warnock

[rgauci]

Armfield + pick 6 = Warnock + pick 21

 

[Bluebear]

I just can't see how he will get to us.

The Dees are keen on him and have a bonus pick in the teens they can use if it comes to a trade.

We shouldn't use pick 24 for him as with any luck a good young KPP forward may slip to this pick and that is a much greater need than Warnock, who really won't offer the "Dominant ruck" we think we need right now.

While I really don't want White, I'd rather draft him to take some punishment if thats what we need, keep the picks and Warnock can take his chances at the Dees.

Patience is required.

 

[Bluebear]

Armfield + pick 6 = Warnock + pick 21

Comedian?

Try Blackwell + 40 for Warnock.

 

[thylacine60]

Armfield + pick 6 = Warnock + pick 21

Army has made quite an impact with Carlton people in a very short time. I for one really see a future for him. tb69 and family would probably organize a protest march up Royal Parade if we moved him on. I'd go.

 

[jonoman89]

Armfield + pick 6 = Warnock + pick 21

Lol. Not even your club would accept as shit a trade as that in our position.

Warnock is NOT worth a 2nd round pick to us.

Why do you all think he is capable of leading the ruck next year? He doesn't win many taps at all. Cloke already wins more.

NOT a needed player. Get White/Brogan/Lade or whoever PSD for free and let Kreuze and Hammo develop.

The overrating of Warnock really amazes me.

 

[rgauci]

Lol. Not even your club would accept as shit a trade as that in our position.

Warnock is NOT worth a 2nd round pick to us.

Why do you all think he is capable of leading the ruck next year? He doesn't win many taps at all. Cloke already wins more.

NOT a needed player. Get White/Brogan/Lade or whoever PSD for free and let Kreuze and Hammo develop.

The overrating of Warnock really amazes me.

You haven't seen much of Warnock if you think Cloke is more capable of leading the ruck. Warnock wins 8 hitouts while spending 25% of the time in the ruck playing 2nd fiddle to Sandilands. It would double/triple if he lead the ruck.

The overrating of picks has become pathological.

Pick 6 for the last decade:

David Myers
Mitch Thorp
Beau Dowler
Tom Williams
Keplar Bradley
Steven Salopek
Ashley Sampi
Dylan Smith
Damian Cupido
Murray Vance

I didn't think Carlton needed a ruckman, maybe the club knows that Hampson will be moving to queensland in a year or two.

If the club knows it will need a ruckman then it'll either trade for one, or draft one. If it drafts one with its 1st round selection at 6. Will that ruckman be better than Warnock? If it drafts one in the 2nd round, will that ruckman be better than Warnock?

1st round: 50/50
2nd round: extremely unlikely.

Therefore in my eyes, Warnock is worth a late 1st rounder.

Say what you will but if Carlton decide they need a ruckman, one won't just materialize at the club.

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

You haven't seen much of Warnock if you think Cloke is more capable of leading the ruck. Warnock wins 8 hitouts while spending 25% of the time in the ruck playing 2nd fiddle to Sandilands. It would double/triple if he lead the ruck.

The overrating of picks has become pathological.

Pick 6 for the last decade:

David Myers
Mitch Thorp
Beau Dowler
Tom Williams
Keplar Bradley
Steven Salopek
Ashley Sampi
Dylan Smith
Damian Cupido
Murray Vance

I didn't think Carlton needed a ruckman, maybe the club knows that Hampson will be moving to queensland in a year or two.

If the club knows it will need a ruckman then it'll either trade for one, or draft one. If it drafts one with its 1st round selection at 6. Will that ruckman be better than Warnock? If it drafts one in the 2nd round, will that ruckman be better than Warnock?

1st round: 50/50
2nd round: extremely unlikely.

Therefore in my eyes, Warnock is worth a late 1st rounder.

Say what you will but if Carlton decide they need a ruckman, one won't just materialize at the club.

