What do we do up Fwd

[Vader]

For starters actually play your best tall forward option in the forward line. If Craig says he is going to be our future forward option then why play him in the ruck. If we are trying to build a team for the future play the guys NOW where you wish to play them in the future.

Griffen and Maric in the ruck, Tippett PERMANENTLY as a forward.

For years I took the P out of hack coach Grant Thomas for wasting Kossie in the ruck, now my own Super Coach is doing the same thing. Karma.

Tippett plays in the ruck because he's our best ruckman and it's also the position in which he has performed best. He may have been recruited primarily as a key forward, but right now he's a better ruckman than forward.

Thomas played Kosi in the ruck because he had no choice. He didn't rate ruckmen at all and refused to recruit any - Lyon had to trade for King, Clarke & Gardiner to rebuild their non-existent ruck division. Kosi is an ordinary ruckman and a better than average forward, so playing him in the ruck hurt them. You were right to laugh at GT, because this situation came about as a result of his own idiocy.

Neil Craig on the other hand is coaching to the strength of his players. What more do you want?

Bring back Gill and use him as the lead-up CHF.

If Gill is the answer then you're asking the wrong question.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Totally agree clearances were a disgrace.

However, we have to plan for actually winning the ball at some stage!!

Tippett at CHF is a big piece to the puzzle that allows for decisive and incisive movement forward from packs...we know we have something to kick to and where it will approximately be and the ball wont come back over our heads 10 seconds later every time!

The new CHF isnt a stand static and get crunched (this is more like the role we have at FF). Rather it is likely to be a 1v1 or 1v2 leading contest but in heavy traffic in the nearby vacinity...perfect for Tippett with the 'basketball skills' and tank.


Or we can continue having no decent realistic chanc of going forward (unless we magically muster this free-flowing quick game despite the fact there is an opposition out there who flood our half-forward line knowing we have no targets, we stop and prop, and we are not as skillful as Geelong and therefore will cough the ball up).

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I also see Tippett doing the ruck contests in forward half of ground thus giving us much better goal opportunities from stoppages.

Allows our ruck to play more traditional kick behind play and contribute to chocking up the defensive space. Once the ball down there they should contribute in the air and thru possessions like any other player.

 

[Stiffy_18]

First things first.

Before we even look at our forward line we have to sort out our clearances. We got beaten 42-22 overall and 16-7 out of the centre. That is the biggest annihilation I can ever remember. No forward has even the slightest chance of succeeding under these circumstances.

With the defensive zones and more and more numbers behind the ball, winning the clearances is more important than ever. And beyond just winning them, having some quick, decisive and incisive movement from them. That is almost your only opportunity to have 1-1 or 2-2 contests up forward. Or for your forwards to have any space to work into.

If we get beaten 42-22 at the clearances it won't matter who we've got up forward. It won't matter what structure we use. We will lose every single game.

Nail! Hammer! Head!

ABsolutly spot on. Before we start bagging the forward line we need to fix up the areas that make the forward line ineffective.

The stoppage work, the clearences and the defensive pressure further up the ground are things that make life easier for both our forwards and defenders. If you win a quick clearence out of the centre, your forwards will have a field day. People will bag Rutten for his game on Tredrea last night but **** me, there wasn's a full back in the competition that could have done too much better with the sort of ball and space he was given in the 1st half.

We got smashed in clearences, our forward movement was slow and Port's defensive schemes were executed brilliantly to the point where it made our forward's job impossible. If anything, its a bloody credit to Porplyzia for kicking 3 goals last night.

I like our rotations through the forward line. Tippett is taken out of the game easily when he is a permanent forward but can be great in the dual role so I would persist with that. Walker is good on the lead but FFS do more than just look for cheap goals out the back.

One thing I would like to see more of is Petrenko in the forward line. In fact I would be very tempted to bring in Jacky and have him and Petrenko play in the forward line with Porplyzia, and rotating tall forwards in Tippett, Walker and Stevens. A lot more pace and X factor there.

But you are right, fix up the clearence work and ball movement and you will be surprised how much better the forward line looks.

 

[crowsup]

Nail! Hammer! Head!

ABsolutly spot on. Before we start bagging the forward line we need to fix up the areas that make the forward line ineffective.

The stoppage work, the clearences and the defensive pressure further up the ground are things that make life easier for both our forwards and defenders. If you win a quick clearence out of the centre, your forwards will have a field day. People will bag Rutten for his game on Tredrea last night but **** me, there wasn's a full back in the competition that could have done too much better with the sort of ball and space he was given in the 1st half.

We got smashed in clearences, our forward movement was slow and Port's defensive schemes were executed brilliantly to the point where it made our forward's job impossible. If anything, its a bloody credit to Porplyzia for kicking 3 goals last night.

