What now?

[Chief Ten Beers]

What now? Season over.

People were saying this and the Saints game were big ones.

But personally, if we go down to Eagles then Port. Yes, it's over for sure.

 

[Magpiemack]

Is there any light at the end of this very dark tunnel?

Okay, we've had massive injuries and I knew we'd be up against it, but whenever I have to sit through a flogging I try and look for signs of promise from our younger players.

The past two weeks haven't offered up much have they? Only Sidebottom, and maybe Wellingham. Beams should be okay too (based on earlier performances) if he ends up staying a Pie long term. But is there a superstar in making from any of them, or any of our other younger blokes? I don't think so.

Perhaps we are starting to pay the price for finishing relatively high up on the ladder these past few years....or is it bad drafting or both?

I think I need to see my therapist I'm feeling depressed again.

 

[Barwick17]

I did. Chatted with a few around us, and the general consensus was that our game plan, list depth, etc are just not up to scratch. After much negativity w then decided it was not worth watching anymore and headed on home.

I thought a forum was for discussing things? Sorry if I'm mistake.

It is - just like buying a membership/general admission ticket is for watching footy instead of going home to type

 

[Visions]

Re: What's your measure of successful 2009 now

We are probably on track for 12 to 14 wins at best.

That would mean winning between 9 and 11 out of 14. I totally doubt it. Minor miracle needed.

I'd like to see that. What are you looking forward to?

My 7 week trip to Europe in July/August.

 

[PieLebo87]

Re: What's your measure of successful 2009 now

For me.... how soon MM is shown the door.

 

[Blade of Chronic]

Re: What's your measure of successful 2009 now

If we keep playing the way we played tonight then we will struggle even against the likes of Melbourne. A successful 2009? Make the top 8 (which I am doubting as of now), Rocca kicking 5 goals in his last game and our young players stepping up to the next level. Would be great to have Bucks replace MM (anytime soon please) and we need more people to step up to become a leader. We don't have ANY leadership out there except for Maxwell who looks like he's the only one actually ****ing trying out there.

 

[FuManchu]

Re: What's your measure of successful 2009 now

The number one draft pick and best player coming out of contract would be our best success we could hope for this year. You just never know who might want to come over to Collingwood.

Oh,and sack MM tomorrow, give Bucks 14 weeks as coach to give him that apprenticeship some reckon he needs, but which I doubt he does.

 

[greening22]

People were saying this and the Saints game were big ones.

But personally, if we go down to Eagles then Port. Yes, it's over for sure.

New Coach; new captain; new game plan; new football operations manager; and a massive clean-out of dead wood. And only recruit players who can actually That would be a start

 

[Blade of Chronic]

Forget top 8. Forget finals. Think about 2010.

No tanking but play some kids and develop them for the next 1-2 years.

Lets play:

Sidebottom
Macaffer
Barham
Stanley
McCarthy
Dawes
Beams
Reid
Cook
Wellingham
Cox

Work on a new gameplan.
We need to get more leadership on the ground, no idea how that is going to happen though.
Find Thomas a position where he feels most comfortable in.
Play Cloke in the 2's until he finds his form.
Tell MM and his Leigh Brown to **** off.

 

[Blade of Chronic]

double post.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The fact is; we're still only a game out of 6th. There's no way that the club is going to concede a season this early. If we lose to WCE, then we'll be 3-6 and things will be looking grim. A loss to the Power at the MCG would probably then spell the end, and time to start playing the likes of Dawes/Reid/Wood/Sidebottom/Wellingham etc. virtually regardless of form.

 

[Blade of Chronic]

The fact is; we're still only a game out of 6th. There's no way that the club is going to concede a season this early. If we lose to WCE, then we'll be 3-6 and things will be looking grim. A loss to the Power at the MCG would probably then spell the end, and time to start playing the likes of Dawes/Reid/Wood/Sidebottom/Wellingham etc. virtually regardless of form.

It depends if we can start playing some consistent footy. It doesn't help if we play average footy and win then play worse than melbourne the next. I wouldn't want us to play like that and scrape into the top 8 and play finals footy than developing our kids and work on winning a premiership in 2010/11.

