What Would You Prefer?

[_RT_]

Seems that there is a bit of discussion as to how we should go about the rest of the season. As it stands now we are holding pick 1 and in position to snare another pick in the top 20 via a Priority Pick if we fail to win 3 more games. Gaining 3 top 20 picks would give us a good injection of youth and enable us to cut an extra hack from the list in the off season.

On the other hand there is another school of thought that says winning breeds confidence. If we were to win 5 games for the rest of the year the list heads into the pre season with a little bit of confidence that things are turning around. Saying that, we will, in all likelihood end up with pick 1 anyway.

So the question is what would you prefer: Play the rest of the season and get experience into the kids along the way securing a PP or try and win as many games as possible in the second half of the year and lift the confidence level of the group.

 

[Wally07]

Chose to win as many as possible but not through playing older guys like kingsley. Pick the kids and win as many as possible.

 

[beaver fever]

If the football club had any professionalism, it can not possibly play to lose. Must go out there with the intent to win. Sure play the kids, but only if their form demands it.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Win as many as possible for me aswell.

I've said for a long time, a winning culture wins flags. A losing culture and bottoming out doesnt.

Like Wally said though, the majority should be kids. Get McGuane in ffs.

 

[PHX]

Win as much as possible, which will still be only 3-4.

Get McGuane and Hughes in.

The rest of the Kids dont deserve another go yet but JAck and Meyer should continue knocking on the door.

And just wait til Peterson and Connors get full match-fitness.

 

[_RT_]

Chose to win as many as possible but not through playing older guys like kingsley. Pick the kids and win as many as possible.

If the football club had any professionalism, it can not possibly play to lose. Must go out there with the intent to win. Sure play the kids, but only if their form demands it.

Win as many as possible for me aswell.

I've said for a long time, a winning culture wins flags. A losing culture and bottoming out doesnt.

Like Wally said though, the majority should be kids. Get McGuane in ffs.

All 3 of you would prefer to win as many as possible and that is fair enough, but say we won 4 games in the remainder of the season, and missed a PP because of it which equates to another top 20 kid would you be happier to have that extra win because it felt good to sing the song 1 extra time ot would you be happier with another potential star that we picked up because of using the system to our advantage.

Personally I would prefer that we use the system to our advantage too many times we have won just enough games to miss out on the top end of the draft, i.e finishing between 9th -12th. Twice in the last 10 years have we been in position to get a top 3 pick and one of those occasions we traded away for Johnson. This year as I said we are almost certain of pick 1 but why not use the system to get that extra pick and really set our selves up for the next few years. Everyone else has done it why not us?

 

[krustyman]

tigers got enough dud drafts already, until they address recuiting there is no difference. week after we drool over what other clubs chose, like franklin, hurn, pettard etc.

 

[beaver fever]

This year as I said we are almost certain of pick 1 but why not use the system to get that extra pick and really set our selves up for the next few years. Everyone else has done it why not us?

It's not about "is winning 1 game better than another draft pick?". It's about how our club goes about it's business. Sure at the end if we win 4 more games, it wouldn't be the best result. I'd rather not win 4 games exactly, if that's your question, but I would not want to intentionally lose.

if we were in round 22 and on 3.5 wins you can't expect our players to pull back and intentionally lose.

 

[_RT_]

It's not about "is winning 1 game better than another draft pick?". It's about how our club goes about it's business. Sure at the end if we win 4 more games, it wouldn't be the best result. I'd rather not win 4 games exactly, if that's your question, but I would not want to intentionally lose.

if we were in round 22 and on 3.5 wins you can't expect our players to pull back and intentionally lose.

As you guys have said you want to win as many as possible but also want to play the kids we can't have it both ways. If we play the kids we are bound to lose more than we win as already seen this year, yet if play the experienced players to get the wins because the kids don't deserve to play then all we are doing is repeating the process of hiding the true state of the list. I would love to win as many games as possible but I would not like to do that if it is going to cost us a top 20 kid for the sake of a few meaningless wins.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

As you guys have said you want to win as many as possible but also want to play the kids we can't have it both ways. If we play the kids we are bound to lose more than we win as already seen this year, yet if play the experienced players to get the wins because the kids don't deserve to play then all we are doing is repeating the process of hiding the true state of the list. I would love to win as many games as possible but I would not like to do that if it is going to cost us a top 20 kid for the sake of a few meaningless wins.

