

We HAD a ruckman did no where near enough to keep him.So no use complainng

You mean the guy who demanded an out to the Western Bulldogs, with no room for negotiation on staying, because he got pissy over receiving a punishment for being out after the leadership group imposed curfew?

Sure, it was entirely possible for us to keep him.

 

[ruscy002]

Ordinarily, I'd agree with the OP. We desperately need a 2nd ruckman, to provide Maric with relief and to allow Tippett to spend 100% of his time in the forward line. When that ruckman is likely to be Griffin.. I'd rather stick with the single ruckman option until Sellar becomes available.

Would still rather Griffin as backup than no backup at all...

We should bring McKernan and tell him that the second ruck spot is his to lose. He's had two very good SANFL games in the ruck and at this stage of his career, he surely couldn't be any worse than Sellar as a second ruck last year. What could we possibly have to lose at the moment?

 

[WALL-e]

Would still rather Griffin as backup than no backup at all...

I'm struggling to notice the difference.