Welsh and Bock

[TheLeftFist8]

Absolute rubbish. So that great tackle in the centre square, after he ran down a Geelong player running out of the backline and got holding the ball.

Welshy could give us anything offensively as Scarlett is just too good for him BUT his defensive side of the game was very good today.

Correct.

Scarlett is the best full back in the competition and would have thrashed any of Ricciuto, McGregor, Bock, Stevens or anyone else we've got today, especially with the the slow ball movement in.

IMO Welsh was either used as the decoy to get Scarlett away from goals (much like opposition have tried with Rutten previously) or he simply lost confidence to continue leading to position as he was getting beaten at 9/10 contests.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Correct.

Scarlett is the best full back in the competition and would have thrashed any of Ricciuto, McGregor, Bock, Stevens or anyone else we've got today, especially with the the slow ball movement in.

IMO Welsh was either used as the decoy to get Scarlett away from goals (much like opposition have tried with Rutten previously) or he simply lost confidence to continue leading to position as he was getting beaten at 9/10 contests.

It's good to have posters who actually understand football.

 

[macca23]

Considering the rotations that have been occuring this year with our forwards and that once we started to lose players meant that the rest our forwards are normally getting each quarter didn't occur. Hence why they were so stuffed at the end of the game. Our game plan requires a huge aerobic base but takes into account those players getting 'rests' per quarter it just didn't and couldn't happen today.

If Welsh didn't chase as some of you are stating then why was he marking a ball in our backlines at one stage, wouldn't you think it's because he had chased his man down there?

Good point about the inability to use rotations Nikki.

That applied to our mid-fielders in particular more than the forward though IMO, as the mid-fielders normally work until exhaustion and then come off for a rest.

The boys were brave though (except one) and only fatigue caused by no rotations cost us the game IMO.

The footy gods hate us at the moment.

 

[Mad Dog]

A fit Welsh and Bock need to be in our 22.

They are potential match winners.....in fact Welsh got us over the line against Carlton, and the week before against Richmond (I think), by kicking multiple goals in the final quarter.

I thought Bock wasn't too bad today and enabled Craigy to bring Kenny forward.

 

[Use the force Luke]

Correct.

Scarlett is the best full back in the competition and would have thrashed any of Ricciuto, McGregor, Bock, Stevens or anyone else we've got today, especially with the the slow ball movement in.

IMO Welsh was either used as the decoy to get Scarlett away from goals (much like opposition have tried with Rutten previously) or he simply lost confidence to continue leading to position as he was getting beaten at 9/10 contests.

Yep, I think thats pretty accurate. People seem to be pretty hard on Welsh but he regularly gets the oppositions best backman. In a perfect world hed be getting picked up by the 2nd or 3rd backman. He regularly finds himself in one on one contests which is just not what he does best.

Hes still our leading goal kicker and I wouldnt be considering dropping him.

 

[Mad Dog]

Bomber usually uses Scarlett against who he percieves is the opposition's most dangerous forward. In the past month, Welsh has been our best matchwinning forward.

absolutely correct......

 

[Use the force Luke]

I thought Bock wasn't too bad today and enabled Craigy to bring Kenny forward.

I agree with that MD. Certainly not specatcular but he has a go, probably tries to be a bit too clever at times and makes a few mistakes though.

My heart really wants Bock to be our CHF, but I get the feeling that he may well be better suited to CHB.

 

[SkinFeeling]

I didn't see Welsh defend once from the end was. No forwardline pressure what so ever.

So it must've been someone else who ran down Gary Ablett Jr in the centre square then
I'm not the biggest fan of Welshy but he gets the best defender just about every week (albeit a lack of taller options) when he's what.... 6'1?

 

[smoovy]

Absolute rubbish. So that great tackle in the centre square, after he ran down a Geelong player running out of the backline and got holding the ball.

Welshy could give us anything offensively as Scarlett is just too good for him BUT his defensive side of the game was very good today.

Absolutely spot on. Was beaten comprehensively by Scarlett, on a day where delivery was poor for leading forwards...and against one of the best full backs in the comp.

But I cannot fault his pressure, that chase was the perfect example. You could fault his effort in other games this season, but not this one.

Those calling for him to be dropped....do you want to cripple our forward line anymore? We already have a forward that is not dynamic and far from potent, yet some want to take away our leading goal kicker, one our best marks, and (sadly this is the case) probably our best forward off the ground.

As for Bock, in my opinion with Kenny back, he needs to be moved to CHB...this is where he made his name as a footballer, not as a forward. Stevens needs to become a permanent forward.

My forwarld line is

FF: Welsh Griffen Johncock
CHF: Stevens McGregor Porplyzia

Would definitely have Roo changing in and out of the midfield with Stiffy or Porplyzia.

Tell me that forward line doesn't look more dynamic already.

P.S. Was glad to hear in Cragy's press conference that Johncock will be playing up forward more. Now if only he could put Mattner on the wing I will be happy.

 

[bus24]

P.S. Was glad to hear in Cragy's press conference that Johncock will be playing up forward more. Now if only he could put Mattner on the wing I will be happy.

Did I also hear in his PC, that some attacking football might be on the agenda?

