What is Ian Chappell problem with Steve Waugh

[1980GFVideo]

Ian Chappell seems to have a problem with the way Waugh captained.

Is it personal?. I remember reading something about him not liking his style of captaincy but did they have a falling out?

Chappells Ashes Captains

Hes put Gatting instead of Steve Waugh. Sounds personal. Remember Waughs knock on one leg.

From Old Boys cool on the iceman
About then, Chappell's Channel Nine colleague Tony Greig said: "Waugh is not a liked character so much. Chappell wears his opinions on his sleeve and loves to have a beer and talk cricket with his mates. Steve is more an introvert. He's not one of those lean-up-against-the-bar merchants. When others are going out for a drink, he writes his books. Everyone in the media may have different views on certain issues. His [Chappell's] is that Steve Waugh is selfish and guys like that don't make good captains."

Leigh Mathews was known for not being one of the boys when playing at Hawthorn.

Notice Kim Hughes is not there. Those two didnt get along to the point Hughes wouldnt do interviews with him.

 

[The Passenger]

in any team sports there are a lot of big ego's at play.

steve waugh had one and definately rubbed some people up the wrong way, and had (possibly still has, i do'nt know) a reputation around sydney cricket circles as being a bit of a ****.

he was also pretty hard nosed which was what made him a fantastic leader.

i don't know if i would say steve waugh was introvert, but maybe as he became captain he made a bit of a gap between himself and the team which can sometimes be required. as the captain you've gotta make hard decisions and it becomes increasingly difficult to do that when you're best mates with everyone.

shane warne also held a grudge against steve waugh. he rarely gives him credit, or gives him nothing more than faint praise. when he released his top 50 players he played against or with he had steve waugh at 26. a more 6 spots in front of robin smith. this is almost certainly in relation to getting dropped around about 2000.

i would say somewehre along the way steve waugh has done something to upset ian chappell and the latter has not been in a hurry to get over it.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Chappel also put Ponting, who has lost 3/4 ashes series he's captained, ahead of Waugh, a guy who won both series comfortably and scored centuries on one leg. Chappell apparently doesnt like that Waugh put the Hook shot away in favour of making sure he stayed in and scored runs (of course Waugh averaged about 55 over the rest of his career after being brought back in the side, and was still pretty agressive). Chappelli just loves a grudge.

And as black thunder alludes to, you'd rather a captain who distanced himself from the side a bit than ol' Wicky Ponting captaining with his mates best interests in hand, who is too close to the team.

 

[sumavich]

Tugga was a great captain !

 

[BarneyBent]

Both Waugh and Chappelli are arseholes, obviously from very different schools of arseholery. It's little wonder they don't get along.

 

[dan warna]

personal issues aside, s.waugh was a great captain.

He didn't have the armoury that taylor had, and frankly while people wax lyrical about tubs, tubs had a fantastic team and was a lazy captain and a lazy batsman.

s.waugh put real bite into the australia team and we went from being a great team that won a lot, into the most feared side in the world. with a capacity to execute sides.

sure warne and waugh had issues but here were two gargantuan egos and probably amongst the best talents of the day, if not era.

It was pretty much agreed that waugh was carried for the first 3 or 4 seasons of his career, before he blossomed into one of the modern greats.

 

[courtjester]

personal issues aside, s.waugh was a great captain.

He didn't have the armoury that taylor had

Not sure what you mean by "armoury" Dan, but I would say Waugh captained a better side than Taylor did in their respective captaincies.

It's fairly simple I reckon, Chappelli was a union man, while Waugh was a part of the establishment.

 

[larrikin]

Seems to me Chapelli has problems with lots of people....

 

[rickyp]

Chappel also put Ponting, who has lost 3/4 ashes series he's captained, ahead of Waugh, a guy who won both series comfortably and scored centuries on one leg. Chappell apparently doesnt like that Waugh put the Hook shot away in favour of making sure he stayed in and scored runs (of course Waugh averaged about 55 over the rest of his career after being brought back in the side, and was still pretty agressive). Chappelli just loves a grudge.

And as black thunder alludes to, you'd rather a captain who distanced himself from the side a bit than ol' Wicky Ponting captaining with his mates best interests in hand, who is too close to the team.

It has a lot to do with the fact Ponting and Chappel are very similar captains, and Steve Waugh has an almost opposite technique

 

[CAS79]

Ponting did not have Wagh's cattle and if he was too close to the team it was Hilditch's job to change that not Ricky's.

I'm not saying better captain but Waugh had some of Australias best ever at their peak through his entire captaincy.

Pontings team was aging / not as talented, someone was always going to be on a hiding to nothing after the level of dominance Australia produced for so long. .

 

[dan warna]

Not sure what you mean by "armoury" Dan, but I would say Waugh captained a better side than Taylor did in their respective captaincies.

It's fairly simple I reckon, Chappelli was a union man, while Waugh was a part of the establishment.

Taylor had a wider selection of players to choose from and persisted with his mates.

The fielding was sloppier under taylor than under border and s.waugh.

