Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Visions]

What a joke you are with your simplistic explanation.
Even you should be aware there are potential reasons for the difference in numbers during this particular exchange.

Russia seem to collect more Ukrainian bodies than their own. They just leave their dead on the battlefield without bothering to pick them up as first they don’t have a record of them dying and secondly that means they don’t have to pay their family out like say a TV.

 

[Visions]

If you look at the vision, there seems to be something fired from the wingman at the lead aircraft leading to it being taken out…….

 

[Mobbs]

Russian Su-25 jet reportedly crashes in Donetsk Oblast

A Russian SU-25 fighter jet reportedly crashed over Donetsk Oblast on June 13, Russian social media channels reported.

kyivindependent.com

Videos posted on social media of the purported crash by bloggers with close ties to the Russian Air Force appear to show the plane crashing into a field after closely being followed by another fighter jet. The circumstances of the crash remain unclear as rumours swirl of Russian 'friendly fire' as a potential cause of the crash.

Not friendly fire. It seems to be a malfunction

 

[Mobbs]

Just a bit of substance to the exchange of sick and severely wounded prisoners rather than some shallow remarks.

Ukrainian POWs are systematically tortured in Russian captivity and denied medical care, which constitutes a war crime. More than 95% of released Ukrainian POWs report experiencing torture, including physical beatings with metal rods, rebar and bricks, electrocution, forced nudity, and psychological abuse. In contrast, Ukrainian authorities provide the UN with unrestricted access to POW camps with Russian prisoners and maintain conditions compliant with humanitarian law.

Also, Russian milbloggers suggest many of the Ukrainian dead are civilians.

 

[Mobbs]

Your country could be in a bit of trouble now as Iran wont be able to supply the missiles to them as they have with them inder attack from Israel and them missles being used to attack Israel.

Unfortunately, the RF have multiple avenues to drone production and can even produce their own Shahed without Iran's involvement.
They essentially r*ped Iran.

 

[Not Important]

anyone surprised? anyone?

 

[Smeg Head]

Unfortunately, the RF have multiple avenues to drone production and can even produce their own Shahed without Iran's involvement.
They essentially r*ped Iran.

Iran knowingly and willingly sold those weapons and the expertise to build their own. I hope the iranian regime all dies horribly. Absolute cowards helping to murder innocents in a third country.

 

[wannabejack]

 

[Chief]

Oh .. he’s back
Must have recovered from the embarrassment of operation spiderweb

The Monero started flowing to the Russian web brigades again. Dunno what could have interrupted the payments.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Thanks
Good video

 

[Mobbs]

As most of you know, I am a basic lardarse ****wit aussie who happens to have a bunch of mates in Russia. My closest connection, though, is through Ukraine.
I just want to share this one clip of a pop song out of Russia. Its not fascist, or anti-fascist, its not shit. Its just a song.
Russia will slaughter everyone they need to, to achieve their goals. 1 million people is nothhing, if they can oppress 30 million into their service.
A song from a country. That's all it ought to be. Russians should be able to be people.

 

[barreness]

From other articles.
Despite tensions, both sides have agreed in principle to exchange up to 6,000 bodies and prioritise the release of sick and severely wounded prisoners of war, as well as those under the age of 25.

It's an all for all exchange. Russia has 6k bodies, Ukraine does not.

The body exchanges have basically always been skewed heavily

 

[barreness]

What a joke you are with your simplistic explanation.
Even you should be aware there are potential reasons for the difference in numbers during this particular exchange.

The reason is quite obvious I would have thought. Russia is taking ground and Ukraine can't get their bodies out as they retreat

 

[barreness]

Just a bit of substance to the exchange of sick and severely wounded prisoners rather than some shallow remarks.

Ukrainian POWs are systematically tortured in Russian captivity and denied medical care, which constitutes a war crime. More than 95% of released Ukrainian POWs report experiencing torture, including physical beatings with metal rods, rebar and bricks, electrocution, forced nudity, and psychological abuse. In contrast, Ukrainian authorities provide the UN with unrestricted access to POW camps with Russian prisoners and maintain conditions compliant with humanitarian law.

