What I'd want for Ottens...

[Tigerrific]

We paid picks 6 and 22 for Brownie last year. With Ottens being a big man he should be worth more.
This is what I'd be looking for from a few of the possible contenders...

Geelong Tom Harley (or maybe Mooney) and their first round pick.

Sydney Ryan O'Keefe and their 1st rounder.

St Kilda Luke Ball as a straight swap.

Adelaide There's not much there that would be really useful to us and they have said they want to keep their first round pick. Maybe Brent Reilly and either Ian Perrie or Trent Hentschel and their 2nd round pick.

Collingwood Maybe Guy Richards and a first round pick.

Essendon Perhaps we could give Ottens and Blumfield for Dean Solomon and a 2nd round pick.

What would you think is a fair trade for a big man in his prime?

 

[Dasher39]

We paid picks 6 and 22 for Brownie last year. With Ottens being a big man he should be worth more.
This is what I'd be looking for from a few of the possible contenders...

Geelong Tom Harley (or maybe Mooney) and their first round pick.


You have got to be joking. That is the most laughable thing I have ever read. Ottens, while I want him, has never been anything more than potential, and you all know it. Tom Harley is one of the premier CHB in the league. A straight swap Harley for Ottens is dumb enough, let alone adding a first round pick into the equation.

If thats what you want for him then you are a bigger joke than your club!!

 

[Tigerrific]

You have got to be joking. That is the most laughable thing I have ever read. Ottens, while I want him, has never been anything more than potential, and you all know it. Tom Harley is one of the premier CHB in the league. A straight swap Harley for Ottens is dumb enough, let alone adding a first round pick into the equation.

If thats what you want for him then you are a bigger joke than your club!!

Geelong must rate Ottens more highly than Harley if they are willing to pay him so much! I'll bet harley isn't anywhere near the reported $500k per year that you guys are offering.

As Miller said "If you want him you have to pay a big price"

 

[nananana catman]

As Miller said "If you want him you have to pay a big price"

Keep him urself and pay him 500k a year. You must rate him higher than .....
hmm bad example, not much worth rating down at tigerland is there?

Also, given some of those abovementioned trades you must really not rate Harley.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

harley wont be in the trade, that is just wishfull thinking. it will be a 1st rounder and a good young player i reckon. but please cat fans, excuse us, one of our big name players has just walked out and we recently won the wooden spoon. let us dream a little? i dont mind if he dominates for you guys as long as we do at least equally well out of the deal.

 

[nananana catman]

harley wont be in the trade, that is just wishfull thinking. it will be a 1st rounder and a good young player i reckon. but please cat fans, excuse us, one of our big name players has just walked out and we recently won the wooden spoon. let us dream a little? i dont mind if he dominates for you guys as long as we do at least equally well out of the deal.

Not too disimilar to Geelong when Colbert and Ayres left at the same time, could be the best thing that happened to your club...whilst we are on fair deals, First, Second and Enright?

 

[BigCat1]

Geelong must rate Ottens more highly than Harley if they are willing to pay him so much! I'll bet harley isn't anywhere near the reported $500k per year that you guys are offering.

As Miller said "If you want him you have to pay a big price"

Lets just say he's getting 600K.

He turned down Syd's offer of 450-500K in favour of our offer of 400K.

Harley and or 1st pick is ridiculous. How about I counter than with Spriggs and Rahilly. I mean lets be serious.

PS I wouldn't be placing blind faith in Miller. The man's been a walking contradiction since he joined Rich. He's made a lot of noise but in the end hasn't delivered on most things.

 

[Tigerrific]

Lets just say he's getting 600K.

He turned down Syd's offer of 450-500K in favour of our offer of 400K.

Harley and or 1st pick is ridiculous. How about I counter than with Spriggs and Rahilly. I mean lets be serious.

PS I wouldn't be placing blind faith in Miller. The man's been a walking contradiction since he joined Rich. He's made a lot of noise but in the end hasn't delivered on most things.

Your first pick is pick 16... It's not as if you can offer us a high draft pick.