 

[smoovy]

Did I also hear in his PC, that some attacking football might be on the agenda?

Yes he also said that defensive footy won't get you there.

There's no doubt he understands that we need to be more attacking. At the same time he also understands that given our current form and injury situation that we can't just go all out attack otherwise we will get belted.

There also needs to be a recognition as to how opposition teams play against us. They are flooding just as much, if not more than we do. This is why we chip it around the back, because all of the oppositions players are in our forward half. When we played sides that a poor defensively (Bulldogs and Carlton) we actucally looked quite attacking.

What we need to be better at is when we create a turnover, particularly on our half back line, is to run it quickly forward so our forwards aren't out numbered.

 

[ThePeckers]

No keep Welsh, the guy is a very much confidence player. Once he does soemthing good, he follows it up. Yesterday he did close to nothing and the things he did do were actually quite bad.

I think we should stick with him, Someone has to teach the guy to take a contested mark in the hands though, he relies to much on the chest mark.
Bock played very bad, but him and Kenny are a good combination. I think they both played shockers today, dont bag them too much.

Wat i wood like to see is a young forward come into the team.
(or even Pav )


p.s the game would have been very different if not for that kick by Pop, and all this critism wouldnt be happening.

 

[King Elvis]

Yep, I think thats pretty accurate. People seem to be pretty hard on Welsh but he regularly gets the oppositions best backman. In a perfect world hed be getting picked up by the 2nd or 3rd backman. He regularly finds himself in one on one contests which is just not what he does best.

Hes still our leading goal kicker and I wouldnt be considering dropping him.

That argument is made about every single one of our forwards - that they'd be excellent if they had the other sides third or fourth best backman on them.

Welsh is our first choice full-forward, if he can't handle the oppositions full back, then we're in trouble (which we are).

And for mine, Bocky has to be our CHB fullstop. Hentschel will be back next year, plus we have Sellar, Tippett and Griff who can all be a possibility down forward; but do we have a young player in the wings who can play CHB?

 

[Use the force Luke]

That argument is made about every single one of our forwards - that they'd be excellent if they had the other sides third or fourth best backman on them.

Welsh is our first choice full-forward, if he can't handle the oppositions full back, then we're in trouble (which we are).

And for mine, Bocky has to be our CHB fullstop. Hentschel will be back next year, plus we have Sellar, Tippett and Griff who can all be a possibility down forward; but do we have a young player in the wings who can play CHB?

I disagree. Welsh's best position is at HFF. He is a much better player when he can run at the ball rataher than stand under it. I said the same of Perrie last week.

For mine, Kenny needs to play FF. I'd rest a ruckman in the FP with either Stiffy or Tyson in the other FP.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I disagree. Welsh's best position is at HFF. He is a much better player when he can run at the ball rataher than stand under it. I said the same of Perrie last week.

For mine, Kenny needs to play FF. I'd rest a ruckman in the FP with either Stiffy or Tyson in the other FP.

Welsh's best position is either FP or HFF, where he is playing as the 3rd tall. He is less likely to get under the oppoistion's guard when he gets the best defender like Scarlett.

I agree Kenny is best suited deep - either FF or between FF/CHF. That leaves either Stevens or Bock to play the Perrie leading-role between CHF/C.

 

[Mad Dog]

whatever the setup or personnel - one issue I was looking at yesterday was where they physically stand for a centre bounce - or when the ball is in defense.

IMO - the deep forwards start too far out from goal.....they should be right on the goaline - whether it's 1 or 2 leading or a leading and a stay at home.

There is just not enough space behind the CHFs for either line to run into.

When a kick comes in - invariably it ends up on their head instead of out in front.

That "Hot Spot" needs to be left vacant for midfielders to aim at and forwards to lead into.

The current setup is not working

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

whatever the setup or personnel - one issue I was looking at yesterday was where they physically stand for a centre bounce - or when the ball is in defense.

IMO - the deep forwards start too far out from goal.....they should be right on the goaline - whether it's 1 or 2 leading or a leading and a stay at home.

There is just not enough space behind the CHFs for either line to run into.

When a kick comes in - invariably it ends up on their head instead of out in front.

That "Hot Spot" needs to be left vacant for midfielders to aim at and forwards to lead into.

The current setup is not working

Some good points MD.

One thing Blighty was keen on was getting the forward structure/predictability right, regardless of the personel. The ball is often being delivered slowly in to the forward line because of a lack of confidence/changing personel. The system going forward should be the same regardless.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Anyone else think that Bock could have OP? My dad mentioned it today and it does make sense considering the way that he is playing.

 

[tribey]

Anyone else think that Bock could have OP? My dad mentioned it today and it does make sense considering the way that he is playing.

Out of Positionitis?

Nothing a month at CHB couldn't fix.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Anyone else think that Bock could have OP? My dad mentioned it today and it does make sense considering the way that he is playing.

Not sure about OP - looks more back-related - but doesn't look 100% fit. More reason IMO, to play him at CHB, where can run straight at the ball.

 

[NikkiNoo]

My original thoughts were back related but he actually did a couple of bends yesterday that seemed ok. It was his lack of turning (which I know has never been a strong point) or that it is much wider than it used to be.