We are ruining Houli

[Kong]

As I've said previously, and although he is growing on me, Stanton is given a free ride by the vast majority of Essendon supporters. Stanton's disposal is atrocious.

Well it's not.

Not anymore.

 

[The Donners]

Well it's not.

Not anymore.

He still can't hit a target by foot. Compare it the use of the ball by foot in Hawthorn's midfield and he'd be behind all of them, ditto Geelong, Brisbane, Carlton etc. etc.

edit: might be one of Essendon's best kicks though...

 

[pazza]

Sorry Bachar but, here's your boarding pass....do you know the way to Coolangatta?

 

[Kong]

He still can't hit a target by foot.

He can and he does. Admittedly he does shank one from time to time, but his disposal's improved out-of-sight. The only qualm I have about his game is his often refusal to stay on his man going the other way.

Compare it the use of the ball by foot in Hawthorn's midfield and he'd be behind all of them, ditto Geelong, Brisbane, Carlton etc. etc.

Geelong are amazing, but having said that, I don't think you'd see Stanton shank many at all with the support he'd have there. Black is known to have off-kicks, much like Stants and Watson. Carlton? McLean, Murphy and Carazzo say hello. Heck, even Judd shanks a kick from time to time, and he'd be one of the most reliable in-play kicks in the comp.

edit: might be one of Essendon's best kicks though...

Pay that

 

[yaco55]

I agree, Houli isn't playing well either.



The bad outweighs the good, he made a negative impact on the game.



I would.



He rarely plays on forwards. He plays at half back on players that are rotating through.



Other than Milne last year, where he did do a pretty good job, when has Houli played on a forward of the quality that Slattery does, and beaten him?

Houli plays on blokes that are rotating through, not the best in the business.
For all of Slattery's failings, I'd still prefer him on the likes of Steve Johnson, Le Cras, Didak etc.

Would you really be confident in Houli beating Didak on Anzac Day?

Happy to get rid of Slattery if there was a better option, Houli isn't it. Gets lost in traffic far too easily.
Would try Tyson Slattery or Hartingham there first.

Do you watch the games.

Played on the first gamer Hams last week, Yarran the week before - Hardly players that rotate through the midfield.

And i forgot about Milne of StKilda - Leading midfielder in the game !

 

[yaco55]

He can and he does. Admittedly he does shank one from time to time, but his disposal's improved out-of-sight. The only qualm I have about his game is his often refusal to stay on his man going the other way.Geelong are amazing, but having said that, I don't think you'd see Stanton shank many at all with the support he'd have there. Black is known to have off-kicks, much like Stants and Watson. Carlton? McLean, Murphy and Carazzo say hello. Heck, even Judd shanks a kick from time to time, and he'd be one of the most reliable in-play kicks in the comp.Pay that

Stanton's diposal by foot is fine if he has time - But unfortunately the modern game doesnt give you much time - His foot disposal is average for a midifielder

 

[Longy413]

Do you watch the games.

The old, someone disagrees with me, he mustn't watch footy chestnut.
Well done, I expected better.

Played on the first gamer Hams last week, Yarran the week before - Hardly players that rotate through the midfield.

And i forgot about Milne of StKilda - Leading midfielder in the game !

I mentioned Milne.

Hams did go into the midfield and Yarran often spends time on the wing.
And they are players that rotate through, they aren't forwards that are lynch pins to the setup of their forward line.
Regardless, my central point was the following -

when has Houli played on a forward of the quality that Slattery does, and beaten him?

A point you have so kindly defended by listing a first gamer and the all conquering Yarran as the opponents. And whilst it was only 12 disposals, it was Yarran's most for the season.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

A point you have so kindly defended by listing a first gamer and the all conquering Yarran as the opponents. And whilst it was only 12 disposals, it was Yarran's most for the season.

Yet it was his least influential of all his games.

 

[Longy413]

Dude...It was his 9th game and he's game the week before was much quieter.
Not to mention the level of performance from the team as a whole.

We're celebrating Houli as a lock down defender because he's done a reasonable job on a 9th gamer and a 1st gamer?