 

[hotdogandsauce]

alright lets just confirm something 600k he wasnt getting!!!!!!!

now the cats believe they are between 11.00-1.00 on micks flag clock otherwise they wouldnt have approached his management about securing his services.

cats need someone to kick goals he could easily kick 60-80 goals that would lead you to believe that cats think he is your man, you are offering 400k-450k to him, much better than 300k-350k we had on offer so at this stage you guys are doing the chasing so i suggest you guys come up with something worthwhile...

also greg miller and co were always gonna offer him that much way b4 he knew about it why do you think it was in media circles so as to see who might be keen on him, straight away we have had the swans, cats, come out and say they are interested, so greg has played a masterful stroke again.

just as there were smokes and mirrors with wallace, the same thing again has happened with ottens, it helps to have connections in the media, they will do anything for a story as per all this week about what was gonna happen with ottens, who do you think was leaking the stories..

game set and match, miller aint no dumb bunny....

 

[jezza]

Not too disimilar to Geelong when Colbert and Ayres left at the same time, could be the best thing that happened to your club...whilst we are on fair deals, First, Second and Enright?

I think that's what a lot of us are thinking, it's a good opportunity to further rebuild the club. It may cause a bit more hurt in the short term, but it will probably pay off in the longer run as long as we are patient and can keep a big group of kids coming through together. I think the way Geelong have developed to where they are now if the ideal model we should be following.

First, second and Enright would sound reasonable to me. There are a lot of good players at Geelong I'd like to get, but most would be must-keep type players.

 

[BigCat1]

You've got to be joking. I think Miller has sucked you all in

Our first two picks + Enright. The kid has been injured all year coming off a season where he was 2nd in the B&F at 22.

I'd give you Enright and our 1st pick but that's about it

 

[JohnF]

I'll take the first two draft picks off any club for Brad Notthens.

Not interested in any player that is in his 20's. Nothing but cubs.

 

[madtiger2005]

No thanks to Spriggs or the 2 Coreys. Don't want midsized mediocre players, we have enough of them lol. Geelong are a hard working team, but they only have about 5 players that I'd be serious about having. As individuals I think they are way off St kilda. Give is Hunt and Tenace at least.

 

[BigCat1]

No thanks to Spriggs or the 2 Coreys. Don't want midsized mediocre players, we have enough of them lol. Geelong are a hard working team, but they only have about 5 players that I'd be serious about having. As individuals I think they are way off St kilda. Give is Hunt and Tenace at least.

Mate Corey and Enright are twice as good as Hunt. Yes Hunt is the best kick in the comp but against the good teams he gets exposed for pace and overhead skills. He's still young so I would be loathed to give him up but I'd keep both Enright and Corey before him. If that's what it takes to get Ottens then come on down

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

No thanks to Spriggs or the 2 Coreys. Don't want midsized mediocre players, we have enough of them lol. Geelong are a hard working team, but they only have about 5 players that I'd be serious about having. As individuals I think they are way off St kilda. Give is Hunt and Tenace at least.

man if you honestly believe that then you have no idea!!

Joel Corey is a gun and would easily slot into our midfield, as JohnF says if Geelong offer us their first 2 picks i'd also jump at it, get something for a guy who has played only 1 good season in 7 is music to my ears.

But if Geelong offered pick 16 and J.Corey I'd happily agree to that.

about time some Richmond supporters stopped overating our players, its quite embarrassing and sickening.

 

[Weaver]

about time some Richmond supporters stopped overating our players, its quite embarrassing and sickening.

I agree. I also think there are two other sickening things.

1. The idea that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and guys like O'Keefe and Pat Bowden are any good.

2. Completely devaluing our players on the basis that we have become frustrated with them. Perecuting them because they are just good and don't walk on water, for only being the 4th-5th best guy in their position and not the best.

Ottens averaged 23.6 hitouts a game. Only Everitt and Sandilands got more.

Ottens averaged 12.8 disposals a game. Of the ruckmen only White, Everitt, Cox, Darcy and Fraser got more. Last season he averaged 15.3 touches putting him only behind Darcy and Goodes.

Ottens' 5.5 marks a game were better than any other ruckman including White. Only Kotschitke (5.6) was better in the ruckman / forward category. Last year it was the same story with only Darcy and Goodes doing better.