Its not like we are purposely dropping experienced players just to play the kids. How many of them are missing out because of kids?

 

[beaver fever]

As you guys have said you want to win as many as possible but also want to play the kids we can't have it both ways. If we play the kids we are bound to lose more than we win as already seen this year, yet if play the experienced players to get the wins because the kids don't deserve to play then all we are doing is repeating the process of hiding the true state of the list. I would love to win as many games as possible but I would not like to do that if it is going to cost us a top 20 kid for the sake of a few meaningless wins.

But we are playing the kids. Have a look at our side. Polak, Raines, Thursfield, Deledio, Tambling, White, Jackson, Foley, Howat, King, Edwards, Pattison. Thats 12 out of 22. We need to play the guys that warrant selection, and this won't change the fact our side consists mainly of kids. I think we can have it both ways.

 

[_RT_]

Its not like we are purposely dropping experienced players just to play the kids. How many of them are missing out because of kids?

Most have been injured and it seems as soon as they are fit enough they are getting played. Why? Is it so Wallace can win a few extra games and make himself look better in the eyes of some? Is it because they have shown better form than the kids? Using Kent as an example, played a few games at Coburg after his ankle injury but once supposedly fully fit he was brought in and who made way Schulz a player we are supposed to be developing into a FF for the future. Last week there was also talk that with Knobel being close to resuming and Simmonds as well we should play them and have Patto drop back to play at Coburg. Again I ask why?

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Schulz deserved to be dropped back to Coburg. They cant get a free ride. Thats just rediculous. He wasn't performing at all.

Simmonds is our number 1 ruckman. You can't tell me you'd leave him out on purpose just to give Pattison a go? Hes played a bunch of games in a row now to get a good feel.

 

[_RT_]

But we are playing the kids. Have a look at our side. Polak, Raines, Thursfield, Deledio, Tambling, White, Jackson, Foley, Howat, King, Edwards, Pattison. Thats 12 out of 22. We need to play the guys that warrant selection, and this won't change the fact our side consists mainly of kids. I think we can have it both ways.

As I said we are playing the kids and the record speaks for itself. 0-9-1 and consider that we have return games against WCE, Swans, Cats, Pies, Dons & 2x Saints in the last 11 games I don't see us winning many games at all. In fact about the only 3 chances I would give us are the Roos, Hawks and Port here. When you look at that draw we are playing for the pick without really having a choice.

 

[_RT_]

Schulz deserved to be dropped back to Coburg. They cant get a free ride. Thats just rediculous. He wasn't performing at all.

Simmonds is our number 1 ruckman. You can't tell me you'd leave him out on purpose just to give Pattison a go? Hes played a bunch of games in a row now to get a good feel.

Schulz has been dropped for Kent that is where I have a problem with it, if it was for Hughes or Riewoldt then fair enough, but not for Kent. Let me ask you who would you prefer played one of the kids or Kent?

I was not talking about Simmonds replacing Patto rather the talk that Knobel should come is as well to replace Patto who has shown that he may just have found his spot as a ruckman.

 

[PLSC]

collingwood - tanked 05
essendon - tanked 06

professional my ass, its about assesing the situation and realising where the club is at and taking advantage

dont be stupid!

carlton are winning games which is good, great to see pagan's ego get in the way with playing duds like bannister and wiggins and saddington trying to win games instead of developing guys like bower and kennedy

get them out of the priority picks and with a bit of luck out of the top 5 draft picks

melbourne will start winning games so the spoon unfortunetly is ours, if we dont get the priority picks the club is not just dumb but a pure disgrace!

winning games is bullshit, 1 games doesnt shape your future but a pick 17 midfielder hopefully can

 

[beaver fever]

When I say go for the win, that doesn't mean I think we will actually win. But to go into the game with the intent to lose is unacceptable.

I think Wallace is doing the right thing in playing the guys with the form. Sure Kingsley's form hasn't been spectacular, but that gives Riewoldt and Hughes a big chance to step up at Coburg to deserve a selection. Can't get a free ride at Richmond.

