Where does Marcus Bontempelli sit in the players of this era

[My Tilly]

I think you mean lethargic, not laconic. Laconic means ‘of few words’ as in speech. Lethargic means ‘sluggish, slow and indifferent.’

No I wanted to say lackadaisical but auto edit changed it and yes, I'm aware of the meaning of the words thanks.

 

[CarnTheScray]

If Bont got 30 and 2 this game like GAJ regularly did at the Suns you’d have a point. But it was obvious he didn’t have a good game and wasn’t solely the teams fault.

30 and 2 in the home away season. Bont pulls out performances like that as well. Suns have never played a final so can't make a serious comparison.

 

[Mr Meow]

Exactly yet heaps and heaps of people on those forum get swayed by Home & Away stats and awards. Let's be clear here - Home & Away footy is an important part of the puzzle during an AFL season and it's also the longest part of the season too. But Premierships are won in September - a very short window of time (only 1 month) but that's when it truly matters most. The pressure is higher, the stakes are higher and the expectation from the media and fans/supporters go up. Finals football is a different level to Home & Away football.

When assessing/ranking players, it's important to take into account their Home & Away record AND their record in Finals footy.

And which of the touted superstars of the 21st century are you suggesting have not delivered in this format?

Bontempelli is being suggested. Dangerfield? Ablett? Selwood? Pendlebury? Petracca? Mitchell?

 

[MagpieJo]

Naicos!

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Naicos!

So far ahead of Bont, Daics would never play a final as crap as that

 

[Freddy Swift]

No I wanted to say lackadaisical but auto edit changed it and yes, I'm aware of the meaning of the words thanks.

Ah yes, that makes sense. Auto edit can be a pest.

 

[Toump Ass]

Fraudulent effort from the All-Australian Captain last night.
Do it when it matters pretender.

 

[Toump Ass]

Top five in the Gary Ayres medal.

Unquestionably the most useless award in football.

 

[MJG14]

Some embarassing comments here. He had an ordinary game but it's not like the guy has a reputation for underperforming in finals.

 

[BlueJet]

His finals campaigns have been a bit of a mixed bag.
He's gun but a step behind the very best IMO.

 

[adammania9]

Some embarassing comments here. He had an ordinary game but it's not like the guy has a reputation for underperforming in finals.

Dusty disappeared in the 2018 preliminary final when his club needed him most. Must be a dud finals player

 

[BarryMorgan]

It's not fishing - look at how many times Ablett jr did it at the Suns
Judd at Carlton (and when the wheels were falling off at the Eagles!).

Dusty carrying Richmond on his back xx times - especially during the 2020 grand final when Richmond were on the verge of losing until he started his engine.

In contrast The Bont goes missing far too often to be considered elite. Certainly vanished when the game was there to be won in the 2021 decider.

Yeah, GAJ did it heaps in finals for the Suns.

 

[Ricmel]

Would love to see him win a Brownlow. Great player and great ambassador for the game.

Probably Saints worst draft decision (and that is saying a lot).

 

[STPer18]

Dusty disappeared in the 2018 preliminary final when his club needed him most. Must be a dud finals player

Bontempelli's performance last night was far better than Dustie's last finals showing in the 2022 EF against Brisbane too. That was an all-time disappearing act.

 

[Walshawk]

It can’t be easy carrying a team in your shoulders like Bont and Cripps do. These guys may find it hard to lift for finals as they have to do the heavy lifting every week.

Whether you think Bont and Cripps are better players than Daicos depends on what part of the game you value higher. Contested ball wining in the inside or brilliant decision making/skills on the outside.

 

[revo333]

So far ahead of Bont, Daics would never play a final as crap as that

Guess we wait a few seasons to find out.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Bontempelli's performance last night was far better than Dustie's last finals showing in the 2022 EF against Brisbane too. That was an all-time disappearing act.

Especially considering Bont played most of the game as a CHF, rather than in the midfield.

Why would a coach want his star midfielder playing in the forward line during a crucial elimination final, where he's likely to have significantly fewer touches?

That's a really great question for Bevo. A really, really great question.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Also, apparently Bevo had Bont on the bench for 22% of the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

You read that right.

For nearly a quarter of the 2nd and 3rd quartets, Bont was sitting on the bench.

No wonder he didn't have much of an impact in those quartets.

And for most of the rest of the match, he was playing up forward.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Where does the Bont sit?

on the sidelines

 

[Frewy]

For careers since 2000 - GAJ, Franklin, Martin, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Judd IMO are the most likely walk up legend selections on playing careers alone and sit above Bont right now. Pavlich and Enright should sit in this category as well IMO, but I'm less sure with their selections.

Bont is probably in the Selwood, Hodge, Swan, Gawn, Pavlich, Enright, N Riewoldt, Hawkins, J Riewoldt, Gray category right now as future Club Legends, AFL Hall of Famers and possible AFL Legends. These players have exceptional varied accolades but careers may have some gaps such as either AA selections (Hodge, J Riewoldt, Gray), modern longevity/games played (Bont, Gawn, Swan, Gray), best midfielder season Brownlow/AFLCA/AFLPA (Selwood), premiership (Pavlich, N Riewoldt, Gray), Goals (Hawkins) or being a defender (Enright)

Assuming he gets his sixth AA this year then in Bont's case its longevity needing probably at least three more high performing seasons (around 300 games) to attempt to move the needle on that legend discussion.

