Review When does the Penny drop for Sando

[smoovy]

Not sure what you're on about Smoovy, he's contracted, we own the rights to trade him. Free agency is irrelevant.

I am happy to stand to be corrected, but who was the last contracted player being forced into a trade?

 

[hugecannon]

Do players have to agree to trades?

If not we can trade Reilly as we like. He's under contract, so we "own" him and the rights to him.

Unfortunately players do have to agree to being traded, I'm not a fan of trading players against their will, but I strongly believe that if a player quits a club, before he's eligible for FA they've forfeited those rights, and the club should be able to do the best deal possible for them.

 

[Slippery Pete]

No one. Pets has a shoulder and isn't a forward. This year without an alternative it has to be Callinan but we have to get a new one for next year.

Well that's a different argument.

There are people in these parts saying he should have been flicked after last year's finals series.

 

[JP Sauce]

When they are uncontracted, to a certain extent they do, if they don't they go into the draft.

If they are contracted then they most certainly do have to agree to the trade...it is a contract!

I wasn't sure. There's lots of different rules in different sports about trading and the rights of the players involved.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I said it on the day of the Sando appointment that is a high ranking Geelong official told me that Geelong had a key concern with Sando's ability to make the tough call on players

With this in mind there is no doubt that Sando builds strong relationships with his players however 18 months has past and we are yet to see one tough calls on any senior players

In 2012 despite winning Porpy, Vince and Nutter all had long periods out of form, he also picked a unfit Pets for the Prelim and a out of form Callinan for the Prelim

in 2013 Porpy has been poor, then dropped and then won his spot back without playing a game and has been poor since, Radar has been awful in the majority of games, DMac would have been dropped in most other sides and both Pets and Callinan have won their spots back with sanfl form that was sub-Lyon standard however Lyon finds himself back in the two's and has not put a foot wrong

To conclude, I am a SUPPORTER of Sando however if he wants to be a long term coach he needs to be prepared to inject the right level of tension with his players

Stiffy may not agree with you.

Not saying I agree with all Sando's selections either - playing Porps out of form this year is the most mystifying for me.

Hard to have a crack at Sando for last season.

 

[Vader]

Callinan finishes, simple as that. You take the good with the bad and make a judgement call. In my view he was instrumental in many of our wins last year (He kicked as many as million $ man Tippett!). That goal he did kick against the Swans, he would've been the only Crow who would've even thought about turning inside on his left foot there, let alone actually kick it.

Not quite.. but Tex was watching from the Grandstand.

 

[Vader]

Agree, this is the 2nd contract in a row that we have done this with Radar.

There is no reason why this could not have been finalized at season end, not to mention I would have only offered a year deal

I'd be more concerned about the decision (last year) to sign Martin & Jaensch to 2-year contracts. It was an inexplicable blunder then - and it's even worse now, with neither of them looking like escaping from the SANFL ever again.

 

[Vader]

Do players have to agree to trades?

If not we can trade Reilly as we like. He's under contract, so we "own" him and the rights to him.

Yes.

 

[King Elvis]

Stiffy may not agree with you.

Not saying I agree with all Sando's selections either - playing Porps out of form this year is the most mystifying for me.

Hard to have a crack at Sando for last season.

I'd say Stiffy proves the point - he got fat and made it an easy call to drop him; it gets easier every time after the first one.

 

[jenny61_99]

I'd say Stiffy proves the point - he got fat and made it an easy call to drop him; it gets easier every time after the first one.

Did he though? All reports pre-season was that he was his fittest yet.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Sando is a terrible game day coach.

Lol and last week he was a game day god.

I've always said this board should gave the mantra "You're only as good as your last mistake".

 

[King Elvis]

Last week?

Lyons embarrassed him last week; who called him a game day coaching god then??

If it helps, I've been saying it for most of the year - and said it in the Sydney game predictions thread.

Did he though? All reports pre-season was that he was his fittest yet.

Last year, he got fat.

Once you make it easy to drop, you're at risk.

