We need to talk about Oscar

[Dalions]

I've been trying to think it through Dalions and there are 3 issues that have impacted our form

First we don't seem physically prepared when the opposition amps up. Maybe underdone fitness wise.

Second the mental letdown after the GF . We gave whatever we had and just can't sustain the level of energy required for a while , maybe the loss took more out of our thirst for the contest that the coaches realised. Disappointment to get so close and a bit haunted by the many mistakes.

Third we're overburdened with ordinary tactics. The slow the game down is a bit like a cancer that you can't get rid of once you start it up. It seems to rear its head in every game now and you can see a relaxation sweep across the team every time we do it. I watched the Swans last game and they were flat out for the whole game. That's what we're up against to be competitive.

For a Grand Final team from last year they just seem so unsure of themselves.
Especially when the pressure amps up as you say.

 

[martinson]

I may just be reading a little too much into it, I will admit.
These sorts of things happen when they have looked unconvincing at best.

I think MM nailed it in his first post.

As if Zorks would say yeah we're probably not quite fit enough.

I reckon Fages would blow a gasket.

 

[martinson]

For a Grand Final team from last year they just seem so unsure of themselves.
Especially when the pressure amps up as you say.

At various stages in both games we've completely dropped our bundle and been witches hats.

Now we know that's not how they normally play over the last few years so there has to be a huge mental aspect to it.

We certainly don't look like a team hungry to avenge a GF loss.

Not catastrophising but like you I don't like the signs at all and we need to turn that around quickly or we'll have our eyes on 2025

 

[martinson]

For a Grand Final team from last year they just seem so unsure of themselves.
Especially when the pressure amps up as you say.

So who actually put in ?

I read something you wrote re Answerth earlier. So while I've never been a wrap for him he put in and tried so he stays in. Andrews did all he humanly could but there was just no support height wise like a ruckman dropping back to take a mark.

Ah Chee put in his usual good effort. McCarthy was the only forward genuinely hard at the ball and the contest and Daniher at least got up the ground and tried to get some swift forward momentum. Starc gets a pass mark.

Sadly the biggest spark we had going when we had a flukey hope in the last quarter was Zorko and whilst I thought he should've retired we need him right now.

We had a few others who went ok when we were going well but slim pickings.

 

[M Malice]

Admittedly only from the broadcast but IMO the likes of Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

24

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

, Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

, Oscar McInerney

46

Oscar Mcinerney

Age

29

Ht

204cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.1

2star

K

4.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

CL

1.4

4star

HO

14.3

5star

D

6.9

1star

K

4.1

2star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

1.9

4star

HO

16.4

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.6

3star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

11.2

5star

, Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

31

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

, Eric Hipwood

30

Eric Hipwood

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.1

2star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.4

5star

, Jaspa Fletcher, Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

, Cam Rayner, Conor McKenna looked to be walking in quicksand for significant portions of the game, albeit some of them had a couple of good patches.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

I wonder how much the loss has taken out of the coach as well. Teams and individuals can only go to the well so many times.

Don't agree with that - I think the Cats are proof. After their 2011 flag, they made the finals in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 before breaking through again in 2022.

I think it's much more about the fact that sides who have had a long run up the top tend to have an ageing list at the end of it. We're a bit of an anomaly in that we overachieved early, and so are still in a pretty good spot age-wise.

 

[Dalions]

Don't agree with that - I think the Cats are proof. After their 2011 flag, they made the finals in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 before breaking through again in 2022.

I think it's much more about the fact that sides who have had a long run up the top tend to have an ageing list at the end of it. We're a bit of an anomaly in that we overachieved early, and so are still in a pretty good spot age-wise.

We have to take a bit from that too.
Geelong in their Premiership year a couple of year ago, Really didn’t have a great start to the year

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Don't agree with that - I think the Cats are proof. After their 2011 flag, they made the finals in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 before breaking through again in 2022.

I think it's much more about the fact that sides who have had a long run up the top tend to have an ageing list at the end of it. We're a bit of an anomaly in that we overachieved early, and so are still in a pretty good spot age-wise.

I'd argue that Geelong were the exception rather than the rule. If the argument stands that we rely on talent over system then we are a lot closer to dropping down the ladder than winning a premiership. Ageing stars, weak midfield, poor development and a very sus gameplan. Last year was our chance.

Prove me wrong Lions!