 

[PLSC]

When I say go for the win, that doesn't mean I think we will actually win. But to go into the game with the intent to lose is unacceptable.
I think Wallace is doing the right thing in playing the guys with the form. Sure Kingsley's form hasn't been spectacular, but that gives Riewoldt and Hughes a big chance to step up at Coburg to deserve a selection. Can't get a free ride at Richmond.

like how bradley played on richo while getting his ass handed to him, or how the dons threw away the game last year against the dogs

or how the pies sent tarrant and rocca in for surgery mid 05 which was pure tanking

cant get a free ride is bullshit, it up to the coaches to motivate the players not using 28 yr old hacks like kingsley for ammunition to guys like schulz

wake up mate

 

[beaver fever]

like how bradley played on richo while getting his ass handed to him, or how the dons threw away the game last year against the dogs

or how the pies sent tarrant and rocca in for surgery mid 05 which was pure tanking

cant get a free ride is bullshit, it up to the coaches to motivate the players not using 28 yr old hacks like kingsley for ammunition to guys like schulz

wake up mate

You really think playing kingsley is going to give us a chance in hell anyway? We are going to lose with him in the side or not. We are already playing a host of kids, we can't play every single one of them.

 

[_RT_]

When I say go for the win, that doesn't mean I think we will actually win. But to go into the game with the intent to lose is unacceptable.

I think Wallace is doing the right thing in playing the guys with the form. Sure Kingsley's form hasn't been spectacular, but that gives Riewoldt and Hughes a big chance to step up at Coburg to deserve a selection. Can't get a free ride at Richmond.

I am of the same opinion we should go into games thinking we can win, but as I said when it comes to the crunch I would prefer the situation we find the side in they should do what they can to help themselves if this means we go through a season with 3 wins and a PP then so be it. Tell you what when Brown is ready I hope they drop Kent for Brown and then play one of Hughes/Riewoldt/Schulz along side Brown and Richo. Down back if form warrants bring in Hughes, try Casserly, give Connors a taste, let them see what it is like at the top. After round 15 any player that requires surgery or looks like missing more than 3 games should be put on the shelf and get themselves right for a big pre season.

 

[beaver fever]

I am of the same opinion we should go into games thinking we can win, but as I said when it comes to the crunch I would prefer the situation we find the side in they should do what they can to help themselves if this means we go through a season with 3 wins and a PP then so be it. Tell you what when Brown is ready I hope they drop Kent for Brown and then play one of Hughes/Riewoldt/Schulz along side Brown and Richo. Down back if form warrants bring in Hughes, try Casserly, give Connors a taste, let them see what it is like at the top. After round 15 any player that requires surgery or looks like missing more than 3 games should be put on the shelf and get themselves right for a big pre season.

Yeah that sounds pretty good. But if Kingsley plays well it wouldn't be right to drop him. However as with Gaspar, if any of Hughes/Riewoldt/Schulz form is on par with Kingsley, then they should be given preference.

 

[_RT_]

Yeah that sounds pretty good. But if Kingsley plays well it wouldn't be right to drop him. However as with Gaspar, if any of Hughes/Riewoldt/Schulz form is on par with Kingsley, then they should be given preference.

Yes but Wallace is on record as saying that Kent was brought into put pressure on these kids not take games from them, if Brown is fit and ready to play then I see no point in having Richo, Brown and Kent playing at AFL level and Hughes, Jack and Schulz playing at Coburg.

 

[camsmith]

We aren't St Kilda or Hawthorn. We dont need to intentionally bottom out in order to go up. A losing culture is the worst thing kids can be introduced to - sometimes you cant help that, but you shouldn't be encouraging it.

 

[beaver fever]

Yes but Wallace is on record as saying that Kent was brought into put pressure on these kids not take games from them, if Brown is fit and ready to play then I see no point in having Richo, Brown and Kent playing at AFL level and Hughes, Jack and Schulz playing at Coburg.

Yeah put pressure on them. That means if form warrants he plays and they don't. Simple as that. If you can't handle VFL how are you supposed to handle AFL? At least at coburg level these guys can play the key positions and don't have richardson to take the majority of the ball. in other words they can play their natural game.

 

[_RT_]

We aren't St Kilda or Hawthorn. We dont need to intentionally bottom out in order to go up. A losing culture is the worst thing kids can be introduced to - sometimes you cant help that, but you shouldn't be encouraging it.

We took the option of winning as many as possible last year and where has that got us this year, nowhere. Why shouldn't we take advantage of the system and bottom out completely. This year with the PP and delistings we should be able to turn over at least 6-8 players from the list. After all the ones we do delist/trade have not taken us anywhere near success so no real loss is it.