Where it went wrong

[PIES_09]

Ye it does happen to the boys. It happens because they get sucked in to easily.
What do we think, prestigiacomo needs to get the boot he doesnt get the ball. Could we try Leroy Brown at full back.

 

[buzzbuzz]

God no, Presti is the best flat-out stopper in the comp. We have enough rebounding backmen, but Presti is one of a kind.

Having said that, we need to rest him against Melbourne as there isn't a good match up, i.e. a big strong tall leading full forward. He deserves a rest, too. L. Brown in for Bryan, maybe, but not for Presti.

 

[PIES_09]

I Have to honest mate the game has changed he is a very good stopper but, u see hurley on the weekend he can get the ball. Full Backs have been revolutionised thats why the likes of Presti and dustin Fletcher are going to have to retire( those players are still ledgends of the game, but ye presti for me has done it over the years but now the full fowards are quicker he is struggling.

 

[swiftdog]

1. Lack of Movement: We'll get the ball on the halfback-wing area and not one player will make a lead. Can't blame MM for that, someone has to take the initiative to create a lead (Anthony and Cloke were creating leads, not this far up the ground though), B.Reid could have been very handy here.

2. Handballing Overuse: 40 - 45 kicks, 50 - 55 handballs in the first qtr IIRC. If we're not going to run the ball then there really is a minimal need to handball more than kick.

3. Both teams had their chances in the last qtr. Adelaide converted their chances into goals, we didn't.

4. Umpiring... sh!t

 

[FuManchu]

MM is not the only coach to "concede" a certain player possession in order to stem the tide in other areas. While I have never agreed with this "method" or tactic it is not unusual.
Persoanaly I would have thought McCleod would have been first on the list to be tagged or at least heavily defended.
The real issue comes after his obvious influence is noticed and nothing is done.
Leaving a change of tactic until the "horse has bolted" was the big error.
The 10 minute mark of the first quarter was when the gate was obviously ajar.

I forced my self to sit and watch the game last night and to see mcleod run as free as he did was agonising.

I know I am not MM's greatest fan, but his statement just smacks of someone who has surrendered certain aspects of the game, when it is his job to effectively counter all aspects of dominance from the other side, not concede them. And to continue to allowing an player to effectively take the game away from you for so long is sheer lunacy.

Perhaps MM is going a little potty or just too eccentric in his older years.

 

[FuManchu]

God no, Presti is the best flat-out stopper in the comp. We have enough rebounding backmen, but Presti is one of a kind.

Having said that, we need to rest him against Melbourne as there isn't a good match up, i.e. a big strong tall leading full forward. He deserves a rest, too. L. Brown in for Bryan, maybe, but not for Presti.

If a player needs or deserves a rest in Rd2 of the season, then I fear for his long term sustainability for the rest of the season.

 

[buzzbuzz]

That's why he'd be rested... thereby combating the need to... so it's.. all good. I don't understand your logic.

However the 'deserves a rest' bit was the only part of my post that was obviously not serious. He's an old man, man.

 

[FuManchu]

That's why he'd be rested... thereby combating the need to... so it's.. all good. I don't understand your logic.

However the 'deserves a rest' bit was the only part of my post that was obviously not serious. He's an old man, man.

its a bit like joining the army, you sign up for the duration, you dont get to pick and choose your battles.

if any player has been assesed as only 50/50 for the following season, I seriously would question their usefulness to the team. To be in and out only serves to undermine stability, especially in a backline where they need to know each others games to the nth degree. Its the same for Rocca, him being in and out will only throw out of kilter a functioning forward line.

 

[MarkT]

I don't think being brought back to earth will hurt the playing group this early.
It may be what they need to concentrate on the game at hand instead of a perceived flag tilt.

If they have been brought back to Earth then we need to do something about the Alien abductions. Get Moulder on the phone or something. Second thoughts make it Skully. I can’t see how else they got off the ground let alone Earth. Surely they didn’t get ahead of themselves losing a night grand final by 70 points?