All this after a poor couple of years.

 

[Tigerrific]

I agree. I also think there are two other sickening things.

1. The idea that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and guys like O'Keefe and Pat Bowden are any good.

2. Completely devaluing our players on the basis that we have become frustrated with them. Perecuting them because they are just good and don't walk on water, for only being the 4th-5th best guy in their position and not the best.

Ottens averaged 23.6 hitouts a game. Only Everitt and Sandilands got more.

Ottens averaged 12.8 disposals a game. Of the ruckmen only White, Everitt, Cox, Darcy and Fraser got more. Last season he averaged 15.3 touches putting him only behind Darcy and Goodes.

Ottens' 5.5 marks a game were better than any other ruckman including White. Only Kotschitke (5.6) was better in the ruckman / forward category. Last year it was the same story with only Darcy and Goodes doing better.

All this after a poor couple of years.

So what would you want for Ottens then, Weaver? You probably know what he's worth better than any of us.
I would hope that we at least get a decent KPP plus a draft pick for him.

 

[Weaver]

So what would you want for Ottens then, Weaver? You probably know what he's worth better than any of us.
I would hope that we at least get a decent KPP plus a draft pick for him.

A 1st and a 2nd round pick plus an OK player (not a great or even good player). I'd guess that was the starting point.

Shaun Rehn after 2 knee recos and allready 30 years of age was work pick 12 and the Hawks got 2 years from him. There are plenty of so-so ruckmen like French and Brooks who got big trades. Even a complete dud like Peter Street was worth pick 20.

I think people should figure out what they think Ottens is worth, and then add a pick or two because ruckmen are the most expensive trade commodity going around.

Our problem will be that teams that are on the up don't want to lose players who are in their first 22, they want to add to that group. Geelong will say no to Kelly, Bartel, Johnson, Wojcinski, Mackie, Chapman, Corey, Enright etc. We will say no to guys like Slade, Playfair, Chambers and McCarthy. Spriggs might be the only tradeable guy down there. Hunt is a close of Chaffey so we won't want to double up there. Maybe Charlie Gardiner.

If Geelong is to be the team I would guess Geelong would have to give up pick 16, pick 32, Kent Kingsley at a MINIMUM. Kingsley is not great but they won't be able to use him if they give Ottens his spot, and we will straight out need a body for FF if Richo goes to CHF, too early to rely on Schulz.

Should be a fun fortnight anyway.

 

[BigCat1]

Weaver I respect your opinion. You make a good point in that ruckman do usually trade for more. You say our first two draft picks + an OK player. Then you go on to mention KK

Whilst he's no gun he is fairly handy. He had almost 100 shots at goal this year and two years ago he kicked over 50. He is still only 25 I think. An OK player is Spriggs. While everyone slams him he was in the best 25 at a club that almost made the GF. He actually played in one of the finals. If he was at another club this year he would have played the majority of the season in the 1's.

 

[itsintheblood]

We paid picks 6 and 22 for Brownie last year. With Ottens being a big man he should be worth more.
This is what I'd be looking for from a few of the possible contenders...

Geelong Tom Harley (or maybe Mooney) and their first round pick.


You have got to be joking. That is the most laughable thing I have ever read. Ottens, while I want him, has never been anything more than potential, and you all know it. Tom Harley is one of the premier CHB in the league. A straight swap Harley for Ottens is dumb enough, let alone adding a first round pick into the equation.

If thats what you want for him then you are a bigger joke than your club!!

I guess brad will be waving to you from the plane on his way to sydney then.

 

[jezza]

My concern with Spriggs was that he was guilty of doing things wrong that a lot of our players did wrong this year, missing targets when kicking, suddenly stopping when running with the ball and getting caught with it. We will have our work cut out getting that out of our existing players, we can't add more to the list who need to be strongly coached like that. A lot of the other Geelong players don't have those flaws at the moment so would be attractive to us in a trade.

 

[Weaver]

Whilst he's no gun he is fairly handy. He had almost 100 shots at goal this year and two years ago he kicked over 50. He is still only 25 I think. An OK player is Spriggs. While everyone slams him he was in the best 25 at a club that almost made the GF. He actually played in one of the finals. If he was at another club this year he would have played the majority of the season in the 1's.