Can you link this? not that it would be surprising.

Old UN article june 2023
https://ukraine.un.org/en/224744-un...atment-prisoners-war-and-overall-human-rights

Our team interviewed more than 400 prisoners of war, approximately 200 on each side. Ukraine provided us with unimpeded confidential access to official places of internment of Russian prisoners of war. The Russian Federation did not give us access. However, we were able to carry out confidential interviews with Ukrainian POWs upon their release.


I will start with Russian prisoners of war in the hands of Ukraine. We are deeply concerned about the summary execution of up to 25 Russian POWs and persons hors de combat by Ukrainian armed forces which we have documented. This was often perpetrated immediately upon capture on the battlefield. While we are aware of ongoing investigations by Ukrainian authorities into five cases involving 22 victims, we are not aware of any prosecutions of the perpetrators.


Almost half of the 229 Russian POWs who we interviewed spoke of being tortured or ill-treated by members of Ukrainian armed forces and the SBU, and to a lesser extent penitentiary staff. The majority of these cases occurred during the initial stages of apprehension and interrogation. POWs were beaten, shot in the legs, stabbed in their limbs, electrocuted, subjected to mock executions, threats of sexual violence or death. In permanent places of internment, such as pre-trial facilities, or the POW camp, reports of mistreatment were significantly less. We still received, however, complaints of beatings in some of these facilities in Dnipro, Vinnytsia and Kharkiv last spring.........
In relation to the treatment of Ukrainian prisoners of war, we are also deeply concerned by the summary execution of 15 Ukrainian prisoners of war shortly after being captured by Russian armed forces. The Wagner Group military and security contractors perpetrated 11 of these executions.


Of the 203 Ukrainian POWs that we interviewed, 67 per cent fell into the hands of Russian forces after their surrender was negotiated by commanders. In these cases, we saw better protection for them at the beginning of their captivity.


However, the majority of Ukrainian prisoners of war who were captured during battle were tortured or ill-treated before internment. Members of Russian armed forces and the Russian Security Service tortured and ill-treated them to extract military information, to intimidate or humiliate them, or as a form of retribution. Forms of torture included beating, electrocution, or in several cases, being shot or stabbed in the legs. Mock executions were also common. The report describes one case, where a POW died from injuries within hours after he was tortured.


Conditions for many Ukrainian prisoners of war were shocking. A prisoner of war we spoke to told us – and I quote - “We were provided with just enough food to keep us alive”. Access to medical care was often insufficient, or unavailable, sometimes leading to dire consequences. The report documents that five of them died in internment reportedly due to the lack of medical attention.

 

[barreness]

Your country could be in a bit of trouble now as Iran wont be able to supply the missiles to them as they have with them inder attack from Israel and them missles being used to attack Israel.

Pretty sure they don't supply missiles in any quantity to Russia. The main thing was tech transfer for the shahed drones, who knows what Russia gave them back

 

[barreness]

Russia seem to collect more Ukrainian bodies than their own. They just leave their dead on the battlefield without bothering to pick them up as first they don’t have a record of them dying and secondly that means they don’t have to pay their family out like say a TV.

Ukraine does pay a lot more in death compensation to the family. Something like 350k to 120k US dollars, they are volunteers though

 

[barreness]

The Monero started flowing to the Russian web brigades again. Dunno what could have interrupted the payments.

Hey man, I'm on the dole.

It's your tax dollars that are funding me.......if you pay tax, you can be honest with me master chef, is bigfooty Panama based?

 

[Chief]

Hey man, I'm on the dole.

I'm sure that's what the handbook tells you to say

 

[Nothing]

I hope you're disclosing your income on your Centrelink fortnightly lodgement.

 

[OneGreatClub]

The reason is quite obvious I would have thought. Russia is taking ground and Ukraine can't get their bodies out as they retreat

No it is not obvious.
Try harder

 

[OneGreatClub]

Hey man, I'm on the dole.