For 3 years a game or so has been the difference between top 4 and missing the double chance. Buckley said it before the start of the last season when he tipped us for around 7th – yet it continues to play out the same year after year.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

 

[Skade]

We have never shown Mcleod any respect its a discrace

Licca has done some great jobs on Mcleod. But yes its a disgrace he didn't have a stopper on him this time........ I'd like to see Wellingham groomed for this job.

 

[Lockyer24]

We have a major problem surrounding our ball movement, skills, player positioning and moving the ball down the ground once we are 'locked in' to our defensive half.

Ball Movement - We handball to get ourselves out of trouble, not to create. We do not overlap with runners like the good sides do.
We do not use the corridor. You need to have a designated marking player or two to spot up, and have midfielders running past them at all angles.

Skills - opposition do not mind the ball landing in the hands of our less skilled players. In fact It wouldnt suprise me if they deliberetely free these guys up. We need Shaw Cox, Clarke even Didak pushing back and using their very good footskills to set us up.

Player positioning - Once we slug our guts out to move the ball forward, we do not move our players forward enough and sit back too deep. We are outnumbered in our own forwardline and then in the midfield when the ball is coming out. It was a shambles on Saturday just like the St Kilda final.

I would suggest our coaching staff do a lot of homework into how sides like Geelong cut through these defensive zones like butter, whilst we get made to look very very very ordinary time and time again.

PS Our midfield is terrible. Need to play Beams, Sidebottom, and maybe even Wellingham even if it means some short term pain. 6th-8th finish again will get us no where.

 

[Optimax]

im sorry lockyer24 handballing for the sake of handballing was the issue

We got back into and then ahead through kicking the ball not through handpassing, hadnpassing was our undoing

 

[Lockyer24]

Kicking it would have had the same result opti. We have to get better at handballing. It's the only way.

 

[Optimax]

Kicking it would have had the same result opti. We have to get better at handballing. It's the only way.

I diasgree

hawthorn plays a kicking game, geelong a handpassing game and hawthorn with their best side even their weaken side have the wood on them.

Nothing will move faster the quick ball movement through kicking the thing, there was no surprise to see our kick to handpass ratio go from to 1 to 1.5 or 1.7 to 1 when we got ahead in the third instead if 5 goals done in the last

 

[mdc]

I diasgree

hawthorn plays a kicking game, geelong a handpassing game and hawthorn with their best side even their weaken side have the wood on them.

Nothing will move faster the quick ball movement through kicking the thing, there was no surprise to see our kick to handpass ratio go from to 1 to 1.5 or 1.7 to 1 when we got ahead in the third instead if 5 goals done in the last

This is plain wrong. Hawthorn was second only to Geelong in Handball to Kick ratio last year.

As for beating the zone, run and carry is absolutely the way to do it - the problem is we have too many players who look like they've never practised a handball in their lives, so we **** it up. For all the ado about our kicking, I think our handballing skills on the whole are far, far worse.

 

[Optimax]

This is plain wrong. Hawthorn was second only to Geelong in Handball to Kick ratio last year.

As for beating the zone, run and carry is absolutely the way to do it - the problem is we have too many players who look like they've never practised a handball in their lives, so we **** it up. For all the ado about our kicking, I think our handballing skills on the whole are far, far worse.

Run and handpass will not beat it, just ask footscray

The Gf is a prime example, hawthorn held the ball and kicked alot. Geelong tried to run through it go backwards go sidewards everything always failed.

Kicking through/over will beat the zone, just like a flood kick over the ****en thing all it is a glorified flood

 

[mdc]

Run and handpass will not beat it, just ask footscray

Despite perception, the Bulldogs are actually a kicking side, not a run-and-carry side. I guess you could call them run-and-kick.

Only Collingwood and St.Kilda had a higher Kick:Handball ratio last year.

The Gf is a prime example, hawthorn held the ball and kicked alot. Geelong tried to run through it go backwards go sidewards everything always failed.

Geelong would have won the GF 7-8 times out of 10 in an alternate universe. They just played a shocking game and choked.

Kicking through/over will beat the zone, just like a flood kick over the ****en thing all it is a glorified flood

How exactly do you kick "over" a zone that extends 80-90m?

