What is wrong

[Books]

Freo fans, I am a Hawthorn supporter and I am not trying to make trouble. I have taken notice of the Dockers ever since Croad was traded to you in 2001 and I notice some serious problems. What is wrong with your player development?
Why was Croad so promising, then he went over and deteriorated, then came back and made All-Oz?
Why are Peter Bell, Josh Carr, Farmer, Headland and Black not as good as they were at other clubs?
Why have McPhee, Clement and Croad become All-Australians at other clubs after struggling at the Dockers?
Why haven't Longmuir, Sandilands, Polak and Hasleby become the players they look like they could be?
Is it Connolly's fault? Is it someone or something else at the club? I'd like to see you guys do OK and I'd love your opinions. I am sure these are questions you have asked yourselves at times. So fire away - what is wrong at Freo?

 

[kidstyler]

Freo fans, I am a Hawthorn supporter and I am not trying to make trouble. I have taken notice of the Dockers ever since Croad was traded to you in 2001 and I notice some serious problems. What is wrong with your player development?
Why was Croad so promising, then he went over and deteriorated, then came back and made All-Oz?
Why are Peter Bell, Josh Carr, Farmer, Headland and Black not as good as they were at other clubs?
Why have McPhee, Clement and Croad become All-Australians at other clubs after struggling at the Dockers?
Why haven't Longmuir, Sandilands, Polak and Hasleby become the players they look like they could be?
Is it Connolly's fault? Is it someone or something else at the club? I'd like to see you guys do OK and I'd love your opinions. I am sure these are questions you have asked yourselves at times. So fire away - what is wrong at Freo?

ive been asking myself those questions for years now...

simply put: i dont care anymore ...

 

[Ysaye]

Okay I'll have a go at your questions:

(1) Croad - IMO he was lucky with the AA - simply the outstanding CHB's weren't there, with Leppisch and Cornes injured and/or getting older and McPharlin changing to into FF. And now he is playing forward again for you like he did for us - I don't think he has improved much from his stint when he was forward for us. I doubt many docker fans miss him.

(2) Bell - had very good seasons in 2001/2002 for us equal to those he played for North but age and the changing game have caught up with him. When Farmer came to us CC tried playing him first as a midfielder, allowing Medhurst to cement a place in the forward line and take up the space that Farmer enjoyed at Melbourne. Headland suffered from being overrated - I remember people critising him at Brisbane for not being accountable and when he came to our team which had a far inferior midfield he struggled because he didn't get fed like he did at Brisbane. As for Black, his career stagnated when he went to St Kilda and didn't restart when he came back to us - like Fiora he remains a good long left boot with not much else; he had a reasonable season last year with us . Josh Carr I can't defend - I am still convinced he could come good at some stage.

(3) Croad trade talked about. McPhee had a terrible run of injuries whilst here but played well for us when he could get on the field. Clement is good but Parker is underrated outside of the west and is a similar player who has had to play on key forwards instead of being the third defender like Clement is.

(4) Longmuir is too short compared to modern ruckman but not fast enough to be a FF; he is sort of in the same boat as Ottens and Thompson where he plays Forward/Ruck. Polak wants to be a forward rather than a CHB as discussed elsewhere but can't kick and can suffer from a lack of confidence. Hasleby is our best midfielder but has a number of serious and continuous injuries which hinder him and has little help from others in the middle. Sandilands is developing well but doesn't have smart crumbers to take advantage.

(5) Lots of factors to blame but personally we could have strategically recruited better in terms of midfielders. We have recruited good players, but we need to keep an eye on the changing style of the AFL where good decision making, speed and skills are becoming increasingly more important, especially in the centre of the ground.

For example, we were crying out for talented rovers and midfielders that can break lines before the last draft. With our top pick we recruited Drum, who by all accounts looks really good but he is a basically an undersized KP player. We also took a HBF and a ruck. The draft before that we didn't really get anyone, and the draft before that we drafted three key position players, a winger and a utility. Schammer was taken before that, but for all his good points he is undersized AND doesn't has too many skill errors and decision errors. The recruitment of Murphy, Campbell, Copping, even Mundy (He was recruited as a CHB) was questionable when we still lacked skilled rovers and we were still using guys like Cook and McManus. In retrospect CC was on the right lines to play Pavlich in the centre - he added that skill level and thinking that was needed. Now that he is playing his proper position of CHF we are struggling there.