I reckon we need to sack MM straight away. I have a niggling suspicion he really does not give a shit about developing kids as he knows this is his last year if he doesn't reach GF. So if we are to start preparing for the upcoming years, MM has to be the first one to go.

 

[FuManchu]

The fact is; we're still only a game out of 6th. There's no way that the club is going to concede a season this early. If we lose to WCE, then we'll be 3-6 and things will be looking grim. A loss to the Power at the MCG would probably then spell the end, and time to start playing the likes of Dawes/Reid/Wood/Sidebottom/Wellingham etc. virtually regardless of form.

The coach is coaching like the season is conceded, comments like yesterday where he thought we were still in it, in the last qtr is the sign of a man who has other things than wins on his mind.

The best outcome this year is to get some good young blood, to blood the youngsters we already have, tell O'Bree and Rocca, thanx but catch ya later and get a new coach in mid season and see if he can see any value in the players we have, other than the wide defensive crap we play. This is the perfect opportunity to see if the likes of Reid and dawes and co can play the game, other than try and stick to the stifling game plan they have to.

I really dont see the point of trying to make finals if all we are going to do is make up the numbers. Its is that obvious we are so far from being ready for a real crack at the flag. We need to make use of this year by making hard decisons NOW. Otherwise, if we start next year with a new coach we will be 14 games later in finding out things that would have been useful for us to know by the start of next season.

And BTW, MM has made Eddie look foolish by the way we are playing this year. Eddies 'real crack' at the flag statement will force him to act decisively. He is starting to look a little foolish poor old Eddie is. Backing players that lie to him, massive write offs on the pubs, blustering every time someone writes what are becoming more and more accurate articles criticising the club and now the 'real crack' at the flag statement. I dont think Eddie likes to me made look foolish and maybe this will prompt him to act sooner rather than later. I hope it does!

 

[PieLebo87]

I agree FM, and don't get me wrong, I want more than anyone, a new coach asap, and that means even as early as tomorrow, 19th of May 2009, but do you seriously believe that if we got a new coach mid-season, he can just have a new game plan ready like that? And the Collingwood players will be able to enforce a game plan which they haven't even spent pre-season practicing? Its not that simple, but I wish it was.

 

[HFF]

It is not productive to employ a new coach mid-season.

Too much focus and too much unwanted pressure will be on everyone at the club.

If we are going to employ a new coach it is best to do at season's end.

This will enable us to draft/trade accordingly, have an entire pre-season to develop a new game plan under the new coach and bring in some fresh enthusiasm, leadership and dare to the club.

Nathan Buckley is our man.

Hook, line and sinker.

 

[FuManchu]

I agree FM, and don't get me wrong, I want more than anyone, a new coach asap, and that means even as early as tomorrow, 19th of May 2009, but do you seriously believe that if we got a new coach mid-season, he can just have a new game plan ready like that? And the Collingwood players will be able to enforce a game plan which they haven't even spent pre-season practicing? Its not that simple, but I wish it was.

I believe a new coach can give players who need to be assesed roles to play and see if their is any promise. As it stands, if he has to do it at the onset of a new season, its a season wasted finding out what we could have found out in a season where little was on the line.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I reckon we need to sack MM straight away. I have a niggling suspicion he really does not give a shit about developing kids as he knows this is his last year if he doesn't reach GF. So if we are to start preparing for the upcoming years, MM has to be the first one to go.

Normally I'm against sacking coaches mid-season, and I'm still leaning that way, but I must admit that MM's gameplan being so different to every other team's gameplan leaves us in a precarious position. If he is given the rest of the season to see out;
a) the new coach doesn't get to see which players are suited to a new gameplan before making a decision on them
b) we basically kiss 2010 goodbye because it'll take at least that long to adjust to the new gameplan, IMHO.

He is starting to look a little foolish poor old Eddie is. Backing players that lie to him, massive write offs on the pubs, blustering every time someone writes what are becoming more and more accurate articles criticising the club and now the 'real crack' at the flag statement. I dont think Eddie likes to me made look foolish and maybe this will prompt him to act sooner rather than later. I hope it does!