 

[Lace Out]

After watching footy for 50 years one thing I know to be true is that a ruckman’s fortune is up and down like a bride’s nightie so I wouldn’t be writing him off just yet

 

[Grasshopper17]

For a Grand Final team from last year they just seem so unsure of themselves.
Especially when the pressure amps up as you say.

I think the game has changed markedly in one summer. It's dramatic how different the game looks this year compared to even the end of last year. Teams are using the corridor, playing fast with forward handball, kicking long/laterally to previously suicidal spots like centre half forward. This means that when teams are able to play their Plan A against us, we look ordinary because I don't think we were ready for the game to look this way.

It almost makes me wonder that if you know you're not coach numero uno strategically (and all 18 coaches have their various strengths and weaknesses), just back yourself to make it up in-season once you've seen how everyone else is playing, and spend your preseason focusing on other things, like, oh I don't know, fitness

 

[Grasshopper17]

On topic, yeah I have certainly seen Oscar play better. Fort will follow up at ground level so would favour him over Oscar at the moment if he's fit and we only want to play one ruckman. If we dropped Payne after the Carlton game I think Oscar certainly needs to be in the gun, sadly.

 

[martinson]

I think the game has changed markedly in one summer. It's dramatic how different the game looks this year compared to even the end of last year. Teams are using the corridor, playing fast with forward handball, kicking long/laterally to previously suicidal spots like centre half forward. This means that when teams are able to play their Plan A against us, we look ordinary because I don't think we were ready for the game to look this way.

It almost makes me wonder that if you know you're not coach numero uno strategically (and all 18 coaches have their various strengths and weaknesses), just back yourself to make it up in-season once you've seen how everyone else is playing, and spend your preseason focusing on other things, like, oh I don't know, fitness

We don't like to draw too many conclusions 2 games in but based on those some teams have a different look about the way they bring the ball in and are prepared to back themselves at all costs. So far.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Once again Gawn has thrashed Oscar. Fort had the better of Gawn in the second half of a final a few years ago (I suspect Gawn was sore) but I think Oscar is the better player

BUT how many times will we play Oscar against melbourne?

 

[Grasshopper17]

Once again Gawn has thrashed Oscar. Fort had the better of Gawn in the second half of a final a few years ago (I suspect Gawn was sore) but I think Oscar is the better player

BUT how many times will we play Oscar against melbourne?

We really do not need to be here, talking about Oscar this week. Yes, Oscar tired late in both halves.

At the end of the first half it meant Gawn gained ascendancy in the hitouts, Melbourne won more clearances and controlled territory at the end of the second quarter. Perhaps we got a bit lucky to not concede a goal in that period, but we created a fair bit of that luck with our effort and pressure throughout the first half.

And at the end his the second half it meant Gawn started marking the ball around the ground and Melbourne did get a bit of a springboard from that.

However, for the rest of the game, Oscar was beaten in the hitouts but battled superbly beyond that, limiting Gawn's influence, preventing him from marking in dangerous positions, and following up in contested ball situations to help out his midfielders, as he needs to do all the time.

He is far from perfect, but seriously, we do not need to be here, questioning Oscar's performance, this week.

 

[Elixuh]

Oscar looks stressed cognisant of his poor form. Just needs to simplify things, like Bailey. He's giving the best that he has at the moment and always competes. Just gotta keep going.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

We really do not need to be here, talking about Oscar this week. Yes, Oscar tired late in both halves.

At the end of the first half it meant Gawn gained ascendancy in the hitouts, Melbourne won more clearances and controlled territory at the end of the second quarter. Perhaps we got a bit lucky to not concede a goal in that period, but we created a fair bit of that luck with our effort and pressure throughout the first half.

And at the end his the second half it meant Gawn started marking the ball around the ground and Melbourne did get a bit of a springboard from that.

However, for the rest of the game, Oscar was beaten in the hitouts but battled superbly beyond that, limiting Gawn's influence, preventing him from marking in dangerous positions, and following up in contested ball situations to help out his midfielders, as he needs to do all the time.

He is that from perfect, but seriously, we do not need to be here, questioning Oscar's performance, this week.

But from your post you detail how and when Gawn took him to the cleaners. Gawn also took a mark in a dangerous spot (he kicked a goal) in the last quarter.

We need to see what Oscar can do better next time he plays on Gawn. You have to admit there is a problem if you want to improve.

My first thought is Oscar should try much harder to get in front in boundary throw ins.

Any thoughts? Be positive.