IMO We need to get a super-talented midfielder or two, the sort that don't get traded and that only get taken as a Top 15 pick. A player with good decision making and football skills and at least one of speed or height.

The recruiters might drool over the KP talent in this years draft but we need to go after either Selwood or Jetta or close equivalent (See Mojo31's draft profiles). Till we do that, we are going to be up and down as players have their skills on and off and as we get lucky around the ground.

 

[kanabar]

Freo fans, I am a Hawthorn supporter and I am not trying to make trouble. I have taken notice of the Dockers ever since Croad was traded to you in 2001 and I notice some serious problems. What is wrong with your player development?
Why was Croad so promising, then he went over and deteriorated, then came back and made All-Oz?
Why are Peter Bell, Josh Carr, Farmer, Headland and Black not as good as they were at other clubs?
Why have McPhee, Clement and Croad become All-Australians at other clubs after struggling at the Dockers?
Why haven't Longmuir, Sandilands, Polak and Hasleby become the players they look like they could be?
Is it Connolly's fault? Is it someone or something else at the club? I'd like to see you guys do OK and I'd love your opinions. I am sure these are questions you have asked yourselves at times. So fire away - what is wrong at Freo?

well thats the million dollar question to be honest...i just think its the culture atr the club....we need a tough hard coach like sheedy...malthouse or leigh matthews..

 

[Books]

Okay I'll have a go at your questions:

(1) Croad - IMO he was lucky with the AA - simply the outstanding CHB's weren't there, with Leppisch and Cornes injured and/or getting older and McPharlin changing to into FF. And now he is playing forward again for you like he did for us - I don't think he has improved much from his stint when he was forward for us. I doubt many docker fans miss him.

(2) Bell - had very good seasons in 2001/2002 for us equal to those he played for North but age and the changing game have caught up with him. When Farmer came to us CC tried playing him first as a midfielder, allowing Medhurst to cement a place in the forward line and take up the space that Farmer enjoyed at Melbourne. Headland suffered from being overrated - I remember people critising him at Brisbane for not being accountable and when he came to our team which had a far inferior midfield he struggled because he didn't get fed like he did at Brisbane. As for Black, his career stagnated when he went to St Kilda and didn't restart when he came back to us - like Fiora he remains a good long left boot with not much else; he had a reasonable season last year with us . Josh Carr I can't defend - I am still convinced he could come good at some stage.

(3) Croad trade talked about. McPhee had a terrible run of injuries whilst here but played well for us when he could get on the field. Clement is good but Parker is underrated outside of the west and is a similar player who has had to play on key forwards instead of being the third defender like Clement is.

(4) Longmuir is too short compared to modern ruckman but not fast enough to be a FF; he is sort of in the same boat as Ottens and Thompson where he plays Forward/Ruck. Polak wants to be a forward rather than a CHB as discussed elsewhere but can't kick and can suffer from a lack of confidence. Hasleby is our best midfielder but has a number of serious and continuous injuries which hinder him and has little help from others in the middle. Sandilands is developing well but doesn't have smart crumbers to take advantage.

(5) Lots of factors to blame but personally we could have strategically recruited better in terms of midfielders. We have recruited good players, but we need to keep an eye on the changing style of the AFL where good decision making, speed and skills are becoming increasingly more important, especially in the centre of the ground.

For example, we were crying out for talented rovers and midfielders that can break lines before the last draft. With our top pick we recruited Drum, who by all accounts looks really good but he is a basically an undersized KP player. We also took a HBF and a ruck. The draft before that we didn't really get anyone, and the draft before that we drafted three key position players, a winger and a utility. Schammer was taken before that, but for all his good points he is undersized AND doesn't has too many skill errors and decision errors. The recruitment of Murphy, Campbell, Copping, even Mundy (He was recruited as a CHB) was questionable when we still lacked skilled rovers and we were still using guys like Cook and McManus. In retrospect CC was on the right lines to play Pavlich in the centre - he added that skill level and thinking that was needed. Now that he is playing his proper position of CHF we are struggling there.

