When will we contend again?

[SaintsSeptember]

Interesting reading this thread... No one put Goddard into their calculations for our future.... Well before the deal was done - seems people know more about him than I did, not that that means a lot!

I think at the point this thread was made there was plenty of doubt about Goddard.
It would have been a bigger call to say he was staying than to assume he might be leaving.

 

[Baldur]

We lost all our close games, but were never smashed. If we had won our close games we would have been high in the eight. Teams often have a drop off in proformance with a new coach as the new game plan is ironed out.

So I see no good reason why if things work out ok, we should not be capable of winning the flag next year.

 

[hayes]

B: Geary FB Dempster
HB: Gwilt Fisher Simpkin
C: Dal Hayes Montagna
HF: Milera Roo Stanley
FF: Milne Wilkes/Lee Saad

R: McEvoy Steven Armo

Int: Siposs Gilbert Dunell Newnes/Ledger

Decided not to go with Schneider and Gram. Loved both of them but the phase out needs to start next year with Ledger, Newnes and Ross to be rotated for the last couple of spots.

FB to take the first tall, Simpkin the second leaving Gwilt and Fisher to create and use their foot skills which alone will do wonders. Geary and Dempster to play small and everything else is pretty self explanatory. Tallish bench but are all versatile and can pretty much play anywhere.

If it were up to me we wouldn't go with three talls to get another runner like Gram or Schneider in there but I think that's what we'll most likely go with so I went with it as well.

Can't see why we can't give it a crack.

 

[Terror Time]

I have always considered us at our most dangerous with a fit and firing Schnieder lurking across half forward. Be interested how everyone else sees his role in the team next year. He would be one of my first inclusions in the team.

I believe Gram has to play as well and be one of the rotations in the middle. I was critical of him at times last year seeing him as extremely lazy but his best football we all know is first rate. If the younger guys can step up to the plate and play his role however, that would be a good thing as it would make him work harder or end up on the outer.

I like seeing Gilbert named on the bench and not an insta inclusion in the backline. Hope the coach sees it the same way!

 

[Axcellence]

2013 or 2016-17. Next year is still a possibility if everything goes well at draft and trade table. After that, it's a long long breath as until draftees mature.

Based on the trading done so far - I think 2013 seems to me to be a 6th to 10th spot finish. For 2013 to be it, we needed absolutely everything to go our way, i.e. get caddy, hickey and brown. Instead its Geelong who've got Caddy, McIntosh and Rivers. Don't even get me started on Collingwood, Essendon or the Hawks. In the end, You have to beat these other teams to get somewhere realistic and I think the gap's increased rather than decrease.

Again, I am not saying we didn't do well. We did well, but needed to do more to get up further or others to do less well.

I hope we get players like Barlow in the draft and absolutely smash it as our previous drafting hasn't been great. We can't have any slackening as was done during Lyon's years ( in terms of drafting). I really like what the list management team has achieved during the year. We need to set up for post Riewoldt & Hayes era and quite quickly before Gold Coast or GWS's list fully mature. Otherwise we'll be caught in a dogs/melbourne type of failure loop.

 

[mysainters]

Hard to imagine how we will with opposition big forwards looking forward to playing us again.

Only hope Hickey can elevate himself quickly...keeping us competitive in the middle, and our defence won't be under pressure so much this year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hard to imagine how we will with opposition big forwards looking forward to playing us again.

Only hope Hickey can elevate himself quickly...keeping us competitive in the middle, and our defence won't be under pressure so much this year.

OK I make it as :
Tippet ( hahaah)
Cloke
Hawkins
Petrie

that we will struggle with. Any others?

We WERE better when Fisher was back from injury.

 

[mysainters]

OK I make it as :
Tippet ( hahaah)
Cloke
Hawkins
Petrie

that we will struggle with. Any others?

We WERE better when Fisher was back from injury.

Even clubs with resting ruckman appeared to enjoy playing us, Cox especially from memory.

 

[SaintLex]

OK I make it as :
Tippet ( hahaah)
Cloke
Hawkins
Petrie

that we will struggle with. Any others?

We WERE better when Fisher was back from injury.

Buddy, Walker, even JRoo toweled us up!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Buddy, Walker, even JRoo toweled us up!

Its not a 108cm gorrilla we need to defend against Buddy.
Similarly with Walker ( 194cm 98Kg).
Buddy is an athletic freak, I'm not sure how we contain him, but a bigger full back wont cut the mustard.
Walker is very clever. He beats taller defenders the same way Milne beats taller defenders.

A VFL defender wont help against these guys.

Something I have heard is that the AFL were concerned about the lack of contested marks, and that they will be paying more attention to forwards being held etc.
Not sure how this will affect the type of defender we need.

Would expect that this will only help the likes of Riewoldt and Stanley, and would favour more athletic defenders.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Even with Goddard going, I can still see many many areas and ways where we can improve next year and the fact we missed the 8 last season pretty much guarantees us a pretty cushy draw next season (won't be playing any more than 2 teams from this year's top 8 twice, from memory), but bloody hell it would have helped enormously if we'd gotten Caddy and Brown, on top of Lee and Hickey, as Axcellence said. That could have really helped propel us right back up the ladder, if a bunch of other things had fallen into place for us, but it will now be a hell of an effort to do so, although still entirely possible.

We tried to pull off what Sydney did after the 2009 season and got mighty close. Time will tell if we did enough.

 

[saintsrfreak]

It's up to the draft now, if we absolutely kill it then who knows?
Would be nice to pluck a Dangerfield-esque player

 

[aussierulesrules]

Here's hoping that Kennedy and Clurey slip to 25/26!

 

[hayes]

Here's hoping that Kennedy and Clurey slip to 25/26!

And that Adelaide lose a couple of draft picks.

