MVP Votes v Cats 2020

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Xhoquelin

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4 May. Spoiled EVERYTHING. Didn't lose a one on one. Defense looked much sharper with him being a reliable hand down there.
4 Oliver. Just brilliant. So clean in a game where even Ablett was fumbling the footy. With him and Gussy in the middle, was confident we were winning, or halving every stoppage in the fourth quarter.
1 Maxy. Took some important grabs. 33 HOs.
1 Tomlinson. Got done HTB a few times, but holds his width so well. Some huge efforts. Good on him filling the hole at the back of the stoppages too.
1 TMac. That's a ******* modern full forward game. Just kept crashing packs and giving our forwards a chance at ground level. We only had one tall forward of centre the whole game, but TMac was just immense.
1 Hibbo big game, looked well sharper than he has been. Back in our best 18 playing like that.
 

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A11dAtP0w3R

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I can't in good faith give 12 votes, not happening.

2- Brayshaw
2- Hannan
2- Hibberd
1- Joel Smith
1- Trac (quiet but great when he did get it)
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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4 May. Spoiled EVERYTHING. Didn't lose a one on one. Defense looked much sharper with him being a reliable hand down there.
4 Oliver. Just brilliant. So clean in a game where even Ablett was fumbling the footy. With him and Gussy in the middle, was confident we were winning, or halving every stoppage in the fourth quarter.
1 Maxy. Took some important grabs. 33 HOs.
1 Tomlinson. Got done HTB a few times, but holds his width so well. Some huge efforts. Good on him filling the hole at the back of the stoppages too.
1 TMac. That's a ******* modern full forward game. Just kept crashing packs and giving our forwards a chance at ground level. We only had one tall forward of centre the whole game, but TMac was just immense.
1 Hibbo big game, looked well sharper than he has been. Back in our best 18 playing like that.
Mate, I don't want you to change your votes but Max and Oliver were ******* shithouse honestly, stat sheet means very little. Their impact was beyond pathetic.
 

Xhoquelin

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Mate, I don't want you to change your votes but Max and Oliver were ******* shithouse honestly, stat sheet means very little. Their impact was beyond pathetic.
Oliver was a monster inside. What did he actually do poorly? Maxy wasn't shithouse. He wasn't great, got sharked a bit(feel like a few of those weren't on Maxy), he's just reliable. Maxy was incredibly clean at ground level all game too in a game where not many were.

Are you being serious or just trying to troll? Defensively; Goody clearly wants us playing his stupid forward press; even Melksham and TMac didn't know where to go. Langdon was in no man's land and he's one of the best runners in the comp. I find it hard to get mad at Clarry for defensive efforts.

32 clearances to 23 vs Danger/Duncan/Parfitt/Selwood and co...who gets the credit for that?

Trac got a vote from you but he's played much better games. Its in a similar vein to giving Maxy a vote. Trac and Maxy could get votes every single game; they're both so composed and reliable, but today Trac was used forward and didn't really offer much. Trac is our best player though IMO and when he gets the footy good things happen, so I think we need Trac playing in the guts as much as possible.

But then you need to kick Viney out of the guts and the only guy who has the balls to say that is Topkent.
 
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saj_21

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4 May. Spoiled EVERYTHING. Didn't lose a one on one. Defense looked much sharper with him being a reliable hand down there.
4 Oliver. Just brilliant. So clean in a game where even Ablett was fumbling the footy. With him and Gussy in the middle, was confident we were winning, or halving every stoppage in the fourth quarter.
1 Maxy. Took some important grabs. 33 HOs.
1 Tomlinson. Got done HTB a few times, but holds his width so well. Some huge efforts. Good on him filling the hole at the back of the stoppages too.
1 TMac. That's a ******* modern full forward game. Just kept crashing packs and giving our forwards a chance at ground level. We only had one tall forward of centre the whole game, but TMac was just immense.
1 Hibbo big game, looked well sharper than he has been. Back in our best 18 playing like that.
3 marks to the tallest bloke on the ground and the only one that was important was the uncontested mark in the wing in the last 2 minutes
 

saj_21

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Oliver was a monster inside. What did he actually do poorly? Maxy wasn't shithouse. He wasn't great, got sharked a bit(feel like a few of those weren't on Maxy), he's just reliable. Maxy was incredibly clean at ground level all game too in a game where not many were.