I don't think Ed has begun to look foolish, only a fool would expect Ed to conduct his role without making the odd mistake here and there. The guy is human, FFS. Having said that, I think with a new coach who doesn't merely pay lip service to the phrase "leadership group", we may be able to deal better with these matters in house rather than letting everything build to a spectacular crescendo in the media.

I believe a new coach can give players who need to be assesed roles to play and see if their is any promise. As it stands, if he has to do it at the onset of a new season, its a season wasted finding out what we could have found out in a season where little was on the line.

I agree on this point, as I mentioned above, and as such I can see an argument for and against sacking MM mid-season, though I'd normally be dead against it.

 

[FuManchu]

I don't think Ed has begun to look foolish, only a fool would expect Ed to conduct his role without making the odd mistake here and there. The guy is human, FFS. Having said that, I think with a new coach who doesn't merely pay lip service to the phrase "leadership group", we may be able to deal better with these matters in house rather than letting everything build to a spectacular crescendo in the media.


I agree on this point, as I mentioned above, and as such I can see an argument for and against sacking MM mid-season, though I'd normally be dead against it.

On the contrary, I think if EM sticks with MM in the face of a poor season, ridicule from all quarters and a trend indicating another decline in onfield performances, all because EM has a' belief' that MM is the best out there, when every year a it is proven that there are far better coaches out there, then he will look increasingly foolish.

To come out at the start of the season and say that this season we are close was ridiculous and not being a big MM fan, I still believe it was unfair on MM to do that. All it did was bung it all back on MM and the players, when in reality the board should have been looking at their own lack of proper review that led to this situation of 'not quite ever being good enough', but still tolerating the coach that never made us quite good enough.

I do believe EM is looking foolish even moreso in the light of talking about Bucks and Williams in one breath and letting stories get out about resigning MM in another. And all the posturing he did about Walls and Caro's articles this year only to himself put all that pressure on MM himself is a little hypocritical. Do you honestly believe he did that without knowing it was him creating that little distance between himself and MM if the season went sour as it is looking to do now?

EM needs to make a definitive statement soon about where the coaching situation is, because as Shane Wakelin points out, we have a coach looking disinterested, we have a president on one hand talking about Bucks and Williams, and then we have talk about MM being reappointed. EM is supposed to be a master of media and spin, but it looks more like a story spinning out of control.

We would all sit a lot easier knowing what our coaching fate will be at seasons end. I just think EM knows MM would be an unpopular reappointment and he would rather the media and public undermine MM rather than himself. Its a bit of a gutless way of doing the job if it needs to be done. He should just front up and say we are on the decline onfield, you have had 10 years, thanx but we need a new direction. But it seems he is allowing more external influences create the scenario in which he is more willing to step in.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

On the contrary, I think if EM sticks with MM in the face of a poor season, ridicule from all quarters and a trend indicating another decline in onfield performances, all because EM has a' belief' that MM is the best out there, when every year a it is proven that there are far better coaches out there, then he will look increasingly foolish.

You're disagreeing with me on the basis that something that hasn't happened yet, might happen?

I'm not interested in bagging good people, who have Collingwood's best interests at heart, based on hypothetical future scenarios.

 

[FuManchu]

You're disagreeing with me on the basis that something that hasn't happened yet, might happen?

I'm not interested in bagging good people, who have Collingwood's best interests at heart, based on hypothetical future scenarios.

What hypothetical? EM has already stated many a time he thinks that MM is the best coach going round, and then at the start of the season he bung it all back on MM by stating this was the year. That isnt a hypothetical, it is fact.

EM then has gone on the say that Williams and bucks are in the mix for the next coaching job and then he is apparently offering MM an extension. EM is all over the shop on this one. There is no consistancy to what messages he is sending out. It doesnt make him look all that good. That isnt hypotheitical, that is the reality.

If MM is the best coach going round as EM has stated, then why hasnt he landed a flag in 15 years, and why hasnt he landed one at Collingwood? EM cant have it both ways, he cant be the greatest coach and yet not land us the big one in 10 years. And I am hazarding a guess and saying that EM knows that MM's time has come, but he would rather the tide of external opinion do the undermining, whilst he looks loyal to MM and when the time comes, he will stick the knife into MM and then say it was public opinion. Dont ever think EM wouldnt do it, he is a politician by nature