Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

The video speaks for itself with or without Diesen's comment.

That video/tweet contains three things ; 1. a selfish orange coward belittling someone who genuinely cares for their country
2. Fox news - completely biased, basically russian/maga propanda.
3. Glenn Diesen - A russian puppet.

You are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[Mobbs]

So many members of US government are now umming and ahhing over the reality of who invaded who.

There's a part of me that fears these members are regularly checking how safe they are from any upstairs windows before they answer questions of this nature. The examples of hesitancy seem to mirror Russian dispute resolution tactics on the political stage.



View attachment Acyn on X- 'Crockett- Mr. President, guess what. Russia invaded Ukraine. Can we at least agree...mp4

 

[Mobbs]

donny and his minions just can't see that apart from putin the world is turning against them.
China is loving this.

Would BRICS welcome in the USA?

 

[Bloods86]

I was referring to Ilovethepies quoting Putin puppets without realising that are putin's puppets.

Yes, and I was referring to them probably not caring if they were or admiring them for it.

 

[wannabejack]

From [Denys Davydov TG]:
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels. Haltbakk has called on other European companies to refuse service to American forces.
View attachment 2238431

[subsequent post]
The shutdown may have already affected USS Virginia (SSN-774), which attempted to refuel in Norway today but turned around. (The Virginia class requires some marine diesel for its Caterpillar model 3512B V-12 auxiliary generator).

"I like it a lot"

 

[CD Xbow]

So many members of US government are now umming and ahhing over the reality of who invaded who.

There's a part of me that fears these members are regularly checking how safe they are from any upstairs windows before they answer questions of this nature. The examples of hesitancy seem to mirror Russian dispute resolution tactics on the political stage.



View attachment 2238448

Thanks for posting Mobbs. The republicans are spineless jellyfish and Mark Kelly could do a great Uncle Fester impersonation. I know I've said this before, but the current events are proving it so true - belief in the leaders lies is the first step to tyranny. That's how it starts, then the press get muzzled, the folks in positions to restrain the autocrat are removed, people start getting locked up or silenced in other ways, then before you know it you no longer have a democracy. I was dating a lady a little while ago and she accused of using clichés, so I am going to finish with another, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

 

[IlovethePies]

That video/tweet contains three things ; 1. a selfish orange coward belittling someone who genuinely cares for their country
2. Fox news - completely biased, basically russian/maga propanda.
3. Glenn Diesen - A russian puppet.

You are doing yourself a disservice.

The "selfish orange crowd" (I presume you mean Trump and his political entourage) happen to hold the presidency and happen to be formulating the new geopolitical line of the US government.

They represent the viewpoint of extremely powerful sections of the US capitalist class.

I hate Foxnews as well, but both your and my hatred for them does not dispel the fact that they are the mouthpiece of the current political forces who currently control the White House and decide US foreign policy.

You are others like you are not facing up to reality.

 

[IlovethePies]

Thanks for posting Mobbs. The republicans are spineless jellyfish and Mark Kelly could do a great Uncle Fester impersonation. I know I've said this before, but the current events are proving it so true - belief in the leaders lies is the first step to tyranny. That's how it starts, then the press get muzzled, the folks in positions to restrain the autocrat are removed, people start getting locked up or silenced in other ways, then before you know it you no longer have a democracy. I was dating a lady a little while ago and she accused of using clichés, so I am going to finish with another, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

So war hungry Democrats and genocide Joe are the ones we should trust instead? Which "good men" need to do something?

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

The "selfish orange crowd" (I presume you mean Trump and his political entourage) happen to hold the presidency and happen to be formulating the new geopolitical line of the US government.

They represent the viewpoint of extremely powerful sections of the US capitalist class.

I hate Foxnews as well, but both your and my hatred for them does not dispel the fact that they are the mouthpiece of the current political forces who currently control the White House and decide US foreign policy.

You are others like you are not facing up to reality.

That would be coward not crowd, and yes that is in reference to Donald J Trump.

No shit, Trump is the president of the USA. Of course they represent powerful sections of the US capatalist class.

Well, we are in agreement that we both hate fox news. And once again, no shit, of course they are a mouth piece for the forces that currently control the white house and decide US foreigh Policy. I.e they're propaganda.

You posted a tweet where the sources were Fox News, and Glenn Diesen.

Fox news as you agreed is a mouth piece, I.e propaganda. Glenn Diesen is known Russian propaganda. Nowadays, there about one in the same; Fox News, Russian Propaganda.

So that is the reality. You are basing your argument of propaganda. You posted that tweet and video to back up your argument. The sources you used were Fox News and Glenn Diesen. You're basing your argument on things that are not based in reality, that's the reality. Two sources of complete disinformation, propaganda, and non- reality.

 

[IlovethePies]

That would be coward not crowd, and yes that is in reference to Donald J Trump.

No shit, Trump is the president of the USA. Of course they represent powerful sections of the US capatalist class.

Well, we are in agreement that we both hate fox news. And once again, no shit, of course they are a mouth piece for the forces that currently control the white house and decide US foreigh Policy. I.e they're propaganda.

