List Mgmt. Welcome Daniel Venables (Pick 13, 2016 National Draft)

[TY24]

To date i havent seen enough to think he'll be anything more than a fringe player
Sure that may be because he's never had a good pre season but it may just be because he's only good enough to be a fringe player

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Probably because he’s being given the treatment all West Coast fringe mids get by being shoe-horned into the forward line instead of being allowed to develop his midfield craft. I’d rather see him getting 30 touches a week and chopping up the WAFL while developing his skill set than see him become another promising mid that goes through the system because he wasn’t used right.

the kid has talent, we’re not using it properly

 

[FKASC]

Probably because he’s being given the treatment all West Coast fringe mids get by being shoe-horned into the forward line instead of being allowed to develop his midfield craft. I’d rather see him getting 30 touches a week and chopping up the WAFL while developing his skill set than see him become another promising mid that goes through the system because he wasn’t used right.

the kid has talent, we’re not using it properly

Yeah I’d rather he plays all season in the middle in the wafl

 

[mattyc75]

Probably because he’s being given the treatment all West Coast fringe mids get by being shoe-horned into the forward line instead of being allowed to develop his midfield craft. I’d rather see him getting 30 touches a week and chopping up the WAFL while developing his skill set than see him become another promising mid that goes through the system because he wasn’t used right.

the kid has talent, we’re not using it properly

Hes never played much mid at any level so not sure hes got it in him.
I doubt he's gotten 30 possession too many times in his playing career,juniors included. I'd be over the moon if something clicked and he somehow channelled his inner shuey but its a long shot
I'd also be happy if he was traded in the kelly deal or for a second rounder in his own right.concussions can be tricky

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[Ishmael_]

Probably because he’s being given the treatment all West Coast fringe mids get by being shoe-horned into the forward line instead of being allowed to develop his midfield craft. I’d rather see him getting 30 touches a week and chopping up the WAFL while developing his skill set than see him become another promising mid that goes through the system because he wasn’t used right.

the kid has talent, we’re not using it properly

He was drafted as a forward...

The kid can't find the footy. He just doesn't run to the right areas. And he doesn't win touches in the WAFL either.

I hope the kid comes good, really that he gets on the field at all, but the coaches need to change their approach with him because he's not going to make it on natural talent and physical attributes alone.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

With Willie's absence there will definitely be a need for him up forward.

 

[Bender_]

 

[southcoast]

Behind paywall but heading suggests our medical staff ‘may’ have erred with DVs initial injury management.

 

[RookiePick]

Behind paywall but heading suggests our medical staff ‘may’ have erred with DVs initial injury management.

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More to come out on this I feel but make no mistake, this will be politicised with the AFL working extremely hard to blame-shift to WC to reduce liability.

Taking it on face value heads should roll in the WC medical team.

Really hoping Dan can get some effective treatment in the States.

 

[Chris_6678]

How are WC to blame? He never played again after that head knock. We left him on our list for a couple years to try recover.

 

[Rowan18]

That seems to contradict previous media where he was grateful with the treatment he recieved. This area of science is pretty new, so I'm not surprised there are differing opinions.

From last update, the AFL was trying to screw him on the compo, so this is probably heading to court.

 

[amazingjoshy]

How are WC to blame? He never played again after that head knock. We left him on our list for a couple years to try recover.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

The only criticism I have of how we treated Venables was that he tried to come back, and was training etc.

Seems crazy in hindsight, even if it was his decision to attempt it.

 

[WCE_phil]

The only criticism I have of how we treated Venables was that he tried to come back, and was training etc.

Seems crazy in hindsight, even if it was his decision to attempt it.

At the end of the day it was all his decision to try and come back and the club supported him all the way through for 2 full seasons after it happened.

Jon Ralph can go **** himself.