I like our rotations through the forward line. Tippett is taken out of the game easily when he is a permanent forward but can be great in the dual role so I would persist with that. Walker is good on the lead but FFS do more than just look for cheap goals out the back.

One thing I would like to see more of is Petrenko in the forward line. In fact I would be very tempted to bring in Jacky and have him and Petrenko play in the forward line with Porplyzia, and rotating tall forwards in Tippett, Walker and Stevens. A lot more pace and X factor there.

But you are right, fix up the clearence work and ball movement and you will be surprised how much better the forward line looks.

I definitely could not have put it better myself. Well Stated.

 

[atcocc]

I think we should bring in Moran.

Between him and tippet we can have one at chf using their athletic ability and the other at ff using their size and marking ability to worry the opposition defenders. They can both also rotate through the ruck (maybe 15% - 20% for Moran and 10% - 15% for tippet)

This will hopefully straighten us up and give us something to kick to coming out of defense. It also means we only have to play one of griffin or maric (hopefully we can sttle on or the other soon).

Additionally it takes the heat off of porps and walker and relegates them to third and fourth defenders which A) is the role more suited to porps and B)Helps walkers development beause he wont have one of the best defenders every week. However, I think walker needs to be sent back to the sanfl for a couple of weeks with VERY SPECIFIC goals to achieve, that once he achieves will be bought back in to the team.

Finally peterenko and dangerfeild need to occupy the remaining two positions only moving out as a rotation through the midfield or to the bench. They provide great pressure and can bob up for a couple of goals here and there.

Therefore the fwd set up looks like:

FF: Porps Moran Walker
CHF: Petrenko Tippet Dangerfeild

PS Smack or Sellar could also be given a chance if or when form dictates and once burton is well and truly ready he will slot straight back in. (Do not rush him back)

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

First things first.

Before we even look at our forward line we have to sort out our clearances. We got beaten 42-22 overall and 16-7 out of the centre. That is the biggest annihilation I can ever remember. No forward has even the slightest chance of succeeding under these circumstances.

With the defensive zones and more and more numbers behind the ball, winning the clearances is more important than ever. And beyond just winning them, having some quick, decisive and incisive movement from them. That is almost your only opportunity to have 1-1 or 2-2 contests up forward. Or for your forwards to have any space to work into.

If we get beaten 42-22 at the clearances it won't matter who we've got up forward. It won't matter what structure we use. We will lose every single game.

agree, however you can fix the clearance issue in a week, last night it all came down to attitude

look at Port they are ranked 16th in the league for clearance and last night they spanked us in this area, why because there attitude and desire was greater than ours

This can be addressed and fixed immediately however the Forward line might take some time

 

[TheGriff6]

The Problem with our Forward line is our game plan is awfull we waste far to much time in the back half and we get to just forward of the wing and stop but i dont know why people are suprised i mean since we appointed the fittness coach as our head coach we have never been attacking i dont think he has the CAPACITY to play an attacking style of game

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

So did our forward line not function because of poor stoppage work, slow ball movement or poor structure, well in my opinion all these aspects have dependencies on each other and need to be addressed collectively

The bottom line is we have rarely kicked 100+ scores over the past 18 months and we need to make multiple changes now or risk our development as a side

Stoppages

We not only got smashed by the 16th ranked team in this area but it was the manner in which we got smashed smashed that was the main concerns, Port continually ran the ball with ease under lminimal pressure from a stoppage situation.

Yes our ruckman got smashed however we have the players on the deck to play to an opposition ruckman, Collingwood led stoppages for 2 season straight when Fraser was ranked near the bottom for hitouts, our players Vince, Thompson, Dangerfield, VB, Radar, Proplyzia, Edwards all have the ability to adjust there stoppage work to a opposition winning ruckman so we should not fix ourselves on having a losing ruckman as the issue.

The issue was attitude and desire to compete, this can be addressed immediately and I expect a immediate response next week against the Bullies.

Zone

The next issue is the zone, I am not saying to throw the zone away however it is obvious that when we do zone we zone back too deep in our defence, we have a back 6 as good as any other in the league and there should be no need to zone back so deep.

By adjusting our zone it will ensure that we maintain our forward structure so when we do move the ball quickly we have a forward structure to go to with confidence.

Slow Ball Movement

There is no doubt that our ball movement is slow and safe and until we fix this who in hell would want to be a forward in our side.

My opinion is that after 2-3 seasons of playing with a defensive mindset our players are stuck in trying to play a safe perfect possession style of football.

We certainly have the players to attack however they keep falling back to old habbits against quality sides...

NC coaching philosphy has always been do your defening first then attack, maybe it's time to flip that around and change the players mindset to win the ball and attack first, defend second when we are not in possession of the ball........

It sounds simple almost stupid but we need to change the players mindset and instinct to a more natural attacking mentality

Forward Structure

Tippett must and is ready to play CHF, I am from the old school, CHF is the most important position on the ground and this is why it is hardest to play.