IMO We need to get a super-talented midfielder or two, the sort that don't get traded and that only get taken as a Top 15 pick. A player with good decision making and football skills and at least one of speed or height.

The recruiters might drool over the KP talent in this years draft but we need to go after either Selwood or Jetta or close equivalent (See Mojo31's draft profiles). Till we do that, we are going to be up and down as players have their skills on and off and as we get lucky around the ground.

Thanks Ysaye for that intelligent and thoughtful response. Do you think you can win a flag with this list or do you have a way to go? Can Connolly get the best out of these players?

 

[Rob]

I'll have a go too.

Sh it coach.

 

[Vintage]

Ditto

 

[FreoFury]

Fix the mid field and the rest will follow. Our premier mid fielders all have the same weaknesses, its why we regularly come second in the clearances stakes.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

Great post ysaye. Agree with you on most everything. Not that sad that we don't have Croad now but would love some of draft picks we have given up in our time to pick up some first class midfielders.

Des has been a dissapointment, my guess is that he came back to a comfort zone and hasn't got the aggressive ambition to get the most out of himself. I think if he were dropped for a few weeks or come close to being delisted traded he would come back a different player.

I have thought Heath Black has been pretty good in his play and endeavour yet don't see why he is not used around the clearences as a rover. He certainly has the aggression so maybe its the in close skills, who knows?

Heath Black, Schammer and Headland all look like the type of midfielders we so desperately need. They should be the young bulls of our midfield yet none have taken the bit by the teeth so far.

While im dreaming The Carrs should add the grunt but with the class of the scotts. Bell should have a specialist role taking in mind his great decision making yet limited physical capabilities. And Hase plays the ratten role.

My only criticism of CC is that he wants players to play in all sorts of different positions. Flexibility, Match ups and all that hooha. We have the pedigree of players to play on our terms. Stop taking from Peter to pay paul stop gap soluions.

Play Pav at CHF; No Brainer

Tie the Wiz to the goal posts

McPharlin would be an AA CHB

Polly FF, thats right. According to the rumours hes so desperate the play in the forward half he was blackmailing the coach.

JLo is a tough one. Without Sandi I would say he should be a ruckman first and a tall forward driftingly. With Sandi I say he should bulk up and be a tall forward first and ruckman second.

Medhurst should always play and play as a HFF. Hell he's the only real one wev'e got to play HFF if you call Hase, Macca and Headland Midfielders.

Schammer, DJ and Black should be midfielders.

Any others? Maybe Murphy should be the great white FF hope. he was the last 2 years anyway wasn't he.

 

[mathew20]

We have the players we just need a coach that has been fairly obvious for a quite a while.The players realise it and so do 98% of the supporters and the sooner we get the axe out the sooner we can put all this behind us and move forward.

 

[Ysaye]

Thanks Ysaye for that intelligent and thoughtful response. Do you think you can win a flag with this list or do you have a way to go? Can Connolly get the best out of these players?

(1) IMO Can't win a premiership with this list. However the list has a good quality foundation group; namely: Pavlich, Hasleby, Sandilands and also McPharlin and Mundy.

I think the list needs to be changed with some amount of brutality - it is no use having good players if they don't form a working team. There are very good players on this list who would succeed at other clubs but are no good here because they don't fit the team. CC and the coaching panel need to use/trade this abundance of talent and get the "right" players that will fit into the team and help this club - At the moment CC still likes re-inventing players into other positions.

(2) CC can get the best out of some but not all of these players.

I don't think he can get the best out of Polak, Longmuir and maybe some others. On the other hand Sandilands, Mundy, and lesser players Thornton, Hayden, Grover in particular have flourished where they might not have under another coach.

I still think that CC is the best coach available to our club.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

I think one of the fundamental things that is wrong is that CC doesn't appear to command respect and neither does the football club in general. Usually football people talk about respect by opposition or fans and I hate that. What I want is Fremantle players to have respect for the club and the team.
The thought that they will not let the team down without giving there all.

