When does one era end and another begin?

[bingle]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

I tend to be one that will probably associate the "era" and its length on the success as fair or unfair as that may sound.
As for when the team will drop off thus ending the "era" in my mind, no one knows for sure.
I had people lining up to tell me at the end of last year (as I'm sure most of you did too) that the era was over, Cats are finished, they'll slip down the middle of the pack etc etc.
For all of these people I had one simple question.....Who, aside from Collingwood, are or will be better than Geelong??
Funnily enough not one person had an answer for me that was realistic And funnily enough despite the success this season I've had the same people come to me with the same statements for next year. I asked the same question and got the same answers (with the exception of Carlton appearing to be legit)
I will be utterly shocked if the Cats arent top four again next season. They are the benchmark, they are the best, yes the retirements are a set back but they can be covered enough to suggest they should be flag favourites again if not close to it.
For mine, the era continues, the club will continue to defy the odds in the draft and salary cap era and be successful for another couple of years at least. If they are premiers again in 24 months time, who knows how long it goes

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

I've got a few thoughts about this...

1. Linking it to a single player's career doesn't work. By that logic, if Brisbane improved out of sight in the next three years and win the flag in 2014, it's tacked on to the 2001-2004 dynasty, if Brown is still playing. Even though they still had a lot of familiar faces running around in the mid-late 00s, Brisbane was not the same team. Whether we're winning premierships or not with Selwood/Hawkins in 2020, it ain't the same dynasty.

2. I'd suggest that if you miss the finals in the modern era, that's dynasty over. No excuse for a 'dynasty' to miss out on the top eight, as far as I'm concerned. Same goes for two years outside the top four.

3. Dynasties always tend to commence (in public perception) with the first premiership. Wasn't Brisbane's 2001 side practically the same as their 1999 side (Brown/Michael/Pike...anyone else?) with a bit of seasoning? I'd guess that 75%+ of that Lions team had been with Brisbane since 1998-99 or earlier. So don't worry about when the team came together, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (except to us).

4. Minimum 0.5 - Premiership/years of dynasty ratio. On further consideration, this may be a bit harsh. Perhaps two grand final appearances for every three years would be better.

5. In retrospect, the dynasty is concludes with the last grand final appearance. I could be talked into amending this to the last preliminary final appearance, considering top four out of eighteen is still a pretty good achievement. But if we get knocked out in a SF/EF this year, no-one will be talking about the 2007-2012 dynasty, it will be 2007-2011.

So, our dynasty begins with 2007 and officially ends in 2013 if we don't win a flag by then, or next year, if we miss the finals, as far as I'm concerned. Once we have officially determined the closure of our dynasty, it is amended to finish with the final grand final (or preliminary final) appearance.

How does this apply to the Hawthorn 1971-1991 dynasty? Well, they missed the finals for two straight years after 71. So 1971-1975 is cancelled (1976 being their next flag) in any dynasty talk. They won in 1976, finished third in 1977, won in 1978 (ok...now we're getting somewhere), then went 10-12 in 1979. Sorry Hawks, dynasty over. They stayed relatively dormant until 1982, when they lost the preliminary final to Carlton. They won the flag in 1983, lost the grand final to Essendon in 84-85 (dynasty teetering), won again in 86, lost in 87 (dynasty again teetering), won in 88-89, scraped into the finals in 90 and won again in 91. To me, that equates to a mini dynasty from 1976-1978 and a true dyansty from 1983-1991.

 

[who knows]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

this is why I get annoyed with opposition supporters who obviously don't quite know the Geelong list.

What about the following group who are 23 years of age and under:
Guthrie, Brown, Vardy, Menzel, Duncan, Christensen, Hunt, Cowan, Hogan

it's not about not knowing the geelong list, but it's hard to see geelong producing players of that quality.

but I reckon Christensen is going to be every bit as good as a Pritchard

big call.

 

[who knows]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

How do you know this? Got a crystal ball have we? Who was "pirtichard" by the way. I remember Darren Pritchard - fantastic player for a few years there.

it's not about the geelong players but the start of the next hawthorn era was because of guns like pritchard, jarman, dunstall, breeton, etc, which geelong wouldn't seem to have.

 

[Scarlett Fever]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

For mine it is not about the players. I would define an era as a period where the club remains in contention to win a flag with a gap of no more than 2 years. In real terms that means the period in which we finish top 4 and if we are out of the top 4 for more than 2 years in a row then that is the end of an era.

 

[Daisychain]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

big call.[/quote]

Big call? A massive call! Doesn't mean it's not true, though. The poise, skill and talent Christensen displayed in the GF, his sheer attack on the ball, broke my heart!

 

[oozeboss]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

Big call? A massive call! Doesn't mean it's not true, though. The poise, skill and talent Christensen displayed in the GF, his sheer attack on the ball, broke my heart!

The point is that we've seen Bundy doing this increasingly throughout the season. The game before the one where he got the Rising Star nom was a case in point: he was aguably best on field that day.

Game after game this year, he produced performances in the vein of his Grand Final performance that had us on this board drooling with anticipation. So when he stepped up and played as he did on The Big Day, none of us were ambushed.

Similarly, we are highly aware of the emerging talents of Vardy, Menzell, West & Duncan et al, and as they ease their way into the first team and start accruing that vital first 50 games of experience, we know what sort of jaw dropping impact that they will have, individually & collectively, on the competition.

With no disprespect intended, others outside our group without our tunnel vision focus on our squad simply can not be aware of the impending glory of our team.