Are you being serious or just trying to troll? Defensively; Goody clearly wants us playing his stupid forward press; even Melksham and TMac didn't know where to go. Langdon was in no man's land and he's one of the best runners in the comp. I find it hard to get mad at Clarry for defensive efforts.

32 clearances to 23 vs Danger/Duncan/Parfitt/Selwood and co...who gets the credit for that?

Trac got a vote from you but he's played much better games. Its in a similar vein to giving Maxy a vote. Trac and Maxy could get votes every single game; they're both so composed and reliable, but today Trac was used forward and didn't really offer much. Trac is our best player though IMO and when he gets the footy good things happen, so I think we need Trac playing in the guts as much as possible.

But then you need to kick Viney out of the guts and the only guy who has the balls to say that is Topkent.
Viney had 5 clearances so I’d give him credit
 

Xhoquelin

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Viney had 5 clearances so I’d give him credit
He did and his dare and willingness to break lines helped but his overall tunnel vision is such a liability next to guys like Oliver and Brayshaw+he wasn't clean enough today.

We'd be better off, now that Harmes is back in the middle, playing Trac full time mid, seeing as he is our best overall midfielder, and selecting another forward like Jacko or Weed.

Doesn't mean Viney is the guy that has to go, but maybe losing Hunt for Weed and moving Viney into a 50% forward, 50% wing/forward pocket role would give us a more optimal setup.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Oliver was a monster inside. What did he actually do poorly? Maxy wasn't shithouse. He wasn't great, got sharked a bit(feel like a few of those weren't on Maxy), he's just reliable. Maxy was incredibly clean at ground level all game too in a game where not many were.

Are you being serious or just trying to troll? Defensively; Goody clearly wants us playing his stupid forward press; even Melksham and TMac didn't know where to go. Langdon was in no man's land and he's one of the best runners in the comp. I find it hard to get mad at Clarry for defensive efforts.

32 clearances to 23 vs Danger/Duncan/Parfitt/Selwood and co...who gets the credit for that?

Trac got a vote from you but he's played much better games. Its in a similar vein to giving Maxy a vote. Trac and Maxy could get votes every single game; they're both so composed and reliable, but today Trac was used forward and didn't really offer much. Trac is our best player though IMO and when he gets the footy good things happen, so I think we need Trac playing in the guts as much as possible.

But then you need to kick Viney out of the guts and the only guy who has the balls to say that is Topkent.
Trac used the ball really well most of the time when he got while being tagged, set up a heap of our most promising build ups (not that any scores came of them) ..He's so far our best now it's not funny. Even in his quieter games he does some massively productive things. Max had some nobody to contend with and would have taken him to the cleaners two years ago. Just not having the same impact around the ground anymore.
 

Xhoquelin

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Trac used the ball really well most of the time when he got while being tagged, set up a heap of our most promising build ups (not that any scores came of them) ..He's so far our best now it's not funny. Even in his quieter games he does some massively productive things. Max had some nobody to contend with would have taken him to the cleaners two years ago. Just not having the same impact around the ground anymore.
Yea no qualms with the Trac comments. He is brilliant.

Maxy honestly is still doing stuff in the ruck. We shat on Pittonet but Pittonet has been a quality ruck so far this season; he's not Witts, but to me his actual ruckwork seems very very solid.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Maxy.
 

saj_21

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Votes were a tough one today. Very low possession count and low game time. Someone like Hannan seemed to have big Impact with limited opportunities. We are marking Gawn harshly but as one of the best rucks in the Comp he needs to have more impact outside of the ruck contest. 208cm and 3 marks.

3 - Brayshaw
2 - viney
2 - trac
1 - Hannan
1 - Tomlinson
1 - Oliver
1 - may
1 - hibered for cleaning up danger
 

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Xhoquelin

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Max used to take marks in the back and forward half plenty of times a week. You just don't see it anymore from him. We are really missing his airiel influence around the ground.
If teams don't actually kick it to him, how can he take marks.