 

[Keys]

I’m not paying to read the Herald Sun, especially an article written by eyebrows Ralph

But I expect the sent home bit will be a reference that Venables went home after the game rather than being sent to hospital for observation

I’m not a doctor so I’m not sure if sending him to hospital would have meant a reduction in what he subsequently went through but from memory he had some pretty bad brain bleeds that night that could have been life threatening (again I’m not a doctor so I might be over dramatising that)

Whatever mistakes our medical staff may have made there’s two things that should be acknowledged
1) They never let him play again or even participate in contact training drills
2) It was an incredibly brutal knock that has rarely been seen on an AFL field so there wasn’t a lot of precedent to follow in his treatment

I feel for Venables but it needs to be understood that he’s in the process of taking legal action for what amounts to worker’s compensation so we should expect some claims of treatment mistakes. They aren’t necessarily a direct, or indirect, criticism of the club - his ongoing involvement around the fringes of the club would indicate he holds no grudge with the club itself

 

[the harry]

Can't reference/ format appropriately because on my phone


American medical experts have expressed alarm at the lack of a comprehensive rehab plan handed to concussion victim Daniel Venables by his treating doctors as he seeks international help to reduce the symptoms of his head trauma.

West Coast premiership player Venables is in America for an intensive rehabilitation program with the Neurological Wellness Institute as he awaits a decision on his AFL compensation settlement.

The doctors in America believe fluid on his brain could be one of a number of issues they hope to rectify to improve his quality of life after his 2021 retirement.

Venables was treated by the AFL’s concussion expert Paul McCrory and put on antidepressants after he suffered seven brain bleeds in a 2019 on-field collision

McCrory was later found to be treating AFL patients including Venables despite an agreement with Australia’s medical regulator not to conduct neurodiagnostic procedures, nerve conduction studies or electromyography from 2018 onwards.

Concussion campaigner Peter Jess is pushing Venables’ compensation claim with the AFL and said his American doctors were shocked at the inaction from his treating doctors including AFL-linked expert Paul McCrory

Their biggest issue was the treatment regimen with Paul McCrory. He said your life is going to revolve around being on antidepressants. There was no sense of a rehab program, no sense that Daniel was able to mitigate his symptoms?” Jess told the Herald Sun.

“Talking to other people who have been through this situation with brain trauma Daniel decided to receive treatment at the Neurological Wellness Institute under one of their key treatment doctors in David Traster whose specialty is these types of brain traumas.

“One of the tests is concerned with pressure on the brain and whether he had fluid on the brain and he is doing further tests in that area.

Dr Traster is extremely concerned about the diagnosis from Paul McCrory as he further reviews the structural and functional integrity of the brain over the next week or two.

“Daniel was sent home by West Coast’s doctors after the game and then took himself to hospital later that night. What these guys are concerned about with this injury is the first three hours are critical.

As we know there was no proactive intervention in those first three hours that could have mitigated damage. He should have immediately been transferred to the emergency department of the hospital. It has created a whole sub-set of issues.”

Venables was hit in a sickening collision in round 20, 2019 but despite a seizure on-field and 20 minutes unconscious was sent home before complaining: “My head felt like it was just going to explode”.

He now has constant migraines and pressure on his neck and cannot work, studying one subject per semester as he battles with his quality of life.

Father Peter told the Herald Sun this year his son went into a deep depression after taking the prescribed medicine before taking himself off the drugs, stating: “I need to get off this, it’s tearing me down”.

The treatment is being funded with the assistance of West Coast and the AFL

 

[the harry]

It came as Jess urged the AFL to put in place more comprehensive plans to help players who retire through concussion.

Herald Sun

“The American experts will give him a rehab plan that will hopefully assist him. What we know is you never get back to the same as what you were. But it might mitigate some of his circumstances,” he said.

“This is what the whole thing is about, trying to get guys back to normal. If not back to normal to a new normal that gives them quality of life.”

The AFL has launched an independent inquiry into McCrory’s conduct amid allegations at least five players were treated by him after 2018 despite an agreed Australian ban.

As recently as August Florey Institute expert McCrory published a paper in a prestigious English medical journal downplaying the links between head knocks and neurodegenerative brain disease CTE.

The AFL would not comment on Monday night, saying a review of McCrory’s conduct was underway.

 

[Keys]

Reading through that it would seem the major issue is with the AFL’s “concussion expert”

That and he should’ve been sent to hospital straight from the ground which is an oversight I’m sure the club medicos would acknowledge albeit that it probably wasn’t an uncommon practice at the time

 

[DanWCE]

Reading through that it would seem the major issue is with the AFL’s “concussion expert”

That and he should’ve been sent to hospital straight from the ground which is an oversight I’m sure the club medicos would acknowledge albeit that it probably wasn’t an uncommon practice at the time

Hard to imagine much would've been done in Perths hospital system within the first few hours anyway. I'm not sure how much different it is in the USA where you pay to get treatment.

