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What are the question marks over your team in 2022?

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Two questions I think are:
  • How our forward/ruck situation works while Hipwood is out. Will Fort come in and assist Big O and how will the forward line function? Keep the 3 tall options? Or change things up?
  • How do we look to rejuvenate our midfield? We have been beaten by big mids and by relentless running in the midfield the last few years. With Zorko and Robbo getting closer to the end, how can the kids replace them and also change up our team for more pace and size
 
There's really only one for Tiger fans that the media and supporters are really interested to find out.

Our poor performance in 2021 was it a result of:

A) Burnout, mental fatigue, player injury and bad luck and we bounce back into winning finals in 2022.

B) The inevitable dynasty decline that comes and its time for a rebuild.

We should have an idea by midway through 2022.
 
Toump Ass said:
Think we have those two locked away for a while, but it's not the established stars I'm worried about.

A lot of clubs would have noticed Sparrow, Bowey, Jackson, Rivers etc. this year and they all deserve big pay rises.
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Every successful team loses players to better offers.
The key is to try and keep them as the fringe players and not the stars.

Lose the Ellis, Miles, Townsend, Markov, Coleman-Jones, Chol, Butler, Higgins type players and not the Martin, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Vlastuin, Grimes, Edwards types.

You pretty much have to confine yourself that further success will inevitably mean losing some depth or promising youth.
 

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juss said:
Lose the Ellis, Miles, Townsend, Markov, Coleman-Jones, Chol, Butler, Higgins type players
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See that’s the point though, I’m not really seeing disposable players like that at the Dees. We’re overflowing with talent here, it’s going to be really rough.
 
The backline:
Pretty much all of it. The only long term fixture that you can lock in there is Ben McKay, and probably Aidan Corr although we didn't see much of him in 2021. It's by far the line with the most experience, which means it's the one that will look the most different by the time we're getting ready to contend. You've got Ziebell, Hall and Walker who are all on the wrong side of 30, and all 3 played close to every game in 2021. Walker is the break glass in case of emergency KPP but the other two have been really good back there. With Robbie Tarrant departing and the others likely to be moving on in the next couple of years, we're going to have to find a good key defender, a good mid-sized defender, and a running rebounder with good disposal. It's going to be interesting to see who gets games back there and who emerges as contenders for those positions. I'm looking really closely at Flynn Perez, who showed a lot before the injury that sidelined him for all of 2021. Another interesting one is Matt McGuinness. He's a stick with great skills who's been a category B rookie for a few years, who now looks set to have an uninterrupted run at it as an intercepting third tall. There's a lot of other young players on the list who could be played back there next year and further along, like Bonar, Hayden, Bosenavulagi, Goater, Patrick Walker, Young, Bergman and Archer. I'm eager to see how it shakes out.

The ruck/forward situation:
Todd Goldstein is turning 34 next year. He's been a giant of our club, arguably the best ruckman of the 2010s and a central figure of the side for over a decade now. Replacing him is going to be difficult, and he's not going to make it easy for the up and comers. In the mean time, what's very interesting is who's going to play as his relief ruck/resting forward. Throughout 2021 it was Tristan Xerri when he was available and Tom Campbell (who's off to St. Kilda) when he wasn't. Xerri requested a trade to St. Kilda but the club opted to keep him which suggests they've got a plan for him, but they also went out and recruited Callum Coleman-Jones who will be looking to play a similar role. Add in the fact that Charlie Comben should be getting a run alongside Nick Larkey as a tall forward, and it's hard to see how Goldstein, X and CCJ can all fit into the same side. There's also Jacob Edwards who looks likely to be the Goldy replacement long term, but he's a couple of years away at least.

The captaincy:
Jack Ziebell will most likely hold on to it for another year. After that, I think Jy Simpkin is the best choice. Coming off a Syd Barker medal and his most consistent season yet, he's still growing as a player and looks to be a central piece of the midfield for years to come. He also appears to be a player that others look up to, he's on the older side of the 18-25 aged core of the list, and he drives high standards at training. If there's a changeover prior to the start of 2022, Luke McDonald could also be a good choice. Also a Syd Barker medallist, and also a player that others seem to look up to. I fear for Luke that he may have missed the boat, similar to the position Drew Petrie was in when Boomer stepped down as captain. An obvious leader of the club but a little bit older than you'd like a new captain to be. That being said, Luke is only 26 and his best footy is probably still ahead of him.
 
Toump Ass said:
See that’s the point though, I’m not really seeing disposable players like that at the Dees. We’re overflowing with talent here, it’s going to be really rough.
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At least we waited until we won 3 flags before that sort of hyperbole.

