Under The Pump in 2006

[hotpie]

Hall - Got to learn to use his huge frame to advantage. Theres a vacancy in defence with Wakes and Presti getting on if he's good enough. Doubt he is. This will be his third year - time to show something at Willy.

Walker - Got to learn to use his huge frame to advantage. Theres a vacancy in defence with Wakes and Presti getting on if he's good enough. Doubt he is.
Needs to be cut a bit of slack as his ankle last year was worse than we all thought. But still needs to deliver or he's out

Davis - Lucky to be on the list still. Will get passed by Egan and other youngsters in season 06 unless he performs

Richards - Form not an issue, injury is. Needs to stay injury free this year or the merit of keeping him comes into question

Lonie - needs to find a position to make his own or he's trade bait.

Iaccobucci - Could be in danger of having a very short career. Needs to make an impression in the Willy midfield.

J Cloke - had an excellent season in 05 (despite the selectors ignoring him), showing he has turned the corner. But if the bad C1 turns up to play instead of the good C1, he does not have a lot of credit points left.

Morrison - depends on the young kids. He was recruited for depth. If the young kids come good, he is no longer required for depth. The better our kids perform, the less we need Morrison.

These are the players who have the most to lose if they dont deliver this year, IMO.

 

[MarkT]

Agree with those. I’d add O’Bree & Lockyer simply because they should now be the front runners on the list and need to show more than they have. Cameron Cloke might be under the pump given our forward options and his shoulder problems. The ones you listed are the main ones though.

At least 5 players have to be cut each year so if, say, Lonie, Richards and Davis came good the search would have to start to go deeper into the experienced ranks. If O'Brien is to be elevated to the senior list then there will be a bit of pressure on quite a few players which is a good thing. The best thing that could happen would be for O'Brien to really stake a claim and a few of those you mentioned to fire.

 

[Murray]

Agree with both of the above posts.
I would think we will cut deeply again at the end of this year

 

[Coin_Toss]

Hall - Got to learn to use his huge frame to advantage. Theres a vacancy in defence with Wakes and Presti getting on if he's good enough. Doubt he is. This will be his third year - time to show something at Willy.

Walker - Got to learn to use his huge frame to advantage. Theres a vacancy in defence with Wakes and Presti getting on if he's good enough. Doubt he is.
Needs to be cut a bit of slack as his ankle last year was worse than we all thought. But still needs to deliver or he's out

Davis - Lucky to be on the list still. Will get passed by Egan and other youngsters in season 06 unless he performs

Richards - Form not an issue, injury is. Needs to stay injury free this year or the merit of keeping him comes into question

Lonie - needs to find a position to make his own or he's trade bait.

Iaccobucci - Could be in danger of having a very short career. Needs to make an impression in the Willy midfield.

J Cloke - had an excellent season in 05 (despite the selectors ignoring him), showing he has turned the corner. But if the bad C1 turns up to play instead of the good C1, he does not have a lot of credit points left.

Morrison - depends on the young kids. He was recruited for depth. If the young kids come good, he is no longer required for depth. The better our kids perform, the less we need Morrison.

These are the players who have the most to lose if they dont deliver this year, IMO.

I can't argue with that list.

Davis must find consisteny. He would be the first to be delisted if he can't.

 

[MarkT]

I'll have a crack at the post season result.
Out: Walker, Hall, Lonie, Burns (retired), Wakelin (retired)
In: O'Brien, draft picks round 1,2,3,4.

In the event Burns and Wakelin go around again, Iaccobucci and O'Bree to go.
Davis won't improve anything much but he'll stay.

 

[Murray]

I'll have a crack at the post season result.
Out: Walker, Hall, Lonie, Burns (retired), Wakelin (retired)
In: O'Brien, draft picks round 1,2,3,4.

In the event Burns and Wakelin go around again, Iaccobucci and O'Bree to go.
Davis won't improve anything much but he'll stay.

Only 5 Mark?
I think it will be more like 8 to go

 

[MarkT]

You may be right. I'm punting Richards to earn his keep & Jason Cloke to do enough as well. I can't see MM delisting Leon at all. Morrison will get another year no matter what IMO al-la Williams and O'Bree seems to get leeway and will probabluy have a couple of good games to retain his spot. I think 8 sounds about the right number myself but I think it will be less. I would have thrown Fanning into the mix myself but he'll be safe.

Who's your most likely 8 at this stage?

 

[manmountain]

Agree with those. I’d add O’Bree & Lockyer simply because they should now be the front runners on the list...

I think you'll find Lockyer is already a frontrunner.