 

[Monocle]

I am not surprised that DV has gone to the States for treatment and care.

I am a long time ( over 30 years ) avid follower of NFL and consequently the evolution of the concussion protocols and research that they have done - over at least a decade and a half, which os light years ahead of the AFL.

The NFL have adapted and amended their rules many times over the years and have taken the matter seriously for a much longer period of time.

Linked with the head injury / brain trauma cumulative damage by playing NFL, has shown a correlation between severe brain trauma from the hits in the NFL and it’s impact on the early onset of dementia, mental health issues and premature deaths both “ natural “ and by suicide.

The NFL Players Association have been onto to this for a decade or so.

There is even a number of former players who have donated their brains to scientific/ medical research to help advance the understanding of the issue.

The AFL *ed around with the issue for too long before they took some appropriate action to address the problem more comprehensively.

There will be IMO court action at some point in time from the AFLPA, as the data from research around the world paints a particularly bleak picture for those who have been affected by the brain trauma.

The AFL have always been sleazy bastards and any opportunity to deflect / assign blame on the the richest most Financial Club in the competition would be their modus operandi.

Passing the buck, particularly with severs financial implications and ramifications would be spooking the shit out of all at AFL House.

Gill is hightailing it out at a good time, because the likelihood that a tidal wave of claims / litigation and probable compensation is about to descend down on the AFL, is a real and possible threat.

Nothing gets the sphincter valves twitching at AFL House faster and more rapidly than the prospect of some possible financially punitive damages about to arrive in their post code.

 

[WCE_phil]

Hard to imagine much would've been done in Perths hospital system within the first few hours anyway. I'm not sure how much different it is in the USA where you pay to get treatment.

Even in the emergency department all the high level practicing Neurologists and the like would have gone home for the evening and he wouldn't have seen a high end specialist until 9am the next morning. He would have been given concussion testing and (may) have received a CT scan after he started feeling like his head was going to explode and may have then had further treatment and then had a specialist called in outside of hours.

So realistically he was treated by doctors at the time, was cleared to go home and everything else happened from there. The way the hospital system works any difference in timing with how treatment was done then may have been 20-30 minutes depending on the time he felt like he needed to go to hospital as opposed to already being in hospital and making that complaint.

Shit if it's a busy night in ER then his complaint may have literally just been treated with here's some panadol and we'll see if there's anything else we can do for you when we can.

I know it really doesn't seem that long ago but that's the likelihood of how being taken to hospital as opposed to being sent home would have run differently.

 

[WCE_phil]

The reality is the moment he had a seizure after a brain injury he should have been sent straight to hospital. It's standard practice not only now but has been for a very, very long time.

The type and severity of the seizure may have determined why he was or wasn't sent to hospital but any doctor in their right mind would call for an ambulance if a player (or anyone) for that matter had a grand mal seizure after a head knock.

 

[Truckosaurus]

On-field seizure + "She'll be right, mate" = WTF???

 

[The wily weagle]

“Daniel was sent home by West Coast’s doctors after the game and then took himself to hospital later that night. What these guys are concerned about with this injury is the first three hours are critical.

As we know there was no proactive intervention in those first three hours that could have mitigated damage. He should have immediately been transferred to the emergency department of the hospital. It has created a whole sub-set of issues.”

If that is indeed true, that is seriously concerning and could absolutely amount to medical malpractice

 

[WCE_phil]

Just remember it's night and the ER department aren't going to treat you as a priority unless there is no-one there with other severe medical issues or until you are seen as the most pressing issue there.

The hit was horrendous and the long term effects have been horrendous for Daniel but it's understanding how the hospital system in Australia works particularly for specialist treatment outside of normal hours is an important part here.

 

[Wild Kelly]

Just remember it's night and the ER department aren't going to treat you as a priority unless there is no-one there with other severe medical issues or until you are seen as the most pressing issue there.

The hit was horrendous and the long term effects have been horrendous for Daniel but it's understanding how the hospital system in Australia works particularly for specialist treatment outside of normal hours is an important part here.

More likely he would have spent 5 or so hours lying in an ambulance ramped up outside the hospital.