I, for one, think that you make a fair point. I actually raised the same point in another thread by asking whether people thought we'd be getting decent value if we traded our pick 6 for Brent Prismall. That was shot down pretty quickly, but if you look at Carlton's recent history in terms of using picks lower than 1 or 2 you'll see pretty quickly that Brent Prismall would be better than any of them - exhibit A: Trent Sporn, Simon Wiggins, Murray Vance, Luke Livingstone, Jordan Russell, Adam Hartlett.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

As much as I love the kid, I will give you a straight swap for Blackwell. Not sure he'll get his chances at Carlton, so I want to give his AFL career a chance at another club. We need to give something to get something and we have midfielders.

I sincerely hope for your sake that this entire post is a joke.

What exactly is it about Blackwell that you 'love'? Hasn't even been close to a senior game all season, and is a more of a certainty than Devil Moon in the 5th at Flemington tomorrow to be delisted.

And you are suggesting that Warnock, one of the most promising young ruckmen I have EVER seen (those writing him off clearly haven't actually seen him play - his mobility is truly scary, will be an absolute star), could be traded for Blackwell?

Oh wait, I just remembered which club we'd be negotiating with...

Play on.

 

[Bluebear]

look at Carlton's recent history in terms of using picks lower than 1 or 2 you'll see pretty quickly that Brent Prismall would be better than any of them - exhibit A: Trent Sporn, Simon Wiggins, Murray Vance, Luke Livingstone, Jordan Russell, Adam Hartlett.

I would have thought recent history would include Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Austin, Armfield, Browne, Anderson......and that we have not done too badly. Even Fisher and Simpson as late picks are more recent than those "recent" selections you have listed.

Vance? Was that like 94 or something?

Please.

Prismall is a good player......will he be as good in a a team that isn't the Cats?
Shot down again?

 

[HBF]

Armfield + pick 6 = Warnock + pick 21

Oh yeah, that's fair!
Warnock couldn't even get a game until half way through the year. Warnock wants out, so you'll have to take the best offer.

 

[chook2734]

Lol. Not even your club would accept as shit a trade as that in our position.

Warnock is NOT worth a 2nd round pick to us.

Why do you all think he is capable of leading the ruck next year? He doesn't win many taps at all. Cloke already wins more.

NOT a needed player. Get White/Brogan/Lade or whoever PSD for free and let Kreuze and Hammo develop.

The overrating of Warnock really amazes me.

The funny thing is, most Freo supporters (and Freo the club) don't think he is. It appears that both Melbourne and Carlton do.

 

[jonoman89]

You haven't seen much of Warnock if you think Cloke is more capable of leading the ruck. Warnock wins 8 hitouts while spending 25% of the time in the ruck playing 2nd fiddle to Sandilands. It would double/triple if he lead the ruck.

Im not saying he's worse than Cloke at all, im just saying he is a young ruckman who isn't use to playing 80% game time. His hitout etc. stats wouldnt multiply at the same rate as his game time. He has shown very little at AFL level thus far, he just has a lot of potential. The question is, what is that potential worth?

Picks are gaining increasing value, especially with the new teams coming in. Most sides these days would rather an early (under #5) pick rather than an established good player. 3 years ago Judd would have commanded our #1 pick without a doubt, not these days though - Hawthorn has shown what you can do with a lot of good picks all reach their peak at the same time. We will do the same, and so will Richmond.

Will that ruckman be better than Warnock? If it drafts one in the 2nd round, will that ruckman be better than Warnock?

We already have 2 very good ruckman on our lists - Kreuzer will be a gun, and Hampson has an enormous leap and all the athletic attributes to suggest he will be very good. They both just need time and to develop bigger bodies.

We'd get a similar result long-term by drafting White and allowing the other two to develop at their own pace.

Therefore in my eyes, Warnock is worth a late 1st rounder.

We are both biased in saying what Warnock is worth. I would give an absolute max of pick 20 or so and a player. you would want a 1st round pick. I haven't seen a neutral support say hes worth anything more than a 2nd rounder though.

Pick 24 would be my offer. But then again, i'd rather keep that pick and draft the best available CHF.