 

[TassieSaint]

Sad as it is to say I think the door is now shut for next year and by extension probably Hayes and Milne.

With some smart moves in this years draft and next years draft and trading, and our kids coming along really well, 2015 could be a possibility with Dal, Montagna, Dempster still playing high level footy, and Roo and Fish still around.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Sad as it is to say I think the door is now shut for next year and by extension probably Hayes and Milne.

With some smart moves in this years draft and next years draft and trading, and our kids coming along really well, 2015 could be a possibility with Dal, Montagna, Dempster still playing high level footy, and Roo and Fish still around.

Am I on my own in thinking Milney could definitely outlast Roo?

Roo has played the most physically destroying position on the ground for 12 years, with his good friend Kosi next to him for most of that time. Has done shoulder injuries, hamstring injuries, knee clean-ups requiring post season surgery almost every year in the past 5 seasons (I think).

Whereas Milney has barely had any bandages in 12 years (I don't actually recall him being injured or requiring post season surgery). And the only game I can remember him missing was back in 2008 when RL was annoyed at him and Dal.

I reckon he's got 2-3 more seasons in him. Not so sure about Roo.

 

[TassieSaint]

Dunno mate. Big forwards who as good as Roo tend to be able to hold down their post a few years past 30. Richo and Barry Hall were All Australian at 34 and 33.

Roo will be 30 next season, Milney will be 33. If Riewoldt can stick around another 3 seasons they'll be 33 and 36.

Injury will certainly play a factor with Roo but I don't think it will be injury that will end Milneys career. He certainly hasn't lost his pace or awareness yet but it can happen quickly.

 

[Jay C]

Am I on my own in thinking Milney could definitely outlast Roo?

Roo has played the most physically destroying position on the ground for 12 years, with his good friend Kosi next to him for most of that time. Has done shoulder injuries, hamstring injuries, knee clean-ups requiring post season surgery almost every year in the past 5 seasons (I think).

Whereas Milney has barely had any bandages in 12 years (I don't actually recall him being injured or requiring post season surgery). And the only game I can remember him missing was back in 2008 when RL was annoyed at him and Dal.

I reckon he's got 2-3 more seasons in him. Not so sure about Roo.

I am pretty sure Milne is quoted somewhere saying he found it really difficult to get going in the first half of the season due to his body?

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Definitely some fair points. I think BBBH's body held up a little better than Roo's though!

And yeah Milney definitely had a slow start to the season. I do recall people calling for his head around rounds 5-6. To turn it into an AA season is incredible and no doubt he's one of the greatest small forwards.

Milney should keep going until he wants to call it quits.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see! Love to see Milney finish with 300 games (258 currently) and 600 goals.

 

[hayes]

The end can come quickly when you're over 30 so while it wouldn't surprise me if Milne went on for another 2-3 years, it also wouldn't surprise me if he didn't make it through next year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its often the third year when a player makes a "breakout".
Under Lyon it took a bit longer , Jack Steven 4 seasons ( 1 without playing any AFL at all ).
Geary played some very good games in 2009. (2006 draft )
Armitage famously stifled under Lyon probably took 5.

Then there is Collingwood, some of who's methods Watters is embracing, who fastracked players like Sidebottom and Beams, even Blair.

This year I'm really hoping we can see some good stuff from the likes of Sippo and Ledge. ( Especially Sippo ).
Its also why I have a horrible feeling we have given away a good player in Cripps right when he's ready to fire up.

IMO it will probably be another season again before we see the likes of Wilkes and Newnes having major impacts on games in a consistant way.

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

Most premiership teams have a healthy core of 24-27yo prime age players, even Sydney was no exception and I think this is what will hurt our chances next year. And unless we pull a rabbit out of a hat for a competitive, ready-made key defender we are up against stiff odds. Not saying it can't be done but the list of things that need to go our way is just a little too long. By 2015 Saad, Milera, Simpkin, Siposs, Stanley will be on 50 games, and Armitage, Steven, Geary and McEvoy will be on 100. That seems to back up Watters' comments.

Our drafting from 09 back is still hurting us, it's ridiculous that we spent years trying to fix our ruck hole and are now in the same mess at fullback. And can we please stop drafting small and medium forwards? Or are we stockpiling them for trade bait?

 

[TassieSaint]

Sydneys B+F top 10 (age)
Kennedy (24)
Richards (29)
O'Keefe (31)
Jack (25)
McVeigh (27)
Smith (24)
Grundy (26)
Jetta (23)
Bird (23)
Hannebury (21)
[Goodes, Bolton and Shaw were next at 32, 32 and 31]

Looking at that Sydney obviously relied a lot on senior players (those in a similar age group to our 09/10 survivors) but had a massive contribution from the 23-25 range.

Our best 22 players who will be in that range next year: Milera, Armo, Geary, McEvoy, Saad, Steven and Simpkin.

Some definite talent in there but not on the same level as Sydney, tough to see those guys really driving us up the ladder.

 

[Persevering Saint]

With Roo, I think there are several points that suggest to me that he's not going to go on past 2013:

1. Most players of his ilk (Carey is a fine example) have a shelf-life of 10 years in that position. He shocked everybody last year with his resurrection (that's essentially what is was), but it's unlikely the lightning will strike twice.
2. The recruitment of Tom Lee suggests to me that the club feels they don't have long to go before they need a replacement.
3. His head is in a different place now. He's preparing for a great life with a beautiful woman on the other side of the world. Certainly can't begrudge him wanting that.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I find it hard to think that losing four or five core players from our previously successful team in one season isn't going to have a damaging effect on our ladder position - not that those players should have stayed, it's just that their loss will have an effect on the place. New players will have to learn new structures, etc, and establish themselves in new positions.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if we finish somewhere between 7-10 again.