It was there for a while after the demo derby but most of the list has turned over and the new breed see FFC as a lifestyle choice, not a club to bleed for.

 

[Ripper]

Hate to say it but a lot of bad supporters.

After coming down for the game Saturday night and hearing the vitriol towards the players by their own "fans", it is no wonder we perform better away when there is a less hostile crowd.

 

[Vintage]

Hate to say it but a lot of bad supporters.

After coming down for the game Saturday night and hearing the vitriol towards the players by their own "fans", it is no wonder we perform better away when there is a less hostile crowd.

Less hostile crowd? With all respect Ripper, what a load of bollocks. The Freo crowd is so starved of hightlights we'll cheer at the slightest inkling of good play. You reckon the players get booed more at Subi than at away games? Get off the grass.

 

[Kapow!!!]

ive been asking myself those questions for years now...

simply put: i dont care anymore ...

Sadly I concur.

 

[Rob]

Hate to say it but a lot of bad supporters.

After coming down for the game Saturday night and hearing the vitriol towards the players by their own "fans", it is no wonder we perform better away when there is a less hostile crowd.

Now that's just crap. The fans will get behind the players if they can see the players are doing their bit. Look at the crowd reaction when McPharlin came off the ground after the collision with Perrie. THAT is what we want to see, gutsy hard footy, not the outside running, pussyfoot afraid to get in there and get the ball footy we're so used to seeing.

 

[Ripper]

Less hostile crowd? With all respect Ripper, what a load of bollocks. The Freo crowd is so starved of hightlights we'll cheer at the slightest inkling of good play. You reckon the players get booed more at Subi than at away games? Get off the grass.

Sorry , it has degenerated over the years. There was more support when we had 20K crowds than 35k crowds.

At least when they play away they "expect" a hostile crowd.

It must be hard to play for "us" when they get mostly uninformed abuse.

Sad but true.

 

[Ripper]

Now that's just crap. The fans will get behind the players if they can see the players are doing their bit. Look at the crowd reaction when McPharlin came off the ground after the collision with Perrie. THAT is what we want to see, gutsy hard footy, not the outside running, pussyfoot afraid to get in there and get the ball footy we're so used to seeing.

True that, but in the meantime there are lots of cheap shots.

Too many people listen to George (who I had the privilege of listening to while I was in the big smoke).

Margins flattered us, yah de yah de yah.
I have news for you George , the margins are in the scorebook.

He sounded like me trolling Eagles supporters.

I don't know what more DJ has to do. I have replayed the game twice , watch every disposal he had, and he had two clangers. He led the way with 13 effective kicks on Saturday night but two errors has him being dropped. If anything he is trying too hard for the ungrateful pricks.

 

[rgauci]

True that, but in the meantime there are lots of cheap shots.

Too many people listen to George (who I had the privilege of listening to while I was in the big smoke).

Margins flattered us, yah de yah de yah.
I have news for you George , the margins are in the scorebook.

He sounded like me trolling Eagles supporters.

I don't know what more DJ has to do. I have replayed the game twice , watch every disposal he had, and he had two clangers. He led the way with 13 effective kicks on Saturday night but two errors has him being dropped. If anything he is trying too hard for the ungrateful pricks.

Interesting on Des, only 2 clangers. It seemed like much more. I must admit i thought he'd turned a corner this year in the previous rounds. Its just those clangers stand out.

I remember one on the wing, commentators: 'Fremantle have players in space should capitalize on the Adelaide turnover, DES! he's kicked it straight at the only Adelaide player'

And then the ump's kept calling him for running off his line after he took a mark. Did you count those, in my books they were clangers because he should of been lining up from 50 out to have a ping.

 

[Ripper]

Interesting on Des, only 2 clangers. It seemed like much more. I must admit i thought he'd turned a corner this year in the previous rounds. Its just those clangers stand out.

I remember one on the wing, commentators: 'Fremantle have players in space should capitalize on the Adelaide turnover, DES! he's kicked it straight at the only Adelaide player'

And then the ump's kept calling him for running off his line after he took a mark. Did you count those, in my books they were clangers because he should of been lining up from 50 out to have a ping.