Same as petrol going above a dollar; once a psychological barrier is broken, it's a lot easier to break the next time.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

I probably wouldn't have dropped Callinan, but going into the Hawthorn game he was definitely running out of petrol tickets. Your argument doesn't exactly tell the full story, Callinans 3x 4 goal hauls heading into finals were against Brisbane, Melbourne and Gold Coast, whereas the 4 weeks prior we'd played West Coast, Essendon, Geelong and Fremantle, during which he managed a grand total of 3 goals. Also I wouldn't try to pass off his match against Sydney as a "good game" Sando subbed him right after he kicked his one and only goal.

Having said that, he did probably deserve his spot in our prelim side, Petrenko is a whole other story. Myissue with Callinan is that after he proved himself to be a complete failure in all 3 of our finals, having struggled against top 8 sides all season, is that we proceeded to upgrade him to the senior list and the was brought straight back into the side from injury in round 1 or 2. For mine that was ample proof that we needed to move on from Callinan, it was a good experiment, certainly worthwhile, but time to move on and I've said as much many times. Sando and the rest of our coaching staff seemingly failed to realise this and still seem to believe that Callinan is something that he is not.

For mine this is one example of Sando being reluctant or slow to make tough decisions, another was playing Petrenko, as soon as he hurt himself in the Semi, our approach should have been "I'm sorry Jared, but we just can't afford to take a player with such an injury into an elimination final", especially when we had a player in Riley who'd shown himself capable of playing a similar role. Another is Johncock, sure he appears to have finally drawn the line through him, but really, if he didn't think Johncock was capable of playing in defence, or he wasn't willing to play him there, he should have moved him on. It's a shame and extremely tough to do that to such a great servant of the club, but that is what we are paying Sando and his assistants the big bucks for.

It's not only Sando though, I fear after the recent sagas with Gunston, Tippett etc leaving, we appear to have gotten a little over enthusiastic with our player signings. Sure it's important to get guys like Talia and Jacobs out of the way early. However why are we signing Reilly so early in the year? He's not going anywhere, then Jaensch immediately after one good game early last year, Martin well before the end of the season, Henderson similar and to a 3 year deal. For mine it seems like we've been bullied into signing guys early which says to me we're probably paying overs to a number of guys we just shouldn't be. Sometimes it's worthwhile waiting and seeing what other clubs might throw up for one of your players.

Yeah I completely agree. More often than not our small forwards are up when we play an easy beat and down when we play a top side.

I never continued on into the promotion of Callinan onto the senior list, but agree there too. He can play well at times but he wont improve much before he retires, and right now he is close to retirement.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Stiffy may not agree with you.

Not saying I agree with all Sando's selections either - playing Porps out of form this year is the most mystifying for me.

Hard to have a crack at Sando for last season.

Last season, well he played an unfit Pets and a badly out of form Callinan in the pre-season

He also carried players who were out of form for weeks at a time like Nutta, Porpy and Vince however if you look at clubs like Geelong and Essendon they drop players for poor form and the fact that they are winning does not save a player who has put in 2-3 poor games in a row

 

[Silkman]

Just a stupid comment

Building a side starts at the top

It starts with the naming of your Capt

It follows with the selection of your leadership group

It follows with the selection of your side

A strong statement needs to be made as well as a new direction for the club - Danger as Captain, Sloane as vice. Play two average games in a row, SANFL is where you go. Sydney treated us like a Bulldog treats a rag doll wrapped in meat.

That was simply an inept performance of boys vs men - we were years away to matching them. Fortunately for us, Jetta wasn't there and that Goodes had a quiet one, otherwise it would have needed the mercy rule. How can we go from playing like champions against the Kangawhos to absolute garbage?

A light bulb would have definitely switched on with the entire coaching crew.

Only a win against the Tiggers can remotely remove some of the pain - WTF?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

A strong statement needs to be made as well as a new direction for the club - Danger as Captain, Sloane as vice. Play two average games in a row, SANFL is where you go. Sydney treated us like a Bulldog treats a rag doll wrapped in meat.