Sixth AA was a tick, but adding another AFLPA Best Captain, Leigh Matthews Trophy (AFLPA) and Charles Sutton probably gets him to legend status now even if he retires at 30. I couldn't care less about the Brownlow, but even for the true believers it's really a moot point now as his other accolades are just too numerous to even have that discussion and still at only 29 at next season start.

I'm sure he would love to add premiership captain to that list, Dogs supporters can only hope.

 

[Fadge]

Sixth AA was a tick, but adding another AFLPA Best Captain, Leigh Matthews Trophy (AFLPA) and Charles Sutton probably gets him to legend status now even if he retires at 30. I couldn't care less about the Brownlow, but even for the true believers it's really a moot point now as his other accolades are just too numerous to even have that discussion and still at only 29 at next season start.

I'm sure he would love to add premiership captain to that list, Dogs supporters can only hope.

Legend of what, the AFL or the Bulldogs?

Because his CV doesn't get him to AFL Legend status.

 

[Frewy]

Legend of what, the AFL or the Bulldogs?

Because his CV doesn't get him to AFL Legend status

Both and I think all the below players have the requisite player CV required since the late 00s onwards:

GAJ, Franklin, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Gawn, Martin, Neale, Bontempelli and maybe Oliver if he turns it around.

Coaching, commentating and administration records that are yet to pass will play a significant part so everything still has an element of speculation. I'd say only GAJ and Franklin are 100% safe from purely player accolades alone, where I can't argue a point of difference in their career can't be surpassed or matched any time soon.

 

[BF Tiger]

Both and I think all the below players have the requisite player CV required since the late 00s onwards:

GAJ, Franklin, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Gawn, Martin, Neale, Bontempelli and maybe Oliver if he turns it around.

Coaching, commentating and administration records that are yet to pass will play a significant part so everything still has an element of speculation. I'd say only GAJ and Franklin are 100% safe from purely player accolades alone, where I can't argue a point of difference in their career can't be surpassed or matched any time soon.

You're far too generous if you think all those players are AFL legend worthy. You've got nine players listed, all who have played in the last five years. Are you sure you're not confusing AFL Hall of Fame and AFL Legend?

 

[Frewy]

You're far too generous if you think all those players are AFL legend worthy. You've got nine players listed, all who have played in the last five years. Are you sure you're not confusing AFL Hall of Fame and AFL Legend?

Not at all, I named two walkups in GAJ and Franklin who I think can get in on just their playing CVs alone. The age spread between the players is 14 years; that is 80-110 HOF inductees at current rates, so approximately 8 to 11 legends at the current 10% max HOF rate, minus at least one or two historical spots for 6-9 legends.

Two or three will probably miss due to either poor coaching records or just getting on with their lives after football and not coaching. Good coaching records have strong weight in Legend status whilst administration, commentating/journalism and personal conduct all play apart as well.

In my mind they are all Legend worthy (Oliver TBD), but some will likely just not make it because their contemporary peers stayed with the game longer and achieved more success on the sidelines which they can't control. For example if someone like Petracca at his current record (future HOF) coaches two or three premierships in the future that might be enough to jump Gawn or Bont if they just go cycling and make coffee after footy.

All the players except Martin still have a chance to move into a walk-up player spot alongside GAJ and Franklin. Martin is probably already in the same tier as GAJ and Franklin, but I'll reserve judgement to see how unprecedented his finals record will be in another 15-25 years.

 

[BF Tiger]

Not at all, I named two walkups in GAJ and Franklin who I think can get in on just their playing CVs alone. The age spread between the players is 14 years; that is 80-110 HOF inductees at current rates, so approximately 8 to 11 legends at the current 10% max HOF rate, minus at least one or two historical spots for 6-9 legends.

Two or three will probably miss due to either poor coaching records or just getting on with their lives after football and not coaching. Good coaching records have strong weight in Legend status whilst administration, commentating/journalism and personal conduct all play apart as well.

In my mind they are all Legend worthy (Oliver TBD), but some will likely just not make it because their contemporary peers stayed with the game longer and achieved more success on the sidelines which they can't control. For example if someone like Petracca at his current record (future HOF) coaches two or three premierships in the future that might be enough to jump Gawn or Bont if they just go cycling and make coffee after footy.

All the players except Martin still have a chance to move into a walk-up player spot alongside GAJ and Franklin. Martin is probably already in the same tier as GAJ and Franklin, but I'll reserve judgement to see how unprecedented his finals record will be in another 15-25 years.

For context… there are currently 32 Legends in the HoF from over 100 years of football, across the four main state leagues up until the 1980s and the AFL since.

Legend status is only for football and coaching deeds. Administration, commentating, journalism and being a good bloke are not factors, although being a campaigner might see you disqualified.

I think you should study the records of the 32 Legends and have a re-think about what might be required to be awarded that honour.

While I agree that GAJ, Buddy and possibly Dusty might get there on playing record alone I think the others all might be some way off. Pendlebury as a two-time premiership player, 6xAA and AFL games record holder (potentially) might just need one flag as a coach. Neale would need another Brownlow and then a few coaching flags. Gawn, Dangerfield and Oliver would need four coaching flags.

Yes it could happen, but it is so unlikely for even just one of them it’s not worth contemplating.