I was at the game and like everyone else cringed when he got caught on the wing (with good reason ).

Then I went through the game twice and saw the great work he actually did.

He put it to a contested situation a few times to slight advantage in the hot spot and you would expect most gun forwards like ours to mark it or it to be crumbed.

He may have missed a few better options but his disposal to th eoptions he chose was at least 50/50.

If anything he is trying too hard.

Any one who doubt this , go and watch the tape.

 

[Kapow!!!]

If there's one thing I have to say about Des is that his clangers count might be low but they come at the worst possible times...he's our No.1 momentum killer.

 

[Kapow!!!]

I was at the game and like everyone else cringed when he got caught on the wing (with good reason ).

Then I went through the game twice and saw the great work he actually did.

He put it to a contested situation a few times to slight advantage in the hot spot and you would expect most gun forwards like ours to mark it or it to be crumbed.

He may have missed a few better options but his disposal to th eoptions he chose was at least 50/50.

If anything he is trying too hard.

Any one who doubt this , go and watch the tape.

Des does the hard yards but gets caught up in the momentum and thus kills off any form of momentum or good work we have going. He's done this in just about every 'good' game Dessy has played for us.

 

[Ripper]

If there's one thing I have to say about Des is that his clangers count might be low but they come at the worst possible times...he's our No.1 momentum killer.

Only because he is trying too hard Kapow.

Tape the game go though it contest by contest add them up and then hang crap on him. He is busing his ass for us to do well , overdoes it at times but I would rather that than sitting back and not making clangers trying to break the game open.

 

[ThePope]

What is wrong with your player development?

Nothing. Mundy, Johnson, Crowley, Peake, Schammer, Pav, Grover, Thornton all doing OK.

Why was Croad so promising, then he went over and deteriorated, then came back and made All-Oz?

He led our goal kicking in his first year, 2nd year was rise of the "no-name defence" and Medhurst up forward... Croad didn't fit and went home. lets move on.

Why are Peter Bell, Josh Carr, Farmer, Headland and Black not as good as they were at other clubs?

Bell has won 3 B&Fs, 2 runners up and made all-australian. He is as good.
Carr, only been here 1 year... 2005 Brownlow votes 8, career votes 17 (best in a year before he was with us was 4 - in 2002 and 2004 - Port finished on top in those years).
Farmer - main goto man at Demons, secondary guy here. Only 1 great year at Melb, 2000 when they made the GF.
Headland - 5th midfielder at Brissy, only half a good year (didn't make their 2001 premiership side) at Brissy, same year as their premiership (notice a trend yet?)
Black... again I reckon he's done just as well with us as with the Saints.

Why have McPhee, Clement and Croad become All-Australians at other clubs after struggling at the Dockers?

McPhee we traded with OP, Clement didn't get on with Drum, Croad you know.

Why haven't Longmuir, Sandilands, Polak and Hasleby become the players they look like they could be?

JLo... was a ruckman, then a forward, now a ruckman again. And does it pretty well.
Sandi... we all thought he was going to dominate this year... and he still might, but still only 23 and everyone knows ruckmen take longer to develop.
Polak... great mark, had the kicking yips, lets see if he can bounce back from a disappointing start.
Hasleby... I've avoided blaming injuries so far... but can't think of any other reason for Hase.

I think the problem is
1) we are losing. Teams and players look a lot worse when you end up short. Every turnover is questioned... anyone complaining about those Melb players who kicked out of bounds in the dying minutes yesterday... doubt it.
2) George, Walls, Hardie etc all want to sink the slipper whenever they can... regardless of the accuracy.
3) we are losing. Until we win at least a final and probably not until we win a flag we will cop it.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Only because he is trying too hard Kapow.

Tape the game go though it contest by contest add them up and then hang crap on him. He is busing his ass for us to do well , overdoes it at times but I would rather that than sitting back and not making clangers trying to break the game open.

Agreed, can't argue with his effort point is he continually does it. Needs to tone out the crowd when he's on a blistering run