Cats played it super slow and chipped it around for a reason. You never try to go through Maxy. David King talked about this 2 years ago IIRC(I'll try find the clip if I can" but Cats have actively avoided going down the line to Maxy for a few years now. The way to combat Maxy's intercept marking is either avoid hiim(like Cats did today) or play an extra ruck who will push Maxy under the footy(which Eagles did in 2018 PF with Vardy and Lycett)
 

saj_21

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He did and his dare and willingness to break lines helped but his overall tunnel vision is such a liability next to guys like Oliver and Brayshaw+he wasn't clean enough today.

We'd be better off, now that Harmes is back in the middle, playing Trac full time mid, seeing as he is our best overall midfielder, and selecting another forward like Jacko or Weed.

Doesn't mean Viney is the guy that has to go, but maybe losing Hunt for Weed and moving Viney into a 50% forward, 50% wing/forward pocket role would give us a more optimal setup.
i agree his kicking was poor and needed to take more ground before kicking but you asked who gets credit for the clearences I’m giving it to the guy with the second most on the ground and not taking him out of the midfield
 

Xhoquelin

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Votes were a tough one today. Very low possession count and low game time. Someone like Hannan seemed to have big Impact with limited opportunities. We are marking Gawn harshly but as one of the best rucks in the Comp he needs to have more impact outside of the ruck contest. 208cm and 3 marks.

3 - Brayshaw
2 - viney
2 - trac
1 - Hannan
1 - Tomlinson
1 - Oliver
1 - may
1 - hibered for cleaning up danger
I abhor how footy statistics are in such a primordial state. Such a change from basketball, and basketball analytics have along way to go too.

How many contests were there for Maxy to even influence, given the Cats barely went long down the line? How many times did Maxy not taking an intercept mark actually affect us, given May was spoiling everything?

Tmac didn't take 5 contested grabs but he did exactly what Hawkins Brown or Riewoldt would've done today, crash packs and take the one grab where he actually had a free run at the footy.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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If teams don't actually kick it to him, how can he take marks.

Cats played it super slow and chipped it around for a reason. You never try to go through Maxy. David King talked about this 2 years ago IIRC(I'll try find the clip if I can" but Cats have actively avoided going down the line to Maxy for a few years now. The way to combat Maxy's intercept marking is either avoid hiim(like Cats did today) or play an extra ruck who will push Maxy under the footy(which Eagles did in 2018 PF with Vardy and Lycett)
I'm not sure he's working as hard as he once was. I just don't see him in the arcs all that often. Maybe hes injured, or it's a directive (i wouldn't be surprised if Goody did something as stupid as this) .
 

saj_21

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I abhor how footy statistics are in such a primordial state. Such a change from basketball, and basketball analytics have along way to go too.

How many contests were there for Maxy to even influence, given the Cats barely went long down the line? How many times did Maxy not taking an intercept mark actually affect us, given May was spoiling everything?

Tmac didn't take 5 contested grabs but he did exactly what Hawkins Brown or Riewoldt would've done today, crash packs and take the one grab where he actually had a free run at the footy.
Spoiling is good but I much rather an intercept mark so we have possession. I tell you one time it hurt when the ball sailed through chest height and Gawn was laying flat on the ground.

The parfit goal in the third Gawn spoiled lever. So there is two times in my count

He is 208cm and needs to start playing like it.

sides may not kick long to him but doesn’t stop us from kicking it to him
 

Toump Ass

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Oliver was a monster inside. What did he actually do poorly?
Probably the greatest of all time as far as getting the ball and immediately handballing it to the nearest person goes, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few more tricks

At least when Viney gets the ball he'll take guys on and run with it. Thought he was mildly better than Oliver today.
 

Xhoquelin

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Spoiling is good but I much rather an intercept mark so we have possession. I tell you one time it hurt when the ball sailed through chest height and Gawn was laying flat on the ground.