You posted a tweet where the sources were Fox News, and Glenn Diesen.

Fox news as you agreed is a mouth piece, I.e propaganda. Glenn Diesen is known Russian propaganda. Nowadays, there about one in the same; Fox News, Russian Propaganda.

So that is the reality. You are basing your argument of propaganda. You posted that tweet and video to back up your argument. The sources you used were Fox News and Glenn Diesen. Yare basing your argument on things that are not based in reality, that's the reality. Two sources of complete disinformation, propaganda, and non- reality.

Everything you read mate is propaganda of some kind. That is because we live in a society torn apart by hostile social classes. The point is, you need to have the necessary framework to make sense of it.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Everything you read mate is propaganda of some kind. That is because we live in a society torn apart by hostile social classes. The point is, you need to have the necessary framework to make sense of it.

There is bias, and there is propaganda. Fox news is the worst of the worst. And like I said, you're doing yourself a disservice by even quoting it.

 

[Mobbs]

It should also not be overlooked that a TASS rep somehow managed to attend the White House fracas. Apparently kindah just snuck in. Was eventually removed.

Trump admin kicks Russian state news agency out of Zelensky meeting

Earlier press pool reporters stated that a correspondent from TASS was being let into the Oval Office news conference.

www.newsweek.com

 

[IlovethePies]

There is bias, and there is propaganda. Fox news is the worst of the worst. And like I said, you're doing yourself a disservice by even quoting it.

...and that is where the framework is necessary.
If you are following events with an understanding of social classes and their interests, expressed in political programs and policy shifts, then foxnews (and its more intellectually highbrow counterpart, the WSJ) can be at times a good source of material to comprehend reality.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Visions]

From [Denys Davydov TG]:
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels. Haltbakk has called on other European companies to refuse service to American forces.
View attachment 2238431

[subsequent post]
The shutdown may have already affected USS Virginia (SSN-774), which attempted to refuel in Norway today but turned around. (The Virginia class requires some marine diesel for its Caterpillar model 3512B V-12 auxiliary generator).

Trump about to have a press conference announcning Norway will become the 52nd state after Canada.....

It should also not be overlooked that a TASS rep somehow managed to attend the White House fracas. Apparently kindah just snuck in. Was eventually removed.

http://[URL='https://www.newsweek.c...ncy-out-zelensky-meeting-2037970[/URL[/COLOR]

]

That was no mistake. No way anyone can sneak into the White Hose like that. AP and Reuters journalist were banned from the meeting, this Russian journalist was deliberately let in by Krasnov's sycophants, hoping that no one would notice with the aim of targeting Zelensky for their own gain. It was only after someone of the press corps recognised them, then Krasnov's subjects had to begrudgingly escort them out.

That's when Trump and Vance had to take it into their own hands to try and humiliate Zelensky.

 

[Visions]

Backlash continues against the US administration, this time within the USA itself by some of its citizens.

JD Vance had to be moved elsewhere because his family ski trip holiday in Vermont didn't go to plan due to pro Ukrainian protestors. Hopefully he does go to Russia to ski like the sign says....



More pro Ukrainian supporters outside President Musk's Tesla dealership in NY.

 

[JackFlash]

Trump and JD appear to have forgotten the Budapest Memorandum of 1994?

 

[Dirty Bird]

There is bias, and there is propaganda. Fox news is the worst of the worst. And like I said, you're doing yourself a disservice by even quoting it.

even worse than skynews?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Would BRICS welcome in the USA?

They won't be invited

 

[Aussie in exile]

Trump and JD appear to have forgotten the Budapest Memorandum of 1994?

They probably wasn't aware of it.

 

[wannabejack]

Trump and JD appear to have forgotten the Budapest Memorandum of 1994?

Possible consequences for future nuclear nonproliferation because certainty for any assurance given to US allies isn’t worth the paper it was written on.

… former prime minister Shinzo Abe argued that “Japan should break a longstanding taboo and hold an active debate on nuclear weapons …
...the invasion of Ukraine serves as a useful example of what can happen to countries that don't defend themselves properly against bigger, better armed and more aggressive neighbours.

 

[Aussie in exile]

even worse than skynews?

Light years worse.
Nobody of intelligence takes Fox news seriously.

 

[Mobbs]

Shouldn't the aluminum deal lead to the USA copping sanctions for trading with Russia?

 

[Aussie in exile]

So war hungry Democrats and genocide Joe are the ones we should trust instead? Which "good men" need to do something?

Why do you keep forgetting that if Russia hadn't illegally invaded Ukraine there wouldn't be a war

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Possible consequences for future nuclear nonproliferation because certainty for any assurance given to US allies isn’t worth the paper it was written on.

… former prime minister Shinzo Abe argued that “Japan should break a longstanding taboo and hold an active debate on nuclear weapons …
...the invasion of Ukraine serves as a useful example of what can happen to countries that don't defend themselves properly against bigger, better armed and more aggressive neighbours.

This was discussed on here a year or longer ago. Poland, Australia, Japan, Korea etc should now all seriously be considering Nuclear Weapons