Every list has players on the fringe relative to their 22 and the successful clubs always lose some of them. Good management will only allow those not critical to be lost even if they are talented.
 
juss said:
At least we waited until we won 3 flags before that sort of hyperbole.
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Nah, you had trolls posting that in the lead up to the 2017 GF ;)
 
juss said:
At least we waited until we won 3 flags before that sort of hyperbole.

Every list has players on the fringe relative to their 22 and the successful clubs always lose some of them. Good management will only allow those not critical to be lost even if they are talented.
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Ellis would have made a case for the medical sub from our 2021 premiership team but yeah, outside of that, I don't see any of those players getting a game at the Dees. No offence.
 
Toump Ass said:
Ellis would have made a case for the medical sub from our 2021 premiership team but yeah, outside of that, I don't see any of those players getting a game at the Dees. No offence.
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It's not necessarily about who your fringe players are, it's the fact that every side can only play 22 on any given day. So the ones that don't get opportunity or get paid less, often want to go to a club that they get paid and play more.

The actual quality of fringe player A vs fringe player B doesn't really change the concept. It's harder to crack into successful sides.
 
The biggest question mark hanging over WC is which version will turn up. We started last season 3-2 and that really should've been 5-0 or 4-1. 6-3 is a decent platform, so is 8-5. To finish the season 2-7 was disappointing, and we put our name up for 'worst team of the week' a good half a dozen times or more. Sydney vs WC @ Kardinia Park was a top 5 worst performance from us I've ever seen and we've had teams winning 5 games and having a percentage in the 60s before. Yeo played 12 games and Shuey 7, and without those two in the middle setting the standard we play with zero intensity which is a huge concern.

We're a pretty old team and there aren't many young players on the list who you'd imagine will come in and make a huge impact, so we'll be running it back for one last crack with Kennedy, Hurn, Redden and perhaps Shuey/Naitanui I guess we'll see. Only major personnel change is Sheppard sadly retiring, but with Barrass, McGovern, Rotham, Edwards, Witherden, Duggan, Hurn we still have plenty of options in the back 6. Pressure is on to not fall off a cliff but I'd say that it's off to some degree. 2018 was 3 full seasons ago and Melbourne, WB, Port, Brisbane have gone past us. Essendon and Sydney are building, Geelong always thereabouts. Richmond had one down year, we've had 3. We're a classic 'if you stay in the same place you go backwards' team at the minute. Not impossible that we'll finish top 4 and challenge for a flag, but Sportsbet has us 10th favourite and I'd say that's about right.
 
juss said:
Every successful team loses players to better offers.
The key is to try and keep them as the fringe players and not the stars.

Lose the Ellis, Miles, Townsend, Markov, Coleman-Jones, Chol, Butler, Higgins type players and not the Martin, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Vlastuin, Grimes, Edwards types.

You pretty much have to confine yourself that further success will inevitably mean losing some depth or promising youth.
Click to expand...
Looking at those names - lost a hell of a lot of their depth though haven't they the Tigers. Aging guns. Personally I'm not sold - we have seen this before.
Won't be easy.
 
Our list is developing nicely. Clarko had us beating a number of top teams in 2021.

The real question for us is Mitchell any good as a coach. We are paying Clarko a LOT of money to sit 2022 out, so there is a big expectation on Mitchell.

Our young forwards have a lot of potential, our defence is strong but our midfield has a lot of question marks. Though that is Mitchell's strength.

It very much comes down to him.

Also it would be nice if Kennett hurried up and ****ed off. He can have the credit for our previous success but he has overseen a trainwreck over the last year and has to go.
 

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GhostofJimJess said:
Sam Lloyd was another - he was the prototype of the 23rd best player at a footy club.
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Some of these names at the end of the line aren't old players though.Lloyd was 29 when he kicked off at the Dogs. IMO the lack of depth will now hurt the Tiggies, just like it did Brisbane post 2004 and the Hawks post 2015.
 
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Jack Green said:
Some of these names at the end of the line aren't old players though.Lloyd was 29 when he kicked off at the Dogs. IMO the lack of depth will now hurt the Toggies, just like it did Brisbane post 2004 and the Hawks post 2015.
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Yep, lack of depth definitely hurt us in 2021. If we somehow have a miraculous Demons '21 or Tiges '17 run of good fortune injury-wise next year that lack of depth will be masked somewhat though.
 
GhostofJimJess said:
Yep, lack of depth definitely hurt us in 2021. If we somehow have a miraculous Demons '21 or Tiges '17 run of good fortune injury-wise next year that lack of depth will be masked somewhat though.
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Yeah, well that's what it boils s down to. If you don't get injuries like the Dees this year , your depth doesn't get tested. :thumbsu:
 

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juss said:
At least we waited until we won 3 flags before that sort of hyperbole.