And then there were the 4th innings collapses.

S.waugh inherited a good side and made it better. IMO taylor coasted on the talent he had available.

 

[Dipper]

Ian Chappell is so transparent with his 'opinions', they all have an aganda.

I had a look at that link for his best Ashes captains because I thought it was ridiculous that Gatting was on the list and he starts off saying that Gatting was a great capatain because he kept Botham in check who 'wanted 16 fielders.'

He's only put Gatting in there to have a pop at Botham.

Gatting captained England in over 20 Tests and only won 2 of them, those 2 in the 86/86 Ashes series.

He oversaw England's first home series defeats to New Zealand and Pakistan.

He was a lesser England captain than Vaughan, Hussain, Atherton, Gooch and probably Strauss.

To give him his due he was probably better than Gower, although Gower did win a series in India.

To put him ahead of Waugh is such a case of having an agenda that it's unbelievable that he actually gets paid to provide an opinion.

Anyone would have won a lot of series with that Australian side and Taylor had a good record but Waugh did the only thing that could actually taken it forward and that was to look at carrying out an utterly remorseless destruction of the opposition.

Test cricket was been played for decades with run rates of around the 3 runs an over mark or less and his strategy for quick run scoring has now become the norm with over 300 runs scored in a day being common rather than indicative of a particularly attacking batting display.We should all thank him for that if nothign else.

 

[The Passenger]

Taylor had a wider selection of players to choose from and persisted with his mates.

The fielding was sloppier under taylor than under border and s.waugh.

And then there were the 4th innings collapses.

S.waugh inherited a good side and made it better. IMO taylor coasted on the talent he had available.

interesting last paragraph. something i've never really thought about or looked into in loads of depth. just thinking about it i can definately see where your argument comes from.

Mark Taylor finished in 98/99.... Warne was well established as was McGrath.... He obviously missed on Hayden and Gilchrist... and you could argue Gillespie was still settling in at international level.

Seems to me Chapelli has problems with lots of people....

very true. and often overlooked. in regards to both Ian and Greg.....

 

[The_Reaper]

interesting last paragraph. something i've never really thought about or looked into in loads of depth. just thinking about it i can definately see where your argument comes from.

Mark Taylor finished in 98/99.... Warne was well established as was McGrath.... He obviously missed on Hayden and Gilchrist... and you could argue Gillespie was still settling in at international level.



very true. and often overlooked. in regards to both Ian and Greg.....

I wouldn't say that Taylor missed out on Hayden.
Hayden in the 90s wasn't good enough to be in the team.

 

[The Passenger]

yeah but that's not entirely taylor's fault.... his foot work was pretty orindary in his early days (wasn't that great afterwards either) and he wasn't making the step up... i suppose you could argue taylor, being his opening partner and captain in the mid 90's for a stretch would've been the closest in the team to hayden and could have done more to help him but no one really knows the in's and out's...

either way i'd still take steve waugh is the best captain of the two but i'm probbaly biases as he was my fave player as a kid.

 

[dan warna]

I don't think hayden was given a sufficient opportunity to prove himself, and to a less degree, neither was the other 'matthew'.

Langer wasn't perceived as an opener but a no.3, 4 or 5 batsman early in his career.

S.Waugh certainly had his favourites, Lee and M.Waugh who probably weren't the best in the nation. However in my opinion, S.Waugh brought to the team brutality in captaincy.

Australia went from a powerful side to one of the great teams of all time and comparable with the great windian side of the 70s/80s and even the invincible.

He worked on eliminating the psychological weakness, and the poor fielding that crept in under taylor.

It got to the point where idiots were saying Australia was too strong, too proffessional, too brutal.

For me, I loved it. I loved watching Australia demoralise and crush teams. I expect we'll see a strong Australian side emerge again, however getting 4 or 5 batsmen averaging 50, a wicket keeper who can catch everything and average 50, 2 pacemen who can average between 21 and 25 per wicket and one of the greatest leg spinners in the history of the game? I doubt well see that again.

I think you can add 5 runs per average to the batsmen due to the running between wickets, everyone in S.Waughs team was superbly fit, their running between wickets was at times insulting to the fielding sides. I loved it

 

[mattymac]

good points dan

to whoever said it was up to hilditch to stop ricky being too matey as captain, i disagree. self discipline is the captain's responsibility. he alone brings the captaincy style that shapes the team.

the captain has to distance himself from his players at the top level. there has to be an air of respect and maybe even a little fear and the captain has to cultivate that himself and be removed enough from his players that he's ready to remove them when they're not up to it and not let friendship and arse kissing blur his vision.

under ponting everyone is too matey. especially the new 'team ricky' members of post 2007 who seem to worship him. they worship him and kiss his arse but they don't fear him so they have a tendency to sulk, knowing their spots are safe, rather than give everything all the time out of fear of their captain

ricky was never captain material and his spots for mates policy has only made his captaincy more forgettable

 

[Gavin Excell]

In his autobiography Chapelli, Ian devotes a few pages to his view on S Waugh.