I'm pretty sure nobody is Under the Pump in 2006 - if we don't play well, we'll simply employ an ex-Navy Seal or something to be seen to be doing something.

Remember - when Collingwood don't win, it's not the fault of the people we do have, it's the need to add in more people we don't have!

 

[dids4]

I'll have a crack at the post season result.
Out: Walker, Hall, Lonie, Burns (retired), Wakelin (retired)
In: O'Brien, draft picks round 1,2,3,4.

In the event Burns and Wakelin go around again, Iaccobucci and O'Bree to go.
Davis won't improve anything much but he'll stay.

i love reading your posts mark, but seriously....why make this post in bloody january!!

 

[hotpie]

I would not put O'Bree in the "under the pump" category. Lockyer yes. O'Bree's form in 2005 was close to career best. Admittedly his career best isnt that great, but it certainly good enough for him to warrant a gig for at least the next two seasons.

Also I think Wakes should have another year in him after the end of 2006. Buckley too (hopefully) so the only retirement is likely to be Burns.

Re the number of delistings - too early to tell. If we make the eight 5 is a possibility. Eight would be if we have a year as bad as last year.

Maybe they wont get rid of both Walker and Hall in the same year as they are similar types, and we lack key defenders.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Coin_Toss' list:

Hall (definite delisting next year if he can't improve)
Walker (must improve, possible delisting)
Lockyer (must find his pre-knee form, probably won't be delisted)
Davis (definite delisting if he can't find consistency)
Morrison (too slow for this level, definite delisting)
Lonie (he has talent, must display it. Possible delisting)
Iacobucci (doesn't break into the team he could be delisted)

I don't think Jason Cloke should be added to the list. He is the fittest i've ever seen him at, and he isn't as slow as some people think. I can see him challenge for that CHB position and take it.

 

[hotpie]

I don't think Jason Cloke should be added to the list. He is the fittest i've ever seen him at, and he isn't as slow as some people think. I can see him challenge for that CHB position and take it.

So can I. I still see a lot of Archer in him, in terms of his realtive lack of height, his courage, his mobility, and his marking strength (maybe not so much footskills!!). Personally I'm very confident about his career, more so than I am about Cam at present.

However if Jason Cloke plays like he did in 2003/4, he wont have a long shelf life.

 

[Murray]

You may be right. I'm punting Richards to earn his keep & Jason Cloke to do enough as well. I can't see MM delisting Leon at all. Morrison will get another year no matter what IMO al-la Williams and O'Bree seems to get leeway and will probabluy have a couple of good games to retain his spot. I think 8 sounds about the right number myself but I think it will be less. I would have thrown Fanning into the mix myself but he'll be safe.

Who's your most likely 8 at this stage?

Hall, Walker, Lonie, Morrison, Davis, J Cloke to be delisted or traded
Wakes, Burns to retire.

Other possible trades
Lockyer, O'Bree.

All up a possible 10.
I don't think we have finished our culling of the last two years, this year should see the end of it.

 

[hotpie]

Our long list of duds is slowly diminishing. Theres probably only one or two that could be considered total write-offs - I wont name them but theyknow who they are. In recent years we have entered the season with 5, 5 or 7 duds.

Thank heavens for small mercies.

(ps I cant see 10 sacked unless we win the wooden spoon).

 

[Nardz]

why's everyone so hard on iaccobucci. He was only drafted last year, he played a couple of games and done ok. Didnt do any more or less than we'd expect from someone of his physique and age.

he's under no more pressure than any other 2nd season draftee.

 

[hotpie]

why's everyone so hard on iaccobucci. He was only drafted last year, he played a couple of games and done ok. Didnt do any more or less than we'd expect from someone of his physique and age.

he's under no more pressure than any other 2nd season draftee.

Simple. He did not perform well enough for Willy.

Everybody in his year passed him by - Egan, Rusling, and T Cloke, plus Davies, O'Brien and Fanning from the rookie list. Last year in terms out output he probably only ended up ahead of Brayden Shaw, Billy Morrison and Zane Leonard. Another year like that and he wont get a third year. I have every faith that he'll play well enough in the VFL this season to deserve a third year. But we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Cool hand]

Are your comments on Iacobucci based on internal information from the Collingwood coaching staff, or are they based on your personal observation?

 

[hotpie]

Are your comments on Iacobucci based on internal information from the Collingwood coaching staff, or are they based on your personal observation?

get off our board

 

[Cool hand]

You are a fool..

 

[Jabso]

get off our board

Hahaha.