Every list has players on the fringe relative to their 22 and the successful clubs always lose some of them. Good management will only allow those not critical to be lost even if they are talented.
Click to expand...

That is simply wrong Juss. I was telling the world we had three flags coming by 2020, 2 state for the art training facilities, were on our way to 75k+ members and zero debt and making finals multiple times within 5 years as soon as Benny Gale announced this would be happening back in 2010.

After 2016 I was telling everyone we had a great list as soon as Damien Hardwick announced the same post season.

You just have to know who to listen to. 😁
 
Jack Green said:
Yeah, well that's what it boils s down to. If you don't get injuries like the Dees this year , your depth doesn't get tested. :thumbsu:
Click to expand...

In 2017 the Tigers depth used at AFL level consisted of: Hunt, Lennon, Morris, Batchelor, Miles, Conca, C Ellis, Elton, Lloyd, Menadue, who ultimately didn’t play in any of our flags. Townsend who did play in the 2017 flag. All of these are no longer on AFL lists. Griffiths started as best 22 but was cut down by injuries.

Markov who didn’t play in a flag but is enjoying first 22 status at the Suns. Stengle who has just been picked up by the Cats, to form a one man under 30 department. 😁.

And emerging stars/good players Short, Soldo(21yo,) Bolton(19yo) and Broad and Graham(19yo), the latter two played in the 2017 flag.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The current non-best 22 depth looks a bit different, mainly younger emerging players:

Aarts, Caddy, Parker, who are now mature depth players really.

Then a load of young and emerging players some now in their 4th and 5th years at the club:

New draftees Gibcus, Brown, Sonsie, Banks, Clarke all look talented but are first year of course, and Rioli Jnr is still a baby barely older than that lot.

Miller, Collier-Dawkins, Ross, all entering their 4th or 5th seasons at the club.

Mansell, Ralphsmith, Ryan, Cumberland, Martyn, Dow, Nyuon are all 20 or 21 right now.

The ones I have bolded, due to the positions they play, their age, and stage of development, and most recent form, look Richmond’s main depth options for the 2022 season. There are 23 players who look best 22 besides that depth so there is an extra player there as well, depending on how the club sees Soldo/Pickett/McIntosh/Castagna/Stack, some of whom could be marginal for a variety of different reasons.

When you look at all the bolded depth players from both 2017 and 2021, there is a bit of a shift from exposed players like Townsend, Lloyd and Miles in their mid 20’s to younger depth with more possible upside in 2022. I would agree though, that for the Tigers to be any good in 2022, 4-5 of the younger players I have bolded above would have to offer something substantial in 2022. It may be a little early yet for that many to come through, but talent wise, the depth looks to be there.
 
Jack Green said:
If you don't get injuries like the Dees this year , your depth doesn't get tested. :thumbsu:
Click to expand...
*** FAKE NEWS ***
*** FAKE NEWS ***

That the Melbourne Demons did not require any "depth-testing" in the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season is one of the most egregious lies in modern history, akin to the baseless and hurtful conspiracy theories spouted on 8chan by tinfoil wearing arse-hats.

The Melbourne Demons absolutely required "depth-testing". Consider firstly that they commenced the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season without Key Position Forward Big Benny Brown, who ultimately missed more than half the season. Players of Ben's calibre don't simply "fall out of a trees"; his 1.9 goal-a-game average was equal to Joey "Big D" Danniher and Tom Lynch in 2021, his season culminating in a ripper 3 goal game in the grand final.

Midfield stars James Harmes and ex-captain Jack Viney missed a combined total of 17 games (FYI much more than Bulldogs duo Josh Dunkley and Adam Treloar missed throughout the season).

However it is the Melbourne Demons backline, aka the greatest defence in AFL history, which was the most devastated by injuries. We lost high-profile recruit Adam Tomlinson to a season-ending injury in round 3, replacing him with some guy named Harrison who had played less than a dozen games. Jayden "Torpedo King" Hunt's season was tragically cut short on the eve of finals, opening the door for debutant Jake Bowey. The backline was further compromised by Joel Smith's season ending in the qualifying final (after only three games), and injuries during the regular season to Christian Salem and Steven May, who due to lack of available defenders was forced to play the 2021 Toyota AFL Grand Final with a broken leg.

That we not only won the premiership having endured such a significant injury crisis, but triumphed in an historic, unprecedented demolition of the Western Bulldogs is not only credit to our brilliant team, but a testament to our wonderful depth.

Just because our supporters didn't whinge every single week about missing players like Western Bulldogs supporters did, it doesn't mean we "didn't get injuries".



Melbourne Demons are the best team in the AFL. And our depth kicks arse. We've proven this already.
 
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