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What are we lacking the most?

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Just thought I'd stimulate a little discussion. Both for interest and also to give us an idea what we should be targeting in the draft. What one thing are the Crows lacking the most? I guess I could allow multiple choices but let's go with the thing we are lacking the most. I was going to make versatility a choice but really, nobody's going to pick that so I'll let it go.

Is it:

Speed/Pace - either explosive or natural pace are powerful weapons in today's athletics-ruled AFL. The ability to burn off an opponent or run past a contest reduces the pressure on the ball carrier and is exciting to watch. Outside players aren't always the ones who win the ball but can be the most damaging when given the ball by a teammate.

Body Size/Height/Strength - bigger bodies make for a more imposing team. Premierships are won by teams with hard bodies, dominant and intimidating KPPs, and strong "in-and-under" midfielders.

Skills/Decision-making - the ability to select the correct target and execute the disposal is one of the most important and arguably the most pure part of Aussie Rules Football. Good decision making can make up for a lack of pace and good skills can put your teammate at an advantage.

Tackling/Defensive pressure - allowing your opposition time and space is a recipe for disaster. The best teams are those that make every disposal difficult and place implied pressure upon their opposition. Laying tackles and making them stick lifts the spirits of your teammates and scares your opposition from playing on.

Contested Marking - media commentators would have us believe the contested mark is dead, but it is still one of the most potent weapons a player can have, and one of the most exciting parts of the game to watch. A KPP player that can take a contested mark automatically becomes one of the most important players in the side, and a midfielder that can take a contested mark makes life easier on the ball carriers when starved of other options.

Goalkicking - I've listed this separately from skills because it seems even some skillful players have difficulty with goalkicking. Scoreboard pressure is one of the new buzzwords over the past few years and as cliched as it is, there is no denying that converting your oppurtunities places pressure on the opposition, whereas missing shots on goals deflates your teammates. Most important in forwards, it is also important to have goalkicking midfielders who can bomb a goal running into 50.

Fitness - the ability to be able to run and keep running is becoming more important with each passing year as the AFL sanctions rules to keep the game moving faster. In a competition that is becoming dominated by athletes there is a need to be able to run as fast in the last quarter as in the first quarter. Good fitness also helps the injury front, both because fit players are less likely to be injured, and should injuries occur, fewer players are left to carry the load.
 
I voted for contested marking, if you ask me that is one of our biggest floors having said that I could've voted for a few of the options, skills/decision making and speed were the other 2 closest IMO
 

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I would say that most teams look for a player that has good skills, good decision making, reasonable speed and competes well. This is where mids are going these days, so as a neutral supporter looking is, this is what I would think Adelaide, and the rest of the competition for that matter, would be looking at.
 
given the options i've gone decision making/Skills
with Skills in bold for me.

I agree that this is the area we need to work on most of all.


I voted for contested marking, if you ask me that is one of our biggest floors having said that I could've voted for a few of the options, skills/decision making and speed were the other 2 closest IMO

But contested marking is not really the norm of AFL football anymore. You see teams kick it backward or go handball crazy just to free someone up and avoid kicking it to a contest. This is not an Adelaide thing; it’s an entire AFL thing. Every team would be down on contested marking.
 
having said that I could've voted for a few of the options, skills/decision making and speed were the other 2 closest IMO

I guess that was the point of this thread, really we need all of the things I listed and all are, to some degree, of similar importance. I'm just wondering where our biggest deficiency was.


I could probably have got a more informative answer by allowing multiple replies, and then most people would have picked three or four options. But I wanted to see whether, when given one choice, there would be a spread of answers or a couple of key areas identified.
 
I've gone goal kicking and just to elaborate on that, I think we need a few more "natural" goalkickers, blokes who can create their own goals and don't rely on perfect delivery from the midfield. We used to have a number of these, ie Modra, Jarman, Vardy, Bond, Welsh, Mcleod can do it although I prefer him in defence, Roo could as well, Hentschel also has this ability, Porplyzia and I guess Burton also. Now I think we've got a couple coming through in Walker and Tippet, Dangerfield too might also be able to do this, however 1 or 2 others wouldn't go astray, especially in the small forward/midfielder mould and I wouldn't say no to another decent KPF prospect, am just so sick and tired of not having a decent one.