Yes it would be great to have two Kurt Tippett's but we dont, the truth is we have other options for ruck however limited options for CHF.

Kurt will not only straighten us up he will create space behind him and the smalls can play front and square knowing if Kurt does not mark the ball he will bring the ball to the front of the contest.

Kurt is the key to our forward structure now and for the future.

To support Kurt I am not in favour of playing defenders or ruckman as part time forward, we have been down this path too often and it might be the right short term strategy however we should be focusing on long term, no more Bock or Moran up forward as we need to keep persisting with Natural forwards not make shift forwards.

Hentchel must come back when ready as this will assist Walker greatly, Taylor needs to play next to an experienced big bodied forward, Hentchel and Tippett up forward would be a blessing for Taylor in his first couple of years of AFL footy

I also believe that we are rotating too many on ballers through the forward line and this is unsettling, I would like to see Dangerfield, Petrenko and Cook spend more time up forward instead of rotating on ballers through at the current rate

All these issues need to be addressed collectively

 

[King Elvis]

The best forward line in the League would struggle with the shit that our midfield give our guys to work with.

We may as well drop Walker to the SANFL (even Norwood would give him better, quick delivery), and play Tippett in the ruck, because our Forward line is a waste of time at the moment.

Until they get quick ball movement when the opposition doesn't have time to flood the crap out of our forward line, then it's a waste.

 

[Wood_Duck]

As many have said we could have Buddy Franklin and Jarred Roughead up forward and we could make them look like very average footballers. Sadly I dont see our game changing dramatically anytime soon.

If we are going to continue to deliver the ball into our forward lines like we have been we have no choice but to play some bigger bodies up there in the hope of taking some contested marks.

Tippet must become a full time forward. How the hell can we have any forward line structure when our first choice full forward is only there for part of the game???

Now this one is a little bit out of left field, but Id like to see it. Truck looks to have become unsuited to Full Back. He does not have the mobility or pace to compete with the current Full Forwards. He is very strong under the ball, but with the exception of the Crows that is not how people deliver the ball forward anymore. There are no more Lockett, Sav Rocca type forwards. For me I'd play Stevens at FB and Truck at FF.

Clearly we are going to continue to bomb the ball to our forwards we could do with Trucks big body under the ball which he is suited to.

Stevens is quicker and more mobile so I think better suited as a modern day FB.

Let the flaming begin.

 

[WALL-e]

Having played forward I can honestly say I'm glad I'm not a forward in the AFL.

Timing of leads is an artform and when you piss fart around with it and then after 17 leads for nothing you get a lolipop pass and proceed to get crunched for your efforts.

We have to try and get it in quicker and conceed we may turn it over.

 

[WALL-e]

We also play a forward line that's far far far too SMALL

 

[Crow-mo]

If Gill wasn't injury prone and our game plan wasn't crap for CHF's then yes he is definitely the best CHF option we have. Unfortunately, reality dictates that even if he is fit, we wont use him in the best manner, and so his usefulness going forward is limited.

probably a fair comment.

It is time to bring in Moran. Has shown glimpses of natural forward ability, can swing back (though that would be the weakest string on his bow), and will easily be our best ruck (after Tippett) around the ground. Maric needs to get back into form before he comes back in. Calls for his inclusion are premature given his season thus far. Maric had 4 games, of which one or two were passable. Griffin needs the same opportunity but I'd say yesterday was worth 2 chances lost because he was that disgraceful, so only one more match for him!

as much as it pains me, and I may be found overdosed on nurofen having said this, I agree maybe its time to play moran up forward. he is a terrible ruckman, really ordinary but you're right he has shown a but up forward, and it would be worth seeing what he can offer if given a couple of games up there.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

I'd be having a closer look at the midfield coach who's players chip the ball around then put the ball high up in the air rather than out in front. Forwards had no chance.

My god I am agreeing with a Port supporter Been saying it for years the way we deliver it into the forward line we could have Jesus at Full Forward and he wouldn't get a sniff.

 

[kirky]

First things first.

Before we even look at our forward line we have to sort out our clearances. We got beaten 42-22 overall and 16-7 out of the centre. That is the biggest annihilation I can ever remember. No forward has even the slightest chance of succeeding under these circumstances.

With the defensive zones and more and more numbers behind the ball, winning the clearances is more important than ever. And beyond just winning them, having some quick, decisive and incisive movement from them. That is almost your only opportunity to have 1-1 or 2-2 contests up forward. Or for your forwards to have any space to work into.

If we get beaten 42-22 at the clearances it won't matter who we've got up forward. It won't matter what structure we use. We will lose every single game.