That was simply an inept performance of boys vs men - we were years away to matching them. Fortunately for us, Jetta wasn't there and that Goodes had a quiet one, otherwise it would have needed the mercy rule. How can we go from playing like champions against the Kangawhos to absolute garbage?

A light bulb would have definitely switched on with the entire coaching crew.

Only a win against the Tiggers can remotely remove some of the pain - WTF?

We played like garbage for half of that game as well though. The signs have been there all year. We've got so many out-of-form players it's getting ridiculous.

 

[Silkman]

We played like garbage for half of that game as well though. The signs have been there all year. We've got so many out-of-form players it's getting ridiculous.

The team needs to get back to basics. Against Sydney it was totally unaccountable football and we had more pedestrians that a taxi stand would have on a Friday night. Sure we don't have Tex, but the team has lost hope and direction and footee nous. Sydney just toyed with us. What happened to manning up and applying some tackling pressure? They scored at will and in the end put the cue in the rack and slowed it down - job done. You could see the tears in Truck's eyes when Sando was doing his press conference. It was pitiful to see. A cancer has slowly crept into the team.

Just how much has TippoGate cost this club? Phooee.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I am happy to stand to be corrected, but who was the last contracted player being forced into a trade?

Either Chris Groom in 1992 or Jason Mcarntey for mark Stevens in 1997.

I can not remember any forced trades in the 2000's.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Last year, he got fat.

Once you make it easy to drop, you're at risk.

Same as petrol going above a dollar; once a psychological barrier is broken, it's a lot easier to break the next time.

It's the same with the missus.

 

[Silkman]

i agree.
a little bit of the AFC just died inside me tonight. im embarrassed by the effort of most of our team.

Mental or physical issue? The game plan was totally abysmal. With Sydney, it is trench warfare - not free flowing running style. Everyone of their players knew where to run, what to do and to help each other out. We played as though we had NFI on what to do. They counterpunched us at ease. Are they that good and we that bad?

Sando needs to stop the slide or we will be toast.

 

[xchadders]

Mental or physical issue? The game plan was totally abysmal. With Sydney, it is trench warfare - not free flowing running style. Everyone of their players knew where to run, what to do and to help each other out. We played as though we had NFI on what to do. They counterpunched us at ease. Are they that good and we that bad?

Sando needs to stop the slide or we will be toast.

both? mental - because it looks like we're just resting on last years achievements, physical - when was the last time any crow crunched an opposition or even lay a full on tackle? we just dont do it.

no, sydney arent that good. but yes we are that bad - or at least was in that game.

 

[Silkman]

both? mental - because it looks like we're just resting on last years achievements, physical - when was the last time any crow crunched an opposition or even lay a full on tackle? we just dont do it.

no, sydney arent that good. but yes we are that bad - or at least was in that game.

Then things can be turned around. Last year Tex put the fear of the Lord into any player willing to take him on. This year, sans Tex, we look totally like a bunch of choirboys. All you need is a couple of bone jarring tackles and that gets the opposition on edge. On Sydney, did we actually tackle, apart from pup running into a steam train? What is with Porps? Got the guns, friggen use them FFS!
Roo needs to have a quiet word to the lads. Stop the rot and pile on the pressure like in 2012. Sheesh Stiffy putting us in front at the G last year seems like another lifetime. Depressing.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Last week?

Lyons embarrassed him last week; who called him a game day coaching god then??

Sorry, meant the week before, I'm in the US and getting a bit lost with games.

 

[Bacon8]

Either Chris Groom in 1992 or Jason Mcarntey for mark Stevens in 1997.

I can not remember any forced trades in the 2000's.

Pretty sure Josh Kennedy wanted to stay at Carltank. And Lachie Henderson at Brisbane.

 

[maxlilly]

Sando keeps telling us that he doesn't like open & fast flowing footy, 'That's not our style'
Then we play the two most contested footy teams in Freo & Sydney and are clearly found wanting.
It looked like we didn't learn anything from the final we lost to Sydney last year, as we played exactly the same gameplan and got the same result.
It almost looked like the players didn't have any confidence in our gameplan against Sydney either.