 

[rgauci]

Warnock's highest game time was against Essendon this year. Statistically it was his best game winning 17 possessions and having 10 hitouts. He spent the majority of the game on the field because we had 1 spot on the bench for the whole last quarter. 3 players were injured before 3/4 time.

He still only rucked 1/3 of the game. Sandilands wasn't one of the guys injured.

The most hitouts he has achieved in a game was in late 2007 when Sandilands was out injured. He won 16 hitouts against Carlton.

Warnock hurt his back in the preseason. He got games based on reputation in rounds 3 and 4 and didn't perform. He was subsequently dropped to the WAFL. He didn't get the gametime he deserved at his WAFL club because they also had Seaby who West Coast had dropped.

He got disgruntled as this point as he was playing 50% WAFL time and not doing very well.

When he started to show form Harvey brought him back to the senior spot. At this point Kepler Bradley had been playing backup ruck. Kepler had been doing well, not winning hitouts but his around the ground work was good. He had kicked at least a goal a game playing backup ruckman.

Warnock came in and was given limited time in the ruck. He was started at full forward several times without kicking goals, though he helped Pavlich and Tarrant create mismatches up the ground.

His work up forward was more or less a failure though it manufactured goals for other players. He rarely contributed to the scoreboard. His work in the centre square was very very good. He won an average of 3 clearances a game in his limited time.

Warnock has always been disgruntled with the amount of time on the ball he got. The coach started to experiment with putting Sandilands forward which looked better than Warnock forward. Sandi was marking it, but spraying his kicks. Warnock was holding his own and this combo of 50/50 ruck time with Sandi making cameo's forward looked very potent.

Robbie then hurt his shoulder, Sandi took over the workload, Warnock went for surgery. And we are sitting here waiting to see where he'll play.

Hes 206cm tall. He's got an arm span equal with Sandilands and a decent leap. He is still undersized in my opinion to lead a ruck. But he doesn't think so.

He was an absolute stick when he arrived at the club.

http://www.jamd.com/search?assettype=g&assetid=55828076&text=robert+warnock

He's put on an amazing amount of weight in his time at the club. Most supporters think he should spend another season or two playing second fiddle before he's physically ready.

I agree with you in essence. Not sure why Carlton are a part of the negotiations. You have two young ruckman (hamp + kreuz) and a mature age filler (Cloke). You could get a White to bridge a year gap. The only reasoning i think Carlton keep coming into calculations is the club thinks Hampson is leaving.

So if, and thats a big IF, your club decides it needs a ruckman. Warnock is one of the best available.

From the last 5 drafts how many ruckman would be classed better than Warnock:

2007 draft:
Kreuzer

2006 draft:
Leuenberger

2005 draft:
???

2004 draft:
Ivan Maric (only recently hit form)

2003 draft:
????

He's definately in the top 5 ruckman drafted in the last 5 years. Just showing you ruckman aren't found easily.

Honestly i hope he stays, a ruck pair of Sandilands/Warnock is the best in the league. Sandi got worked over by King and Kosi when Warnock was missing. All freo need to do is concentrate on keeping their current players and drafting midfielders.

 

[BlueYoss]

I just can't see how he will get to us.

The Dees are keen on him and have a bonus pick in the teens they can use if it comes to a trade.

Melbourne will drive up his price to the extent that it would be remiss of us to keep bidding. They also have #1 PSD pick as insurance.

The overrating of picks has become pathological.

Pick 6 for the last decade:

David Myers....

Previous drafts have nothing to do with the upcoming strong draft. In all likelihood pick 6 will get us Hurley, Ziebell or Hartlett (if not someone better who would have been expected to go higher) and that is what you have to consider when evaluating pick 6 2008, not past draft (blunder)s.

Another thing to consider:

Picks are gaining increasing value, especially with the new teams coming in. Most sides these days would rather an early (under #5) pick rather than an established good player. 3 years ago Judd would have commanded our #1 pick without a doubt, not these days though - Hawthorn has shown what you can do with a lot of good picks all reach their peak at the same time. We will do the same, and so will Richmond.