You need to be able to take your chances in this day and age of football, no matter how good they are. This was one of the differences between Hawthorn and Geelong in the GF IMHO, Hawthorn had the class goalkickers who took their opportunities when they needed too, no matter the pressure that was on them, the Geelong players didn't.

Contested marking I don't think we're doing to bad in actually, Tippet is a gun in this department, both Bock and Rutten can hold their own, Moran is no slouch, Porplyzia and Gill can also take a grab, even Douglas.

What we do need and will happen as our youngsters get older is a bit more body size and presence around the ground, you look at Geelong and Hawthorn, us in '05/'06 very strong side who all stuck their tackles as well as having the ability to break them.

Skill are always important, however IMO a lot of this comes down to the right structures being in place around the ground. NC's gameplans quite often require absolutely perfect disposal, his structures are based around this, however, add some pressure and this can all go to shit, no matter how skilled the player. So many times in the past couple of years I've seen our players running forward, only to have either no one to kick to at all, ie 70m out and the closest bloke to the goals being 60m out, or 3 on 1 situations where Richard Douglas is the 1. If we can fix this up, give the midfielders a couple of genuine tall forwards to kick to, so they can have some confidence going forward and I think we'll see our skills improve immensly, without having to recruit any "super-skilled" players.

Speed/Pace, always comes in handy, however I think we've identified this and have put a little extra weighting on pace over the past year or so.
 
I went with skills and decision making, personally. While I put them in the same category, I actually see them as two different problems for us. Take Brent Reilly for example, who has exemplary skills but who's decision making isn't the best.

We have a lot of servicable players but not enough players with great disposal skills, or players who can make quick decisions. As a result we end up with two problems, 1) we too often get into a situation where we are forced to hold up play, and then not kick to advantage, and 2) our few players with good skills are identified and hampered by scraggers, completely eliminating their effectiveness and leaving our most ineffective disposers to get the majority of possessions.

I've always been of the opinion that while pace is very important, good decision making and skills trumps pace in the middle of the ground, and it's something we need more of.



You make a great case for goalkicking James, which would be my second choice. It will be interesting to see how Porplyzia and Walker go over the next few years, they certainly have the potential to turn into goal manufacturing machines, though I still can't help but feel that Porplyzia's best football has to be in the centre square, with only rest periods up forward.
 
I've gone goal kicking and just to elaborate on that, I think we need a few more "natural" goalkickers, blokes who can create their own goals and don't rely on perfect delivery from the midfield. We used to have a number of these, ie Modra, Jarman, Vardy, Bond, Welsh, Mcleod can do it although I prefer him in defence, Roo could as well, Hentschel also has this ability, Porplyzia and I guess Burton also. Now I think we've got a couple coming through in Walker and Tippet, Dangerfield too might also be able to do this, however 1 or 2 others wouldn't go astray, especially in the small forward/midfielder mould and I wouldn't say no to another decent KPF prospect, am just so sick and tired of not having a decent one.

You need to be able to take your chances in this day and age of football, no matter how good they are. This was one of the differences between Hawthorn and Geelong in the GF IMHO, Hawthorn had the class goalkickers who took their opportunities when they needed too, no matter the pressure that was on them, the Geelong players didn't.

Contested marking I don't think we're doing to bad in actually, Tippet is a gun in this department, both Bock and Rutten can hold their own, Moran is no slouch, Porplyzia and Gill can also take a grab, even Douglas.

What we do need and will happen as our youngsters get older is a bit more body size and presence around the ground, you look at Geelong and Hawthorn, us in '05/'06 very strong side who all stuck their tackles as well as having the ability to break them.

Skill are always important, however IMO a lot of this comes down to the right structures being in place around the ground. NC's gameplans quite often require absolutely perfect disposal, his structures are based around this, however, add some pressure and this can all go to shit, no matter how skilled the player. So many times in the past couple of years I've seen our players running forward, only to have either no one to kick to at all, ie 70m out and the closest bloke to the goals being 60m out, or 3 on 1 situations where Richard Douglas is the 1. If we can fix this up, give the midfielders a couple of genuine tall forwards to kick to, so they can have some confidence going forward and I think we'll see our skills improve immensly, without having to recruit any "super-skilled" players.