The parfit goal in the third Gawn spoiled lever. So there is two times in my count

He is 208cm and needs to start playing like it.

sides may not kick long to him but doesn’t stop us from kicking it to him
May's spoils all either killed the footy or went to a teammate basically. In a game where many were struggling to take marks, I'd rather May just spoil it. Only Maxy, Hannan, Oliver and probably Trac looked remotely clean today. Many of them were 1 on 1 too. Rance is one of the best intercept guys in the comp but 1 on 1 he doesn't dick around, he kills the footy. Same with Tarrant/Davis/Talia. McGovern never plays on an opponent, so his intercept marks are often without any physical pressure on him, so he can float in 3rd man up.

The Esava goal I've addressed but he was bumped way before the kick, should be a blatant off the ball free kick but umps missed it, as they often do with those.

Gawn never plays forward too; he's always told to go behind the footy. Late game we went long to him and he got the crucial goal assist for TMac that put us in with a chance.
 

Xhoquelin

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I'm not sure he's working as hard as he once was. I just don't see him in the arcs all that often. Maybe hes injured, or it's a directive (i wouldn't be surprised if Goody did something as stupid as this) .
Was decent vs the Blues down back iirc second half. I can't ever question Max's work ethic. He's one of the few that runs back with urgency.
 

Xhoquelin

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Probably the greatest of all time as far as getting the ball and immediately handballing it to the nearest person goes, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few more tricks

At least when Viney gets the ball he'll take guys on and run with it. Thought he was mildly better than Oliver today.
Viney's tunnel vision wasn't as bad as usual today. I will say: Viney looks close to his best, and when he's at his best he is breaking lines and tackles, and he did that today.

I still prefer Trac/Gus/Oliver/Harmes as the primary midfielders, but Vines is pretty clearly best 18. Thought he was not only good around the clearances but even moreso in general play; his field kicking has been underrated for a while, got good hands overhead even though he isn't tall. Can get caught up trying to bomb it long too often but now that the whole team is lowering their eyes more, Vines is buying in.

But as long as he's lining up so often in the centre circle, I won't give him marks unless its a R1 like performance. Gets in the way of Clarry for mine; didn't happen today but countless times in the past Vines and Clarry have gone for the same footy.

He does seem to be learning how to play off Clarry too, and spreading better from stoppages; playing as more of the handball receive mid at stoppages rather than the guy at the coalface. This can only be a good thing.
 

saj_21

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May's spoils all either killed the footy or went to a teammate basically. In a game where many were struggling to take marks, I'd rather May just spoil it. Only Maxy, Hannan, Oliver and probably Trac looked remotely clean today. Many of them were 1 on 1 too. Rance is one of the best intercept guys in the comp but 1 on 1 he doesn't dick around, he kills the footy. Same with Tarrant/Davis/Talia. McGovern never plays on an opponent, so his intercept marks are often without any physical pressure on him, so he can float in 3rd man up.

The Esava goal I've addressed but he was bumped way before the kick, should be a blatant off the ball free kick but umps missed it, as they often do with those.

Gawn never plays forward too; he's always told to go behind the footy. Late game we went long to him and he got the crucial goal assist for TMac that put us in with a chance.
intercept marking is super important, spoiling is required but outdated. The side attacking is happy to see defenders punch the ball out and start again for a stoppage. Just because “no one” plays on McGovern doesn’t Make his intercept marking any less effective.

we need to see lever and may marking more, isn’t that why we traded for two defenders particularly lever for his intercept marking
 

Xhoquelin

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Spoiling is good but I much rather an intercept mark so we have possession. I tell you one time it hurt when the ball sailed through chest height and Gawn was laying flat on the ground.

The parfit goal in the third Gawn spoiled lever. So there is two times in my count

He is 208cm and needs to start playing like it.

sides may not kick long to him but doesn’t stop us from kicking it to him
Also I lose faith in debating here; Lever got two hands on the footy and just didn't hang onto it. Max had no influence on that goal.

Lever 100% needs to mark that footy though. I'll agree with that.

But do people want to discuss footy or just get narratives across.
 

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