Were West Coast really a 'state team' in the early 90s?

[footyfan1978]

Fair exaggeration.

Two former Lions that came across in the merger played more than 50 games for Brisbane - Chris Johnson and Jarrod Molloy. Johnson became one of the great small defenders of all time, after being a skinny, inconsistent half forward earlier in his career, and Molloy, while a handy player, was really only significant in terms of premiership success because he was eventually traded for Mal Michael.

In terms of other former Lions, Alistair Lynch came to Brisbane before the merger, and battled Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for years, arguably being a bit of a flop (in terms of contract size and length) in his first 5-6 years up north

Lynch was an absolute gun before that sickness made him a shadow of himself in his prime. Lost the best years of his career to it and only really capable of playing from the square once he came back. He was much more agile and brilliant both ends of ground before that struck him down.

 

[footyfan1978]

He beat me to it and probably a lot more comprehensively than i would have.

Hats off sir theres names there id forgotten

I probably forgot a few more. Blackwell from my own club I forget. He may even have gone back to Perth in 88 or 89 to play and coach in WAFL for rest of his career.

 

[Kwality]

Phil Egan went to Assumption, Vic, not a Sandgroper IMHO.

 

[footyfan1978]

NT ?
I was wondering about Les Bamblett and Michael McLean too.
Think Magic McLean from NT?
Anyone know whether Bamblett was a West Aussie ?

 

[_Mike_]

Anyone know whether Bamblett was a West Aussie ?

Played for Claremont in 84, original team was Lemnos in Shepparton.

Apparently his place of birth was Vic.

 

[Roddy]

How good were we to have beaten a state team in '91?

 

[footyfan1978]

I probably forgot a few more. Blackwell from my own club I forget. He may even have gone back to Perth in 88 or 89 to play and coach in WAFL for rest of his career.

Few more like Andrew Purser ruckman for Dogs I think was a West Aussie., Was Peter Foster of Dogs a West Aussie too?
Steve Da Rui at my club was.
Vidovis of Saints not sure.
The Kickett's ?
Gary Shaw of Pies ?
Phil Kelly at North ?

 

[kranky al]

How good were we to have beaten a state team in '91?

I think hawthorn is our biggest bogey team out there.

 

[JackOutback]

To answer the OP's question, "Was West Coast really a 'state team' in the early 90s?" you only need to look at the WA State of Origin team that annihilated Victoria by 76 points on a rainy night in 1991.

Here's the 22 WA players from that evening:

7 Vic-based players: Mark Bairstow, Nicky Winmar, Darren Bewick, Earl Spalding, Ben Allan, Craig Starcevich, Allen Jakovich
15 West Coast players: Brett Heady, Chris Mainwaring, Peter Sumich, Dwayne Lamb, Craig Turley, Paul Harding, Don Pyke, Scott Watters, Karl Langdon, Ashley McIntosh, Guy McKenna, Peter Matera, Dean Kemp, Chris Waterman, Glen Jakovich

Here's another 6 West Coast guns who were uavailable to play:
John Worsfold (c), Michael Brennan (vc), Chris Lewis, Tony Evans, Peter Wilson, David Hart
All six were among West Coast's best players, who played state footy for WA before or after 1991, and/or were selected in All Australian teams and would've walked into the WA team in '91.


West Coast fans in this thread are either obfuscating or can't read. Why are they referring state players from 1986/87 ? Nobody said the Eagles had a "state team" in 1987. The "WA state team" whinging from Victorians only came about when West Coast DOMINATED the competition in 1991, winning their first 12 games by huge margins, sitting on top of the ladder undefeated with a percentage of 195.1

The butt.hurt on talkback radio was IMMENSE. It was right around then when the WA state team defeated Victoria 19.13 (127) to 7.9 (51) and everyone here in Victoria just sighed, shook their heads and said "May as well hand them the cup. They're unbeatable."

All this does is show how well West Coast developed its list. The question is whether West Coast was handed a state list; it wasn't, as clearly evidenced above. It had access to young talent, most of which was available to other teams, that it then developed. As we know, from watching Gold Coast, simply having young talent doesn't guarantee you success. Using your logic, Hawthorn was handed an AFL All-Star list and that's why it won three premierships.