 

[Optimax]

How exactly do you kick "over" a zone that extends 80-90m?

Either set you tall/good marking players in positions to kick long too

Or run at it and kick to contest 60 meters down field, were at worst you break even for a stoppage

Or hold the ball up kick short forward and repeat until CHF where you can go long to the Goal square and back your forwards to make a contest and either mark it or create crumbs

Rn handpass, go back handpass, dinky kick, shit yourself, handpass, suck a player in, handpass for a agian of 30 meters will never work

 

[mdc]

Either set you tall/good marking players in positions to kick long too

We don't have any other than Cloke.

Or run at it and kick to contest 60 meters down field, were at worst you break even for a stoppage

Really? When Bryan boots it 60m that's the worst than happens? The worst, and usual, outcome is that they win the (4-on-1) contest, and run back the other way unhindered.

Or hold the ball up kick short forward and repeat until CHF where you can go long to the Goal square and back your forwards to make a contest and either mark it or create crumbs

So basically exactly what we usually try to do. Problem with this is that holding the ball up allows the zone to adjust quicker than the ball movement, which is a bad move all round.

Rn handpass, go back handpass, dinky kick, shit yourself, handpass, suck a player in, handpass for a agian of 30 meters will never work

It will work if we have the players who are able to make it work. Problem, as I mentioned, is that too many guys are just flipping useless at handballing. Even guys as good as O'Bree and Didak.

Note how good we look when Pendlebury's the one handballing. Cox is pretty useful here too, as is Maxwell when he has time (but made a ton of uncharacteristic mistakes on Saturday).

 

[buzzbuzz]

Note how good we look when Pendlebury's the one handballing. Cox is pretty useful here too, as is Maxwell when he has time (but made a ton of uncharacteristic mistakes on Saturday).

You know who else has a pretty good handball? Steele 'Hardarse' Sidebottom. Mark my words, he'll be an important part of beating the zone. Maybe.

 

[smiddaz123]

Beams and Sidebottom both showed good handballing traits in their debuts. Both have both foot and hand skills on both sides of their body.

Can only be a good thing.

 

[mdc]

You know who else has a pretty good handball? Steele 'Hardarse' Sidebottom. Mark my words, he'll be an important part of beating the zone. Maybe.

Beams looks promising in this regard too.

 

[Optimax]

Im sorry mdc, you cant move faster then hard running with the ball being kicked. Especially when you at least break even around the stoppages

If we structure up right, and have enough players willing to commit to the hard running required plus long kicking targets up forward we can beat anything

Ask forwards whether they prefer to have incessant hadpass after handpass then aimless bomb, compared to long kicking to one out contests they will choose the kicking game every time.

I might add we dont have a side that can handball effectively at the best of times let alone as our primay gameplan. As i said there was no surprise seeing our handball rate up and us being belted everywhere

 

[Pie eyed]

Bone the Zone.
The Zone and it's various incarnations only works because the rules now force a player to kick asap, even if this disadvantages the side which has possession.
This rule is in existence because of Roos and his ilk.
The AFL and the rules committee came up with the easiest and quickest solution and we now have the today's game.

The kicker should nominate a player who is zoning and kick a hospital pass directly over his position. Our players should come in a full tilt and smash the zoning player while contesting the ball.
If we do this right we get the mark and the zoning player gets very sick of getting smashed very soon. Coach's would change tactic pretty quick I reckon.

 

[FuManchu]

Bone the Zone.
The Zone and it's various incarnations only works because the rules now force a player to kick asap, even if this disadvantages the side which has possession.
This rule is in existence because of Roos and his ilk.
The AFL and the rules committee came up with the easiest and quickest solution and we now have the today's game.

The kicker should nominate a player who is zoning and kick a hospital pass directly over his position. Our players should come in a full tilt and smash the zoning player while contesting the ball.
If we do this right we get the mark and the zoning player gets very sick of getting smashed very soon. Coach's would change tactic pretty quick I reckon.

See, there is a solution to every problem.

Or, we could let Johnson kick in and it wouldnt matter if you zoned or not. Random wins everytime!