Speed/Pace, always comes in handy, however I think we've identified this and have put a little extra weighting on pace over the past year or so.

Yeah, well said!! :thumbsu:

Covers it nicely from my point of view.
 
I went with skills and decision making, personally. While I put them in the same category, I actually see them as two different problems for us. Take Brent Reilly for example, who has exemplary skills but who's decision making isn't the best.

We have a lot of servicable players but not enough players with great disposal skills, or players who can make quick decisions. As a result we end up with two problems, 1) we too often get into a situation where we are forced to hold up play, and then not kick to advantage, and 2) our few players with good skills are identified and hampered by scraggers, completely eliminating their effectiveness and leaving our most ineffective disposers to get the majority of possessions.

I've always been of the opinion that while pace is very important, good decision making and skills trumps pace in the middle of the ground, and it's something we need more of.



You make a great case for goalkicking James, which would be my second choice. It will be interesting to see how Porplyzia and Walker go over the next few years, they certainly have the potential to turn into goal manufacturing machines, though I still can't help but feel that Porplyzia's best football has to be in the centre square, with only rest periods up forward.

Yeah agree about Porplyzia, can't wait to see him in the centre square again, however I think he can play the role which D. Jarman played a bit back in the '90s for us where he would play in the midfield and rest up forward, with the ability to go forward more permanently and play a match winning role if required.

Also I'd say Porplyzia is the embodiment of your 3rd paragraph, not particularly athletic, but just has a great footy brain which means he doesn't need it, Vince IMO is similar.
 
Also I'd say Porplyzia is the embodiment of your 3rd paragraph, not particularly athletic, but just has a great footy brain which means he doesn't need it, Vince IMO is similar.

I agree with Vince, one other thing I really liked about him this year (it stood out earlier in the year more than later I think) was that he had gotten himself stronger around the packs. If he improves this preseason as much as he did last preseason he will be a very good player.
 

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I'm going to go for goal kicking. While Taylor Walker and Kurt Tippet are likely to be gun forwards, they could turn out to be duds, just look at Sellar :p. We've also been crying out for a forward ever since Modra left, and had we had one 05 06 would've been our grannie wins.

Although it wouldn't be bad to have a bunch of midfielders that are good (between average and elite, think porplyzia This year) we are in dire need of a decent forward and obtaining won would be our key to a premiership within 3-5 years.
 
The options Jimmy Bartel, Gary Ablett, Luke Hodge, Lance Franklin and Adam Cooney all appeared to be missing?

I think we are missing star power. The fact that the likes of Bock and Thompson are considered our best players now says it all; they are good solid players, but not a patch on Ricciuto and McLeod in their prime.

Here's hoping some of our younger players can reach that level at some point.
 
IMO we are too reliant on Perfect Footy

we need some natural attacking flair and some game breakers
 
You lot need a less sterile coach.
We need one that is a tad more sterile.
We both need recruiters that stop placing so much importance on athleticism and put a bit more emphasis on skills and footy brains.
 
IMO we are too reliant on Perfect Footy

we need some natural attacking flair and some game breakers

Can't disagree with this at all.

You lot need a less sterile coach.
We need one that is a tad more sterile.
We both need recruiters that stop placing so much importance on athleticism and put a bit more emphasis on skills and footy brains.

Nah, we just need a recruiter who can pick a half decent player with his first round pick!
 
Skills and decision making is the key.

Lets take the grand finalists, whilst they have some stars they are great teams because they hit targets with their disposal and make the right decisions out of defense, through the centre and up forward. Along with this comes good communication and as such the ability to protect the ball carrier and open up space.

Second for mine is toughness.
Both Haks and Cats have strong bodies who can lay tackles and protect their team mates with the ball. Strong bodies makes it easier to take contested marks.