 

[BlueYoss]

I would have thought recent history would include Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Austin, Armfield, Browne, Anderson......and that we have not done too badly. Even Fisher and Simpson as late picks are more recent than those "recent" selections you have listed.

In recent times Fish and Simmo have been in favour with the supporters so their success as such late draft picks is well publicised, Hoops was a favourite whipping boy so people tend to forget that he was pick 73!!

Now that Hoops seems to be winning some support back and Fish and to a lesser extent Simmo are being questioned more, I think it's time Hoops joins the club of great value late draft picks

 

[pinkus maximus]

argh. i hate these trade discussions because a) none of us are doing the dealing and b) neither side can agree what would be a fair trade. my 2c, guys like warnock don't grow on trees and they do have currency. offers of second rd picks just wont cut it in the end IMO!

 

[Blue Dawn]

How I'd love it if someone who knew - really knew - whether a player will make it or not, would watch Sammy for 3 games turn to Ratts and just say "yes" or "no". Not feasible I know but crikey if ever a player has had mixed reviews it's this big fella. Oh well.

Agreed. Wonder, if we do decide that Jacobs won't make it, if we just might consider a 2nd rounder for Warnock. Would probably prefer a player swap with maybe Bentick an attractive option for Freo.

 

[HBF]

Agreed. Wonder, if we do decide that Jacobs won't make it, if we just might consider a 2nd rounder for Warnock. Would probably prefer a player swap with maybe Bentick an attractive option for Freo.

Why would we put 2 years worth of development into Jacobs, and then cut him off our list. He has improved out of sight over the past 2 years, and should be given a chance on our senior list.

 

[[ToTTi]]

Pass.

Elevate Jacobs who has improved immensely this year and is probably the most natural ruckman on our list. Another pre-season into Hammo, with an un-interrupted start to the year, a full pre-season in Special K, and our rucks won't look that bad.

Hampson and Jacobs could prove a very formidable ruck duo in the years to come in my opinion. One leaps into orbit at centre bounces and the other reads the play well and is good around the ground.

Looking forward I'd like to see more of Special K and Cloke in the forward line rather than in the ruck, but for next year at least one of the them will be part of the ruck rotation.

If we were to look at trading, I would like to look at trading for a young KPP starved of opportunities, say a Thorp, Dowler, even Gamble. Otherwise, keep the picks.

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this but I wouldn't mind trading for Crowley from the Dockers. Not sure on his contract details and whatnot but he's the type you'd prefer on your side, not the oppositions. A good tagger would be very handy. Just throwing it out there, so settle down.

 

[OZBomb]

Pass.

Elevate Jacobs who has improved immensely this year and is probably the most natural ruckman on our list. Another pre-season into Hammo, with an un-interrupted start to the year, a full pre-season in Special K, and our rucks won't look that bad.

Sam Jacobs has improved, but he's too slow to ever be an AFL level ruckman. I think you'll find we delist him this year.

 

[Blue Dawn]

Why would we put 2 years worth of development into Jacobs, and then cut him off our list. He has improved out of sight over the past 2 years, and should be given a chance on our senior list.

You obviously didn't note the 'IF' did you HBF? Mentioned it in the context of our interest in drafting Warnock being heightened by us seeing two rucks depart. It wasn't a commentary on Sammy as i've seen nowhere near enough of him this season to pass informed comment. Do you think he's a lock for elevation?

 

[[ToTTi]]

Sam Jacobs has improved, but he's too slow to ever be an AFL level ruckman. I think you'll find we delist him this year.

I hope you're wrong, hopefully he gets a chance. I'd get rid of: Ackland, Saddington, Aisake, Benjamin, Blackwell and Jackson all before I decided not to give Sammy a spot on the senior list.

He can work on his fitness over another pre-season, and you can never take away his footy smarts, so I say persist.

Jacobs' footy brain + Hammo's body = SUPERruckMAN

 

[j-ham]

I don't think we have to worry about speculative trading for Warnock, from what I've heard, there's a few people in the footy department that aren't overly enthusiastic about him wearing the navy blue.