It's your tax dollars that are funding me.......if you pay tax, you can be honest with me master chef, is bigfooty Panama based?

Ah, so that crypto comes in handy

 

[OneGreatClub]

Always meddling. Always the aggressor.

 

[wannabejack]

Can you link this? not that it would be surprising.

Old UN article june 2023
https://ukraine.un.org/en/224744-un...atment-prisoners-war-and-overall-human-rights

Our team interviewed more than 400 prisoners of war, approximately 200 on each side. Ukraine provided us with unimpeded confidential access to official places of internment of Russian prisoners of war. The Russian Federation did not give us access. However, we were able to carry out confidential interviews with Ukrainian POWs upon their release.


I will start with Russian prisoners of war in the hands of Ukraine. We are deeply concerned about the summary execution of up to 25 Russian POWs and persons hors de combat by Ukrainian armed forces which we have documented. This was often perpetrated immediately upon capture on the battlefield. While we are aware of ongoing investigations by Ukrainian authorities into five cases involving 22 victims, we are not aware of any prosecutions of the perpetrators.


Almost half of the 229 Russian POWs who we interviewed spoke of being tortured or ill-treated by members of Ukrainian armed forces and the SBU, and to a lesser extent penitentiary staff. The majority of these cases occurred during the initial stages of apprehension and interrogation. POWs were beaten, shot in the legs, stabbed in their limbs, electrocuted, subjected to mock executions, threats of sexual violence or death. In permanent places of internment, such as pre-trial facilities, or the POW camp, reports of mistreatment were significantly less. We still received, however, complaints of beatings in some of these facilities in Dnipro, Vinnytsia and Kharkiv last spring.........
In relation to the treatment of Ukrainian prisoners of war, we are also deeply concerned by the summary execution of 15 Ukrainian prisoners of war shortly after being captured by Russian armed forces. The Wagner Group military and security contractors perpetrated 11 of these executions.


Of the 203 Ukrainian POWs that we interviewed, 67 per cent fell into the hands of Russian forces after their surrender was negotiated by commanders. In these cases, we saw better protection for them at the beginning of their captivity.


However, the majority of Ukrainian prisoners of war who were captured during battle were tortured or ill-treated before internment. Members of Russian armed forces and the Russian Security Service tortured and ill-treated them to extract military information, to intimidate or humiliate them, or as a form of retribution. Forms of torture included beating, electrocution, or in several cases, being shot or stabbed in the legs. Mock executions were also common. The report describes one case, where a POW died from injuries within hours after he was tortured.


Conditions for many Ukrainian prisoners of war were shocking. A prisoner of war we spoke to told us – and I quote - “We were provided with just enough food to keep us alive”. Access to medical care was often insufficient, or unavailable, sometimes leading to dire consequences. The report documents that five of them died in internment reportedly due to the lack of medical attention.

Beatings and electric shocks. UN finds Ukraine and Russia tortured PoWs

Prisoners held by both sides in Russia's war in Ukraine have been subjected to torture, including beatings, electric shocks, and humiliating treatment while naked, UN investigators have said.

www.abc.net.au

...she said the abuse meted out by Russian captors was more "systematic".

Mistreatment of the Russian PoWs by the Ukrainians was "not systematic", she said, adding that the riskiest time appeared to be at the moment of capture and during transport.
"Once they were in places of internment, for the most part, they were treated adequately," she said.

Ms Bogner highlighted the need for accountability for such abuse, and hailed that Ukraine had launched a number of criminal investigations targeting members of its armed forces accused of abuse against prisoners.

From Moscow Times article
Russian prison authorities are systematically torturing Ukrainian civilians…

 

[Aussie in exile]

Always meddling. Always the aggressor.

More deaths of russian soldiers coming up all for putins ego.
Little man syndrome

 

[Visions]

More deaths of russian soldiers coming up all for putins ego.
Little man syndrome

Dont forget the poor donkeys hauling the troops and ammo in all this.