I rate The Booch and thought his year at Willy was solid with some great games. He will not be delisted this year, but will be under the pump coming into 2007 if he doesn't get enough games. He has alot more promise than alot of our previous draft picks and the fact that we actually had a good, deep draft full of good kids means people are wondering what was wrong with Yakka.

My possible delistings:

Davis - Should go if he doesn't have a good year, unless someone fails to step up in the forward pocket. Chances of being given the boot: 65%

Lonie - Needs to get in the game a bit more. - 50%

Morrison - What Hotpie said. It depends if he would overtake a spot of a good young midfielder that's ready to step up. - 55%

Walker - Has to get a regular game and show promies or he's gone - 80%

Richards - Has to prove fitness. - 50%

Lockyer - A lot like Morrison. 20%

O'Bree - See Lockyer - 20%

Cameron Cloke - Unlikely as he is a big key position player with development left in him. If his shoulder breaks down again or has a horrid year it could change though. - 10%

Jason Cloke - Needs to show he can hack it at afl level - chance 33.3333%.

Dane Swan - uhh ... I could happen but I don't think so 5%

THE BOOCH - No I don't think so. I'm not overrating him but most players are given 3 years to prove themselves. - 2.5%

Brent Hall - 90%. I don't think he is a pure dud like most people, but he needs to hurry up and get a few AFL games and show something at that level.

 

[Hard Yakka]

I'll have a crack at the post season result.
Out: Walker, Hall, Lonie, Burns (retired), Wakelin (retired)
In: O'Brien, draft picks round 1,2,3,4.

In the event Burns and Wakelin go around again, Iaccobucci and O'Bree to go.
Davis won't improve anything much but he'll stay.

Burns doesn't open a spot on the senior list as he's a veteran - as is Bucks. When either of them retire, it only opens up a rookie spot. Your original outs therefore only open up 4 spots.

I think we only have to delist 3, based on my understanding that you must draft three. I think 5 is more likely though as this allows for 3 draftees and the elevation of Harry with the last spot being for another draftee or rookie elevation.

 

[Murray]

Burns doesn't open a spot on the senior list as he's a veteran - as is Bucks. When either of them retire, it only opens up a rookie spot. Your original outs therefore only open up 4 spots.

I think we only have to delist 3, based on my understanding that you must draft three. I think 5 is more likely though as this allows for 3 draftees and the elevation of Harry with the last spot being for another draftee or rookie elevation.

That assumes there is no one old enough to replace him on the vets list
Jimmy will be 30 by then
Wakes if he goes around again
(perhaps not if the criterion is 10 years at the one club or 10 years in total)

 

[Johnson#26]

IMO there are plenty out there who are on possibly their final chance at Collingwood, and, for some, AFL football.

Make-or-break 2006:

-Leon Davis
-Ryan Lonie
-Chad Morrison
-Tristan Walker
-Guy Richards
-Jason Cloke
-Cameron Cloke
-Brent Hall

Must stand up and perform:
-Alan Didak
-Josh Fraser
-Chris Tarrant

Under the pump to retain place:
-Tarkyn Lockyer
-Shane O'Bree (the heat will be on)

Might be a little harsh on Cheesy O'Bree, but, otherwise, its now or never for so many. I was considering placing Julian Rowe up there, but regardless of what happens, he will be kept for 2007. Tarrant, Fraser and Didak MUST perform to their best for us to be a chance, while Lockyer could find himself under pressure. I like him, but he will have to work hard early to keep the wolves from the door.

 

[Johnson#26]

Dane Swan - uhh ... I could happen but I don't think so 5%

Swan is a hard one to assess. He is coming into, what some may find more than a tad surprising, his fifth season of AFL football. His first two were development seasons, with the son of Port Melbourne legend Bill cracking it for a game late in the 2003 season.

2004 and 2005 followed similar patterns to each other - coming into the side after about rounds four-six, and having a seven-eight week purple patch. He really does need to nail down a place in the side in 2006 - preferably across halfback, where, despite a somewhat awkward kicking style, he is prolific and effective.

 

[Lica]

"You may be right. I'm punting Richards to earn his keep & Jason Cloke to do enough as well. I can't see MM delisting Leon at all. Morrison will get another year no matter what IMO al-la Williams and O'Bree seems to get leeway and will probabluy have a couple of good games to retain his spot. I think 8 sounds about the right number myself but I think it will be less. I would have thrown Fanning into the mix myself but he'll be safe.

Who's your most likely 8 at this stage?"


What is it about Leon that makes people think that MM loves him sooo much that he wont delist him?? I have heard many people have the same opinion as you about Leon and I dont understand. His performances haven't warrented him staying on the list. We should have fought to have kept Scotland rather than keeping Leon.