It's a big step playing on Hams and then going and playing on a marking player like Lecras.

I like him on Milne, because he has the step off the mark to go with him. But Milne plays in straight lines. Any player that runs and jumps at the ball, or plays in 360 degrees, ala Steve Johnson would tear him apart. not discounting that SJ had a night out in Round 1.

Regardless, I still maintain that Slattery should go into the midfield as a tagger, back to where he started where he beat Kerr, Hayes and Ablett in his first few games and Welsh and McVeigh should go back to the backline and we should look at bringing Hardingham in. He has dash, he carries the footy and has the composure that Houli doesn't have.

 

[Slattery_20]

Regardless, I still maintain that Slattery should go into the midfield as a tagger, back to where he started where he beat Kerr, Hayes and Ablett in his first few games and Welsh and McVeigh should go back to the backline and we should look at bringing Hardingham in. He has dash, he carries the footy and has the composure that Houli doesn't have.

On that... the knock on Slatts in the middle was that he wouldn't get enough touches to justify ever being in the middle.
Seems that Welsh is fairly similar in size, seems to shut guys down pretty well, and does get a lot of the footy but turns it over a lot - would we notice the lack of possessions? Would we notice the decrease in turnovers? In short, would we miss Welsh in there (provided Slatts can shut guys down) ?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Dude...It was his 9th game and he's game the week before was much quieter.
Not to mention the level of performance from the team as a whole.

We're celebrating Houli as a lock down defender because he's done a reasonable job on a 9th gamer and a 1st gamer?

A whole two touches quieter, against much better opposition.

Houli's been serviceable without starring in both games, can only play on who your tasked with.

 

[Kong]

Stanton's diposal by foot is fine if he has time - But unfortunately the modern game doesnt give you much time - His foot disposal is average for a midifielder

He's no better or worse than ~50% of midfielders, so technically I agree with you.

 

[yaco55]

The old, someone disagrees with me, he mustn't watch footy chestnut.
Well done, I expected better.



I mentioned Milne.

Hams did go into the midfield and Yarran often spends time on the wing.
And they are players that rotate through, they aren't forwards that are lynch pins to the setup of their forward line.
Regardless, my central point was the following -


Your argument is sounding very much like the above.



A point you have so kindly defended by listing a first gamer and the all conquering Yarran as the opponents. And whilst it was only 12 disposals, it was Yarran's most for the season.

The first rule in footy is to beat your direct opponent.

And by my reckoning Houli has done this in his last 5 games

This argument is like the knock on Hurley before the 2008 Draft - Even though Hurley beat all-comers in defence.

There was always an excuse

- Player x was injured
- Poor delivery into the forward line
- wet weather

This argument is similar to the one you use against Houli.

 

[Longy413]

This argument is similar to the one you use against Houli.

No it's not.

My argument is that he isn't good enough at the moment to be playing AFL football.

He lacks composure under pressure.
His lack of composure puts teammates under pressure.
He gets lost in traffic.
He loses his opponent in traffic.
He fails to make the correct decision too often.
He fails to put his head over the ball several times within each match.

If he's going to keep playing in the midfield like he did in the last quarter, then great. Leave him in the team. That's his position and that is where he will make it as a footballer and if we want to see him get games and develop, do it in the midfield. If he can't demand a game in the midfield, then leave him in the VFL until he does.

But he isn't a defender and we have players we have drafted as defenders running around at VFL level that should come in to replace Slattery (who seems to be the likely target), if in fact we are to replace him in the first place. Dempsey as well for that matter.

Tyson Slattery and/or Hardingham should be playing in our backline before Houli, because they are better equipped for it. That said, I still maintain that McVeigh and Welsh should go back there anyway.

My argument is that Houli hasn't shown anything to make me consider playing him on the oppositions most dangerous medium forward. In fact, what he has shown has me dead against it.

Citing that he played on Yarran and Hams and kept them reasonably quiet isn't enough to go and play him on Didak or Leon Davis this week.