The reason I mention Kingsley is that IF Ottens arives it is Kingsley that would lose his spot. The King / Ottens tandem would change between ruck and full forward. Mackie and Johnson would set that off well. Graham is a bit iffy at CHF but no one will take on his contract. The Cats will want to find a role for Mooney and minutes for Lonergan.

Most Geelong fans I know are frustrated with Kingsley and his inability to take hold of a match.

If Geelong want Ottens they have to take on his $450k-$500k pay packet. Moving Kingsley on makes sense in that context as well. Kingsley is probably in the $200k-$250k range so that helps balance your books. To some degree the player you give away will not be all about a football-decision, if you give away a $100k player you will be adding $400k to your TPP.

If Ottens comes in and Kingsley finds himself at the end of 2005 as a 27 year old who played 10 games you will get next to nothing (if anything) for him in a trade. So now is the time to move him on when his value is highest.

Spriggs is quick, has good stamina, but is a pea-heart with poor kicking. He will get a shot at another AFL club but Geelong want rid of him and everyone in football knows that. He needs a new start but clubs won't be lining up for him.

 

[JohnF]

Spriggs is an absolute hack and has nothing to offer us. He is a prettier version of Clinton King without the footy nous.

 

[Turbocat]

The reason I mention Kingsley is that IF Ottens arives it is Kingsley that would lose his spot. The King / Ottens tandem would change between ruck and full forward. Mackie and Johnson would set that off well. Graham is a bit iffy at CHF but no one will take on his contract. The Cats will want to find a role for Mooney and minutes for Lonergan.

Most Geelong fans I know are frustrated with Kingsley and his inability to take hold of a match.

If Geelong want Ottens they have to take on his $450k-$500k pay packet. Moving Kingsley on makes sense in that context as well. Kingsley is probably in the $200k-$250k range so that helps balance your books. To some degree the player you give away will not be all about a football-decision, if you give away a $100k player you will be adding $400k to your TPP.

If Ottens comes in and Kingsley finds himself at the end of 2005 as a 27 year old who played 10 games you will get next to nothing (if anything) for him in a trade. So now is the time to move him on when his value is highest.
Spriggs is quick, has good stamina, but is a pea-heart with poor kicking. He will get a shot at another AFL club but Geelong want rid of him and everyone in football knows that. He needs a new start but clubs won't be lining up for him.

Supurb Analysis. Well thought out future thinking and reasonable.
Another advantage of trading KK is that he is not a virgin in this,Geelong is his second club and it would sit better than trading a kid we have drafted.
My only querry would be your summary on Spriggs is a little tough.At a team like the Bombers or Brisbane, built around run and long to the forwards he would be a far better player.After looking a little old Brisbane could do with some run.Worth? No idea really, he has been deavalued not being in our winning side.What about bundled. Would Spriggs and Rooke get us Essendons R1 pick?

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

I agree. I also think there are two other sickening things.

1. The idea that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and guys like O'Keefe and Pat Bowden are any good.

2. Completely devaluing our players on the basis that we have become frustrated with them. Perecuting them because they are just good and don't walk on water, for only being the 4th-5th best guy in their position and not the best.

Ottens averaged 23.6 hitouts a game. Only Everitt and Sandilands got more.

Ottens averaged 12.8 disposals a game. Of the ruckmen only White, Everitt, Cox, Darcy and Fraser got more. Last season he averaged 15.3 touches putting him only behind Darcy and Goodes.

Ottens' 5.5 marks a game were better than any other ruckman including White. Only Kotschitke (5.6) was better in the ruckman / forward category. Last year it was the same story with only Darcy and Goodes doing better.

All this after a poor couple of years.

Hey Weaver,

all pretty impressive stats but when was the last time Brad won a game for the Richmond footy club or took the game by the scruff of the neck? I cant remember a time. Please let me know when this happened!

A guy paid the amount of money he was getting, one could easily EXPECT could turn a game of footy on its head.

That's why players like Brad deserve to be given a spray from frustrated supporters. Brad HAS been an overated player in his time at Richmond.

Good riddence!