 

[who knows]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

The point is that we've seen Bundy doing this increasingly throughout the season. The game before the one where he got the Rising Star nom was a case in point: he was aguably best on field that day.

Game after game this year, he produced performances in the vein of his Grand Final performance that had us on this board drooling with anticipation. So when he stepped up and played as he did on The Big Day, none of us were ambushed.

Similarly, we are highly aware of the emerging talents of Vardy, Menzell, West & Duncan et al, and as they ease their way into the first team and start accruing that vital first 50 games of experience, we know what sort of jaw dropping impact that they will have, individually & collectively, on the competition.

With no disprespect intended, others outside our group without our tunnel vision focus on our squad simply can not be aware of the impending glory of our team.

every club fans rate the young players coming through, it's not unique to geelong.

having a good look at the talent coming through it doesn't look enough to forge a dyasty on its own, unless they rid on the coattails of the current senior group.

 

[GFC123]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

I see it as 2007-present, our era is not over yet. Next season may be our last hurrah, but you never know, i think it'll end 2007-2013.

 

[oozeboss]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

having a good look at the talent coming through it doesn't look enough to forge a dyasty on its own, unless they rid on the coattails of the current senior group.

I really think that there comes a point where you can push a negative perspective on another club's forum well past the point of good manners.

The era of your participation in this discussion has ended. Time to sit back and contemplate the "interesting" Ross Lyon era that your own club has inflicted upon itself.

 

[you pick one]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

Waiting for the DVD. The Ottens Era.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

Double post

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

I really think that there comes a point where you can push a negative perspective on another club's forum well past the point of good manners.

The era of your participation in this discussion has ended. Time to sit back and contemplate the "interesting" Ross Lyon era that your own club has inflicted upon itself.

Have a look at his posting history (particularly on Bay 13) and tell me he doesn't support Hawthorn. Or that he hasn't created this persona strictly to troll Geelong. Time for whoknows to depart our board, or mod intervention, methinks.

 

[Connoisseur]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

every club fans rate the young players coming through, it's not unique to geelong.

having a good look at the talent coming through it doesn't look enough to forge a dyasty on its own, unless they rid on the coattails of the current senior group.

This clown is transparent as hell. I've noticed Hodgepodgey is currently on a red card, is that you HP going under a proxy alias? lol

 

[CatFan73]

Our retired players now have one important task left for the club: Find a nice athletic lady and start pumping out baby boys.

 

[RogersResults]

After their win in 1991 the message on Hawthorn's 1992 summer T-shirt was, "Too Old, Too Slow, Too Good".

Next came three quick exits in their last three of thirteen consecutive finals series.

 

[Sttew]

The era ends when the fat lady has sung, when the team has hit bottom.

Take the Geelong side that won the 51 & 52 premierships. 11 years later it won another, but in between there was a wooden spoon and a complete turnover of players.

 

[RogersResults]

The era ends when the fat lady has sung, when the team has hit bottom.

Take the Geelong side that won the 51 & 52 premierships. 11 years later it won another, but in between there was a wooden spoon and a complete turnover of players.

The turnover was complete when the last of the 1952 Grand Final squad, 19th man, Ron Hovey played his last game in round 5, 1960. The first of the 51-2 Premiership players started in 1946.

(There were also 2 'wooden-spoons' - 1957 and 1958.)

Fred Wooller 1956 (8)
Colin Rice 1957 (6)
Bill Goggin 1958 (5)
John Yeates 1959 (3)
Alaidter Lord 1959 (3)
Paul Vinar 1959 (3)
Ken Goodland 1959 (3)
Hugh Routley 1959 (3)
Jonh Brown 1960 (1)
John Devine 1960 (1)
Stewart Lord 1960 (1)
Peter Walker 1960 (1)

1963 Premiership players, the year they started and how many 1951 or 1952 Premiership players (in brackets) were still at the club in the year they started.

So there is some connection between the 51-52 squads and the 63 but no direct carry-over of players from one Premiership to the next. However Bob Davis, Ron Hovey, Bernie Smith, Neil Trezise and Geoff Williams have the unique record of being in a club 'era' where both back-to-back flags and back-to-back spoons were won.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

After their win in 1991 the message on Hawthorn's 1992 summer T-shirt was, "Too Old, Too Slow, Too Good".

Next came three quick exits in their last three of thirteen consecutive finals series.

True enough and that may also happen to us. The thing is though we've lost four players between the ages of 30-34, a 26 year old and a 24 year old. Presumably, their spots will be taken by players who are 4-16 years younger, unless we pick up a couple of mature-agers (which we may very well do). Either way, the average age of our list will probably drop by about 1.5 years. Next year, we are a good chance to lose 3-4 more 30+ year olds and we won't be looking like an old team anymore. We may not be particularly good, but we won't be old.

 

[Partridge]

Re: When does one era end and another begin...???

it's not about the geelong players but the start of the next hawthorn era was because of guns like pritchard, jarman, dunstall, breeton, etc, which geelong wouldn't seem to have.

Ah Podgy, it's not about the Geelong players, but it's on the Geelong board. Good call.

 

[All Spark]

Everyone was saying our era was over in 2010 after Collingwood smashed us in the Prelim and we lost Gary Ablett and Bomber Thompson. Look what happened afterwards

Stephen Wells has done a great job in managing our list in the last 5 years by slowly replacing the older players with youngsters, not to mention how good he is at finding talent in the draft given we haven't had high draft picks.