We need to stop playing blokes out of position, Houli is one of those. He isn't a defender, don't make him one. He gets a game in the midfield or he plays VFL.

 

[suprisepacket]

No it's not.

My argument is that he isn't good enough at the moment to be playing AFL football.

He lacks composure under pressure.
His lack of composure puts teammates under pressure.
He gets lost in traffic.
He loses his opponent in traffic.
He fails to make the correct decision too often.
He fails to put his head over the ball several times within each match.

If he's going to keep playing in the midfield like he did in the last quarter, then great. Leave him in the team. That's his position and that is where he will make it as a footballer and if we want to see him get games and develop, do it in the midfield. If he can't demand a game in the midfield, then leave him in the VFL until he does.

But he isn't a defender and we have players we have drafted as defenders running around at VFL level that should come in to replace Slattery (who seems to be the likely target), if in fact we are to replace him in the first place. Dempsey as well for that matter.

Tyson Slattery and/or Hardingham should be playing in our backline before Houli, because they are better equipped for it. That said, I still maintain that McVeigh and Welsh should go back there anyway.

My argument is that Houli hasn't shown anything to make me consider playing him on the oppositions most dangerous medium forward. In fact, what he has shown has me dead against it.

Citing that he played on Yarran and Hams and kept them reasonably quiet isn't enough to go and play him on Didak or Leon Davis this week.

We need to stop playing blokes out of position, Houli is one of those. He isn't a defender, don't make him one. He gets a game in the midfield or he plays VFL.

Well said mate. I agree Houli is nothing special i wouldnt want him in my team his handballing is shocking he's either to quick or too slow with his handballs and he loves to put a team-mate under pressure with a nice big loopy hospital pass. Houli your ruining yourself.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

If he's going to keep playing in the midfield like he did in the last quarter, then great. Leave him in the team. That's his position and that is where he will make it as a footballer and if we want to see him get games and develop, do it in the midfield. If he can't demand a game in the midfield, then leave him in the VFL until he does.

100% agree here.

 

[Shane Hird]

Dude...It was his 9th game and he's game the week before was much quieter.
Not to mention the level of performance from the team as a whole.

We're celebrating Houli as a lock down defender because he's done a reasonable job on a 9th gamer and a 1st gamer?

It's a big step playing on Hams and then going and playing on a marking player like Lecras.

I like him on Milne, because he has the step off the mark to go with him. But Milne plays in straight lines. Any player that runs and jumps at the ball, or plays in 360 degrees, ala Steve Johnson would tear him apart. not discounting that SJ had a night out in Round 1.

Regardless, I still maintain that Slattery should go into the midfield as a tagger, back to where he started where he beat Kerr, Hayes and Ablett in his first few games and Welsh and McVeigh should go back to the backline and we should look at bringing Hardingham in. He has dash, he carries the footy and has the composure that Houli doesn't have.

Come on Longy, you can't be serious?

After 4 years I still can't work u out sometimes...

 

[yaco55]

No it's not.

My argument is that he isn't good enough at the moment to be playing AFL football.

He lacks composure under pressure.
His lack of composure puts teammates under pressure.
He gets lost in traffic.
He loses his opponent in traffic.
He fails to make the correct decision too often.
He fails to put his head over the ball several times within each match.

If he's going to keep playing in the midfield like he did in the last quarter, then great. Leave him in the team. That's his position and that is where he will make it as a footballer and if we want to see him get games and develop, do it in the midfield. If he can't demand a game in the midfield, then leave him in the VFL until he does.

But he isn't a defender and we have players we have drafted as defenders running around at VFL level that should come in to replace Slattery (who seems to be the likely target), if in fact we are to replace him in the first place. Dempsey as well for that matter.

Tyson Slattery and/or Hardingham should be playing in our backline before Houli, because they are better equipped for it. That said, I still maintain that McVeigh and Welsh should go back there anyway.

My argument is that Houli hasn't shown anything to make me consider playing him on the oppositions most dangerous medium forward. In fact, what he has shown has me dead against it.