Yes pace is good but we have some players with pace, contested marking and goal kicking come with the top 2. Under pressure if decision making is poor, skills are shoddy and you get pushed off the ball you loose the match, simple
 

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... Nah, we just need a recruiter who can pick a half decent player with his first round pick!
Tell you what.
Name all the good players you have drafted and a number of us will come up with possible reasons why they didn't go in the first round. :)
 
We need a game breaker... We dont really have a guy who can win a match by himself and pull the whole team over the line at the moment.. From the list Id say skills/decision making. Geelong don't really have a tonne of speed in the midfield- its just their skills are so bloody good. They move it so quickly and precisely. Same with Hawthorn- both of them have skills a cut above the rest.
 
I stumbled across this on the Crows' website this morning:

Hard working Crows ready for reward
By Katrina Gill
Tue 14 October, 2008

ANY PLAYER set to join Adelaide in next month’s NAB AFL Draft should prepare for some seriously hard yakka.

Crows coach Neil Craig makes no apologies for exposing his young players to what could, at times, be considered unfair workloads. In fact, he sees a superior work rate as his team’s best chance of success.

And he’s confident the club is close to bearing the fruits of the hard labour already endured by the playing group during his four-year tenure, particularly when it comes to the midfield.

The Crows’ onball brigade, often referred to as ‘workman-like’, is not as star-studded as that of teams like Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton and boasts no top-ten draft picks in its midfield.

Scott Thompson, who was traded by Melbourne for pick 12 in the 2004 NAB AFL Draft, and Brent Reilly (also selected with pick 12 in 2001) are the only first-round selections with a regular role in the Crows’ engine room.

And Craig, who has vowed never to let his side bottom out in exchange for early draft picks, concedes Adelaide has had to re-develop its midfield the old fashioned way: through patience and hard work.

“I think we have got some potential elite midfielders and we’ve had to develop them,” Craig said.

“We’ve had to work them and put them under, maybe, unfair workloads in a lot of cases, but that’s because we do it different.


“We haven’t finished bottom to get the number one midfielders in the competitions.”

Veterans Simon Goodwin, Tyson Edwards, Andrew McLeod and, until recently, Mark Ricciuto have carried Adelaide’s midfield over the past decade, but a new group has started to emerge from under their wings.

Nathan van Berlo ran out the season strongly to finish top-ten in Adelaide’s best and fairest, while Bernie Vince well and truly arrived on the AFL stage when he claimed the Showdown Medal in round three.

Craig believes youngsters, such as Vince and van Berlo, are on the brink of taking their games to the next level.

“I thought what Nathan van Berlo started to do this year indicated to me that he could be a really high possession, hard running type midfielder, and I still think Richard Douglas can go into the midfield,” Craig said.

“I think Bernie Vince has got the attributes to be a [blue-chip midfielder], but he’s still coming to terms with the absolute hard running and physical aspect of the game … and the there’s Chris Knights, who before he injured his hamstring, I thought played three games in a row that were elite midfield games.”

Highly rated teenager Patrick Dangerfield, who will make the full-time move to Adelaide next month, is the only top-10 draft pick on Adelaide’s playing list and Craig is hopeful he and a handful of the club’s other recent recruits can make an impact in 2009.

“We’ve got a young kid called David Mackay. Now, he’s not an elite midfielder at the moment, but I’ve seen him do some things and, even in the elimination final, I saw some movements there that suggested to me he’s going to be an elite-type player,” Craig said.

“And we haven’t even seen Patrick Dangerfield yet, so we don’t know about him, but from what I’ve seen on the training track, he’s got that glint in his eye and that will be exciting for our supporters to see next year.”

So Craig does acknowledge that we don't really have any game breakers in our side, but some 'potential elite midfielders'. I especially liked what he had to say about David Mackay :thumbsu:
 
So with Massie gone we don't have even one single-digit draft pick left on our list? I wonder if that has ever happened before to any team since about 3 years after the draft started.
 
“We’ve had to work them and put them under, maybe, unfair workloads in a lot of cases, but that’s because we do it different.

“We haven’t finished bottom to get the number one midfielders in the competitions.”


Next he will say you haven't had any first round picks and some of the faithful will believe him.

Picks 8 and 12 in 2004,
Picks 16 and 17 in 2005,
Pick 14 in 2006 and
Pick 10 in 2007


Port
Picks 11 and 19 in 2004,
Pick 14 in 2005,
Pick 5 in 2006 and
Pick 16 in 2007
 

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