Even though we lost these (and that needs analysis), we still got 50 inside 50s, so that also needs to be remedied and a proper forward structure is required and whoever said:-

Walker Hentschel Porps
Dangerfield Tippett Petrenko

was spot on.

I only hope that someone at the club reads what we say here on BF and take it on board.

 

[ltdamn]

probably a fair comment.



as much as it pains me, and I may be found overdosed on nurofen having said this, I agree maybe its time to play moran up forward. he is a terrible ruckman, really ordinary but you're right he has shown a but up forward, and it would be worth seeing what he can offer if given a couple of games up there.

Spot on, Moran is the sort of player (as is Hentschel) who needs to be matched up when in the forward 50, which makes it harder for teams to cover Tex and Tippett at the same time. IMO, we are missing Trent a lot right now for this reason and his injury was a bigger blow than most would have thought.

This is also why when Davis, McKernan, Sellar (if) mature into decent KPP's we'll have a forward line worth getting very excited about.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

agree, however you can fix the clearance issue in a week, last night it all came down to attitude

look at Port they are ranked 16th in the league for clearance and last night they spanked us in this area, why because there attitude and desire was greater than ours

This can be addressed and fixed immediately however the Forward line might take some time

Port are not the worst clearance team in the league. Forget this season's stats. They didn't turn up for two of the first five rounds which would skew them significantly. For a long time the Lade/Brogan combination with guys like Peter Burgoyne, Shaun Burgoyne, David Rodan etc has been superb. They seem to almost have a telepathic understanding.

I know Craig said in the post match press conference that it comes down to attitude but I reckon that is BS. Port got more clearances because of their in close skills, their ball handling under pressure, their awareness of where players are, their ability to read the ball off hands, instinctive quick handballs, ability to break tackles etc.

Too simplistic for mine to just say "Try Harder = Win Clearances"

It is a clear deficiency that will be very difficult to address as I'm not sure we have any personnel whose main strength is at the stoppages.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Even though we lost these (and that needs analysis), we still got 50 inside 50s, so that also needs to be remedied and a proper forward structure is required and whoever said:-

Walker Hentschel Porps
Dangerfield Tippett Petrenko

was spot on.

I only hope that someone at the club reads what we say here on BF and take it on board.

This stat last night was irrelevant. Its the quality Vs quantity debate. Our inside 50s gave no hope to our forwards. None. Port had better delivery, actually infinitely better delivery due to their quick ball movement and centre square dominance. Our backline didn't have enough time to set up and they had the ball coming out of the centre into space to their direct opponent. Compare that to our, chip it around, wait for the defence to set then bomb it long to a contest where we are outnumbered by a ration of 3:1.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

This stat last night was irrelevant. Its the quality Vs quantity debate. Our inside 50s gave no hope to our forwards. None. Port had better delivery, actually infinitely better delivery due to their quick ball movement and centre square dominance. Our backline didn't have enough time to set up and they had the ball coming out of the centre into space to their direct opponent. Compare that to our, chip it around, wait for the defence to set then bomb it long to a contest where we are outnumbered by a ration of 3:1.

Totally agree that the inside 50 stats last night were massively misleading due to their inferior quality.

I also totally agree our midfielders were disgraceful as a whole in the square and at clearances around the ground. This issue needs a lot of work and will also come down to putting the right personnel in the right positions.

However, the old 'chicken and egg' argument of whether we blame the mids or forwards for our crappy entry and scoring is obviously a both/and answer imo.

My contention is that one major factor which will help the mids attack with confidence and far less indecision is a decent forward structure!

Tippett at CHF is the centrepiece of this plan but NOT as part of the current structure which has the CHF spending half their time at CHB, FF in the centre of the ground, and with 10 players on the full back line Hey i am all for using zoning to a point, i agree with getting back to help the defence and i agree forwards need to push up at times BUT newsflash coaches...we need to score something to win! Even if its skeleton staff (3 players) lets at least always have a forward line structure ready for the 'fast break'.

The other benefit to Tippett at CHF as opposed to FF is he will less often get the huge bomb on his head, and he has 360 degrees of options as to which space or direction he can lead into...would be some nervous coaches planning to combat quick movement into the dangerous Tippett in the crucial part of the ground. Currently opposition coaches must be absolutely in hysterics with the Crows gameplan...so easily beaten with our players...and yes the exact same gameplan will still be beaten in 2 years in its current format because we will be unlikely to score consistently enough, round to round, to be contenders.

C'mon coaches, dont throw everything out, just give it a substantial tweak!!!

 

[twentydollarnote]

Agree with stiffy and Theleftfist the fact that its a acceptable part of our game plan to bomb to the top of the square on a regular basis to a pack of 20 means questions need to be asked of the coaching staff.

Springy, gill has only got a game as a replacement for hentschel who was a pretty big loss for us looking back. Without injury he would be our CHF now and probably a top 5 player for us.