Citing that he played on Yarran and Hams and kept them reasonably quiet isn't enough to go and play him on Didak or Leon Davis this week.

We need to stop playing blokes out of position, Houli is one of those. He isn't a defender, don't make him one. He gets a game in the midfield or he plays VFL.

My God - What is Houli doing on our list - If he has all these faults.

And you want to play him in the midfield !

 

[Longy413]

Come on Longy, you can't be serious?

After 4 years I still can't work u out sometimes...

He has done nothing wrong in games he's played in the midfield.
Priddis wasn't sighted once Slattery went onto him.

My God - What is Houli doing on our list - If he has all these faults.

Reasonable question.
I think he'd be under a reasonable amount of pressure to maintain his position on the list.

And you want to play him in the midfield !

Yes, at Bendigo.

I think that's the position he's best suited to and if you took the time to read what I said, you will note that I mentioned he should be made to earn a position there.

 

[stander]

My argument is that he isn't good enough at the moment to be playing AFL football.

He lacks composure under pressure.
His lack of composure puts teammates under pressure.
He gets lost in traffic.
He loses his opponent in traffic.
He fails to make the correct decision too often.
He fails to put his head over the ball several times within each match.

When you throw in your other deficiency from days gone by- he falls away to the left when kicking, I think you have nearly completed the utter demolition of young Houli, Longy413.

However, you should give some credit to Houli for going when it was his turn the other night. The Houli of other years would have pulled out.

 

[Longy413]

When you throw in your other deficiency from days gone by- he falls away to the left when kicking, I think you have nearly completed the utter demolition of young Houli, Longy413.

Only when he kicks set shots at goal.

However, you should give some credit to Houli for going when it was his turn the other night. The Houli of other years would have pulled out.

I did give him some credit.
That said, he didn't always do it when it was his turn, only in the last quarter.

 

[SirJimi05]

That said, he didn't always do it when it was his turn, only in the last quarter.

Longy413, I know you are never ever wrong when it comes to football but please give us all the examples of where Houli didn't put his head over the ball or squibbed a contest.

Apparently man of you reckon he did but not one person has given examples, despite me asking a few times now.

I have watched the game 3 times and still can't find all these incidents you are refering to.

 

[Doug Tassell]

Incoherent drivel.

 

[Longy413]

I'm not the only one to mention it in this thread, so I'm not alone.

I would have to watch the game again to give times, because I didn't note them.

Not going when it is your turn, isn't just about going head first into a pack, it can also be about not imparting the correct level of physicality in a contest.

He gets to contests and stops. One in the middle of the ground in the first quarter and one in the back pocket in the second quarter were probably the worst. Instead of attacking the contest at pace, retaining composure, he slowed down on approach, turned and braced for contact, instead of running through.

There was a clear difference in the way that Houli attacked the contest in the last quarter, than he did in the first three. He dived in head first twice, he went back with the flight in the backline. So either he took it upon himself to be more physical (and I hope that is the case), or the coaches said something to him. I suspect the later.

Lets just be clear, I support and love the Essendon Football Club. I want all of our players to develop into really good footballers. Houli is no different to that, some of you seem to think I have a vendetta against him and am being critical for the sake of it. Some players benefit from playing senior football and can improve weaknesses at the top level because they maintain a level of composure throughout. Melksham and Colyer are great examples of that. Reimers too.

Others have weaknesses that expose them far too greatly at the top level and need to go back to the VFL to fix those. I think Houli is one of those (Atkinson is another).

I think Houli (as I've said all along) can be a really good footballer for us, but he needs to develop his game first and in my opinion he should do that by improving his decision making, his composure and learning how to use his body to impact a contest, by playing in the midfield at VFL level and getting enough runs on the board to earn a game on form, as a midfielder. Not a flanker, forward or back and not a lock down back pocket, his good attributes are too good to be wasted there.

 

[SirJimi05]

Yeah, nah have to disagree. I've watched it 3 times and i didn't see him pull out of a contest once.

He is in the team again this week so he must have done something right in the eyes of the coach and selectors.