 

[Back One Out]

All this does is show how well West Coast developed its list. The question is whether West Coast was handed a state list; it wasn't, as clearly evidenced above. It had access to young talent, most of which was available to other teams, that it then developed. As we know, simply from watching Gold Coast, simply having young talent doesn't guarantee you success. Using your logic, Hawthorn was handed an AFL All-Star list and that's why it won three premierships.

This post has so many inaccuracies, I don't know where to start.

Literally, every sentence you typed is wrong.

 

[stax on the mull]

NT ?
I was wondering about Les Bamblett and Michael McLean too.
Think Magic McLean from NT?
Anyone know whether Bamblett was a West Aussie ?

Les Bamblett had signed to play for Claremont in the WAFL after leaving Melbourne Demons but changed his plans and ended up at Footscray, where he had a brilliant but short injury affected career. He played 9 games in 3 VFL seasons after 1985.

You're naming all these players like they would be upgrades on the ones West Coast chose in their initial squad. I doubt that would have been the thinking at the time. West Coast leant heavily on the players who played in the WAFL grand finals Subiaco and East Fremantle - the latter probably influenced by the selection of coach, Ron Alexander who had been coaching East Fremantle. You can't pick everybody to make the best 20 or to make a squad of 35 or 37.

 

[JackOutback]

This post has so many inaccuracies, I don't know where to start.

Literally, every sentence you typed is wrong.

Yeah, nah, all the players they didn't have access to has been listed, players like Kemp were taken in the 100s after other teams had their chance. West Coast had start-up concessions, but nothing as attractive as people like to make out. Just because West Coast took what they were given with an excelled, there's no reason to act like they were gifted something they were not.

 

[stax on the mull]

Yeah, nah, all the players they didn't have access to has been listed, players like Kemp were taken in the 100s after other teams had their chance. West Coast had start-up concessions, but nothing as attractive as people like to make out. Just because West Coast took what they were given with an excelled, there's no reason to act like they were gifted something they were not.

Other teams were allowed to pick only one player per club from WA in the year Kemp got drafted.

 

[RookiePick]

How many West Australian players were VFL clubs typically drafting in any given year prior to this?

 

[footyfan1978]

Les Bamblett had signed to play for Claremont in the WAFL after leaving Melbourne Demons but changed his plans and ended up at Footscray, where he had a brilliant but short injury affected career. He played 9 games in 3 VFL seasons after 1985.

You're naming all these players like they would be upgrades on the ones West Coast chose in their initial squad. I doubt that would have been the thinking at the time. You can't pick everybody to make the best 20 or to make a squad of 35 or 37.

Thanks for the Bamblett info. Someone else cleared it up it seems.
I am naming options of players that my memory can recall possibly having origins from WA not as all upgrades but just as WA connections. We know they barely got more than Glendinning and Annear for season 1. Basically they had to get the bulk of their players through local concessions and best teenagers to come through in coming years from there. Probably the first club to draft really well and build a nucleus of a premiership team that way.

 

[footyfan1978]

How many West Australian players were VFL clubs typically drafting in any given year prior to this?

Recruiting about 1 or 2.

 

[Jascave]

TBH, West Coast wouldn't have won their first premiership in 1992 if John Todd was still coach of the Eagles.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Matchu]

Yeah, nah, all the players they didn't have access to has been listed, players like Kemp were taken in the 100s after other teams had their chance. West Coast had start-up concessions, but nothing as attractive as people like to make out. Just because West Coast took what they were given with an excelled, there's no reason to act like they were gifted something they were not.

I don't know why West Coast supporters continue to push the idea that they weren't given generous concessions when they entered the league. Even worse than that, they seem to complain that they weren't given enough! That would be like the Crows fans complaining that they didn't get Stephen Kernahan when they entered the league or Brisbane fans being mad that they weren't given Jason Dunstall on a silver platter. Ridiculous!

 

[Kwality]

All this does is show how well West Coast developed its list. The question is whether West Coast was handed a state list; it wasn't, as clearly evidenced above. It had access to young talent, most of which was available to other teams, that it then developed. As we know, from watching Gold Coast, simply having young talent doesn't guarantee you success. Using your logic, Hawthorn was handed an AFL All-Star list and that's why it won three premierships.

When the Eagles had 35 on their list & others had 53, it had to be evened up sooner or later.