Essentially he beleived S Waugh was a selfish captain more concerned with the protection of his average than the team. He denotes times when Waugh elected not to bat when team was chasing a small total and promoting "nightwatchmen" when there was little to gain by his batting (to his average ) and a lot to lose. He also quotes the famous Sydney test where Waugh was more focused on acheiving his century when he could have gone out hard and given Australia the chance to win the game.

I find the criticism a little unjust given cricket is all about individuals and far removed from the concept of the "team" than any other sport.

 

[dan warna]

There are many criticism of s.waugh, i believe also he was selfish.

I also believe S.waugh would walk over broken glass to ensure a defeat of an opponent. He wouldn't give them room to breath.

Under taylor the batting was mentally weak and the bowlers were held to account, especially amongst the 'favourites'. Martyn, langer and Hayden were often held to account while taylors own batting, slater, and M.waugh were above reproach.

Under s.waugh hayden, langer and martyn achieved far more, they were fitter and more determined than taylors crew.

S.waugh was a selfish, and arrogant at the end, and I think he too lapsed into deriding new comers to 'his' team, but then at the end he'd earned the right.

Punter is probably the brightest of talents and he inherited an aging but brilliant side.

He does lack the killer instinct and I think in the absence of gilchrist and Warne, his most able lieutenants his captaincy has failed, also he lacked the depth of bowling available to taylor or the depth of batting available to Waugh.

Probably only Khawaja of the new comers shows anything like the discipline required to be a winner. Hughes and smith bat like tail enders going the slog and our entire bowling attack (siddle, bollinger, MJ and hilfenhaus) bowl like millionaires lacking anything like the discpline or ability shown by even harris.

 

[The_Reaper]

There are many criticism of s.waugh, i believe also he was selfish.

I also believe S.waugh would walk over broken glass to ensure a defeat of an opponent. He wouldn't give them room to breath.

Under taylor the batting was mentally weak and the bowlers were held to account, especially amongst the 'favourites'. Martyn, langer and Hayden were often held to account while taylors own batting, slater, and M.waugh were above reproach.

Under s.waugh hayden, langer and martyn achieved far more, they were fitter and more determined than taylors crew.

S.waugh was a selfish, and arrogant at the end, and I think he too lapsed into deriding new comers to 'his' team, but then at the end he'd earned the right.

Punter is probably the brightest of talents and he inherited an aging but brilliant side.

He does lack the killer instinct and I think in the absence of gilchrist and Warne, his most able lieutenants his captaincy has failed, also he lacked the depth of bowling available to taylor or the depth of batting available to Waugh.

Probably only Khawaja of the new comers shows anything like the discipline required to be a winner. Hughes and smith bat like tail enders going the slog and our entire bowling attack (siddle, bollinger, MJ and hilfenhaus) bowl like millionaires lacking anything like the discpline or ability shown by even harris.

I think it has to do a lot with the states.
Wonder kids are been giving free rides straight from U/17 and U/19 cricket into the shield squads and not having to earn their stripes.
Starc got into to the NSW squad after taking 30 grade cricket wickets in his career, Copeland who was entirely self made had to wait for 170.

 

[The Passenger]

I think you can add 5 runs per average to the batsmen due to the running between wickets, everyone in S.Waughs team was superbly fit, their running between wickets was at times insulting to the fielding sides. I loved it

excellent point. they were light years in front of the pack from about 2000 to 2005 with their running between wickets.

and in filtered right down the levels. when i left school and got into senior cricket in 02/03 we did lots of work on running between wickets and this sort of micro management...

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Chappelli's biggest issue that when the captaincy was up for grabs he emphatically supported Shane Warne for the role. Was a huge wrap for him as a leader and a tactician and said that Warne was what the Australian team needed.

When they went for Waugh instead and he became the winningest captain in Australia's history, Chappelli has had to work hard to denigrate Waugh's achievements to protect his own reputation as a judge.

 

[Bert1]

What is Chappelli's problem talking crap altogether. Pumping up Clarke's tyres to a ridiculous extent all innings. Sure he batted ok, but they are playing Kenya.... Just look at their bowling averages. Even when Clarke just got out he's saying"Oh he must be saving the century for a match against a big team in a big match" Yeah, because that's Clarke's specialty.

 

[Bomber Bears]

I think it has to do a lot with the states.
Wonder kids are been giving free rides straight from U/17 and U/19 cricket into the shield squads and not having to earn their stripes.
Starc got into to the NSW squad after taking 30 grade cricket wickets in his career, Copeland who was entirely self made had to wait for 170.

This isnt just a cricket thing however, this is an Australian sporting issue thats filtered in the last few years. Look at rugby league, Under 20's has replaced reserve grade as the primary 'second' competition (at, I believe, a little bit of detriment). Soccer, at A-league, NSW premier level and local level is replacing reserve grades with under 20/21's comp (usually with 2 or 3 over age players). AFL has long had the primary pathway is 18's-->drafted, with only a few mature age players being selected every year.

 

[AM]

I'd have left the 'with Steve Waugh' part off the thread title.