 

[Dalions]

We really do not need to be here, talking about Oscar this week. Yes, Oscar tired late in both halves.

At the end of the first half it meant Gawn gained ascendancy in the hitouts, Melbourne won more clearances and controlled territory at the end of the second quarter. Perhaps we got a bit lucky to not concede a goal in that period, but we created a fair bit of that luck with our effort and pressure throughout the first half.

And at the end his the second half it meant Gawn started marking the ball around the ground and Melbourne did get a bit of a springboard from that.

However, for the rest of the game, Oscar was beaten in the hitouts but battled superbly beyond that, limiting Gawn's influence, preventing him from marking in dangerous positions, and following up in contested ball situations to help out his midfielders, as he needs to do all the time.

He is that from perfect, but seriously, we do not need to be here, questioning Oscar's performance, this week.

I do think that Oscar is showing some serious signs of slowing down.
And if we do not think anyone else on the list is truly capable of stepping up, we need to make a play for someone either mid season or at the end of the year.
Oscar is a great team man, love him to bits for that team ethos.
Would love to have a prime Stefan Martin back in the current mix.

 

[Grasshopper17]

My first thought is Oscar should try much harder to get in front in boundary throw ins.

Any thoughts? Be positive.

The danger of taking front position against a guy like Gawn is being bigger and stronger he will more often than not nudge Oscar under the ball. This means that not only does Gawn still win the hit out, it opens up the entire corridor for his midfielders.

By taking back position, yes it likely means losing the hit out, but that hit out is more likely to go boundary-side and therefore be easier to defend.

 

[martinson]

I do think that Oscar is showing some serious signs of slowing down.
And if we do not think anyone else on the list is truly capable of stepping up, we need to make a play for someone either mid season or at the end of the year.
Oscar is a great team man, love him to bits for that team ethos.
Would love to have a prime Stefan Martin back in the current mix.

Totally agree. As he's slowed down his ordinary skill level becomes a problem. And he can't seem to take marks any more.

He can obviously improve and get back in to some form and there is a possibility this is transient but at present he's a liability in some situations and the only other option is Fort.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I can’t see how anyone could make an argument other than Oscar being completely embarrassed last night

Oscar had 26 hit outs from 87 ruck contests. That’s pathetic for someone who offers nothing around the ground.

 

[Nathan Barley]

The danger of taking front position against a guy like Gawn is being bigger and stronger he will more often than not nudge Oscar under the ball. This means that not only does Gawn still win the hit out, it opens up the entire corridor for his midfielders.

By taking back position, yes it likely means losing the hit out, but that hit out is more likely to go boundary-side and therefore be easier to defend.

At least it forces Gawn to have to think about shifting Oscar out of the way to win the hit out instead of having free reign in the contest

 

[martinson]

I can’t see how anyone could make an argument other than Oscar being completely embarrassed last night

Oscar had 26 hit outs from 87 ruck contests. That’s pathetic for someone who offers nothing around the ground.

Gotta be honest I thought he was totally pantsed and didn't offer a lot around the ground.

That's just the way I saw it. He got his big body in the way a few times but that's the least you could expect if he's out there.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah there is no way to spin last night for O, he had his ass saved by his midfield group playing out of their skins.

I’d be interested in seeing Fort have a run for a couple of weeks as the lead ruck and let Oscar have a few weeks in the VFL rediscovering the feel of physically dominating some opponents.

The more long term ruck situation is an interesting one… are Smith or Lane shaping up as legit prospects?

It would be a shame if we had to get out the chequebook in a few years to get a genuine first ruck, would rather save the war chest for our next key forward post-Joe.

 

[M Malice]

Oscar did not take 1 mark last night and has taken 3 marks in the 5 games so far this season, as a comparison Ivan Soldo

13

Ivan Soldo

Age

28

Ht

204cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

24.2

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

3.1

1star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

23.0

5star

D

6.4

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.4

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

21.4

5star

who is just a run of the mill ruck has taken 10 marks in 4 games... Gawn 33 in 6 games, although he is along with Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

42

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

one of the 2 best ruckman of the AFL era.

I have often posted that IMO hit out stats are meaningless so I don't read anything into them at all, however would be interested in how many hit outs to advantage Gawn had last night which can be very damaging.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I'd like to think we look at giving one of the younger rucks a run if they're physically up to it to see where they're at. Make it a favourable match up if possible. The Big O has given a lot to us but he does look pretty battered at the moment and is really not performing.