 

[Kwality]

I don't know why West Coast supporters continue to push the idea that they weren't given generous concessions when they entered the league. Even worse than that, they seem to complain that they weren't given enough! That would be like the Crows fans complaining that they didn't get Stephen Kernahan when they entered the league or Brisbane fans being mad that they weren't given Jason Dunstall on a silver platter. Ridiculous!

35 v 53 .... ridiculous, & when it is evened up you call it a generous concession.
Ranks with the finals series of 1990, no generousity there.

 

[JackOutback]

They weren't meant to be generous at all. The fact that West Coast turned it into a successful team is a credit to their tactics and development. More generous than Freo and Port, sure, but they weren't given this big leg-up to succeed.

 

[stax on the mull]

Recruiting about 1 or 2.

The recruiting happened before the license to West Coast was given. This is what the whinge is about. We could have had this player and that player - without ever considering that some of those players might have wanted to play for other clubs.

To answer the question about drafting specifically, the other clubs couldn't pick players out of the WAFL in the 86 and 87 drafts and in the following years it was a maximum of one WAFL player per club. West Coast couldn't participate in the 86 and 87 drafts because they had exclusive access to the WAFL. The draft in those years wasn't binding. Players would be picked in the Top 10 and if they didn't want to leave their state, they'd not go to the club that picked them.

The basic question living in WA, when I heard about this new state base team that was going to be formed, the squad of players that West Coast picked from the from a strong WAFL competition, plus a few players who came back like Glendenning, Narkle, Annear, Turner was: And who are they going play against? Were they going to play against composite teams from Victoria South Aust etc. No, they were actually going to play against VFL clubs.

 

[Matchu]

35 v 53 .... ridiculous, & when it is evened up you call it a generous concession.
Ranks with the finals series of 1990, no generousity there.

I'm going to assume you haven't read most of this thread because if you had you would know this has been covered in depth. I'll save you the hassle - an initial list of 35 was never intended to hurt West Coast. Rather, they thought it was a logical amount of players to have on their list due to the Eagles not possessing a reserves team (every other club in the VFL had a reserves team at the time). It's also important to note that West Coast only had a smaller list for two seasons before the VFL stepped in and rectified the situation. However, West Coast managed to make the finals in 1988 (finished 4th) with a list of 35 players so I'm not sure it's as big an issue as you're making it out to be.

So it was either not that big of a deal to only have 35 players on the list OR the players they possessed at the time were so talented that a restricted list didn't hold them back. Pick your poison.

 

[footyfan1978]

The recruiting happened before the license to West Coast was given. This is what the whinge is about. We could have had this player and that player - without ever considering that some of those players might have wanted to play for other clubs.

To answer the question about drafting specifically, the other clubs couldn't pick players out of the WAFL in the 86 and 87 drafts and in the following years it was a maximum of one WAFL player per club.

Probably right but I was answering a question about any given year back then, not just 1986 or 87.
In 1981 for example we recruited Peter Bosustow and Ken Hunter from WA. 1982, Ross Ditchburn and Allan Montgomery, 1984 Warren Ralph and Wayne Blackwell, 1985 Brad Shine, 1986 Jon Dorotich and Peter Kenny, 1987 Richard Dennis and Peter Sartori, 1988 Steven Da Rui

 

[stax on the mull]

Probably right but I was answering a question about any given year back then, not just 1986 or 87.
In 1981 for example we recruited Peter Bosustow and Ken Hunter from WA. 1982, Ross Ditchburn and Allan Montgomery, 1984 Warren Ralph and Wayne Blackwell, 1985 Brad Shine, 1986 Jon Dorotich and Peter Kenny, 1987 Richard Dennis and Peter Sartori, 1988 Steven Da Rui

Maybe you know what you're talking about, but there's a need to differentiate between what you call "recruiting" and what is called "drafting" which confuses the issue for some of these West Coast dills. Dennis, Da Rui and Satori, Doritich, etc...they're the years the first played for Carlton, not necessarily the years they signed to play. My point is for some of these players a team like Carlton would have more appeal than a start up club like West Coast was.

Some players wanted to go to Melbourne, wanted to play for the big clubs in Victoria, like its almost a kind of honor to be recruited by them. Dorotich is about the only one who had a significant career and was young enough that he wasn't done by the end of the decade and he is Carlton through and through. He turned up in 86, played in Grand Final in his first year and played in a Premiership the next.