Strategy Where To From Here

[_RT_]

Well last night seems to be the moment where we finally hit rock bottom for 2014. The players were putrid, the structures and execution of the game plan was insipid, apart from 2-3 players most didn't seem to give a stuff and everyone seems to be going around in circles trying to find the answers.

So that begs the question: WHERE TO FROM HERE?

Damien Hardwick
Contracted for another 2 years after this, but obviously not getting the job done at the moment. Do we stick with him and give him a chance to turn things around after the first real bump in the road after 4.5 years or do we act in a manner that we have in years gone by and cut him immediately and look for someone else to come in?

Playing List
9 months ago the majority of this list was good enough to get us to 5th place and half a game outside the top 4. Right now the same list looks worse than all but GWS Saints and Brisbane. The ones that aren't currently contracted beyond this year are mostly untried kids so replacing them with another group of untried kids doesn't achieve much. The problem we have is if we go down the path of rebuilding it will take another couple of years to turn over the list as we have a number of senior players that contracted so would need to be traded. So with that in mind do we go out and have a fire sale of sorts and trade away anyone and everyone that will get us good value or do we trade a select few and look to replace them with some high end draft picks yet again?

Game Plan
Last year we were a run and gun type of side, that was good enough to punish sides in the bottom half of the ladder, but when it came to competing with genuine finals contenders was often found wanting. This year we seemed to have gone with a more defensive focus which has stifled the run and gun attitude and also seen most players go into their shells. There is no hardness, there is very little desperation and it seems that every week we have 22 players running around looking after themselves rather than playing as a team. How about we get back to the mantras of when it's your turn to go you go and the jumper never hits the floor because right now not many are going and the jumper is being dragged through the mud.

Team Selection
Lets get back to basics here and reward those that are willing to put their heads over the ball and win it at all costs. Lets get back to rewarding those who are prepared to do the hard yards when we don't have the ball and work their backsides off to try and win the ball back. I've seen plenty of people calling for Thomas to be moved on as he is too slow, and I'll put my hand up and say that I've been among that group, but watching the last couple of weeks he along with Jackson are one of the few in the side that will throw them into contest after contest trying to win the ball. So instead of giving him the flick how about we use him and Jackson as standard bearers for what is required to win a spot in the 22.

Along with that lets just settle players into positions and leave them there rather than moving them around week to week and sometimes quarter to quarter. It didn't work with TW and it's not going to work with Hardwick either. This year we've seen Deledio play midfield/forward/back same with Martin. We've had Grigg/Ellis/Conca playing run with roles one week and then running as link up players the next. Last couple of weeks we've seen Morris play up forward and down back. Then there is the likes of Griffiths and Vickery who are one minute played as KPF then asked to be around the ground rucks.

Lets just decide what roles we want certain players to perform and leave them there. Take a look at the best sides in the competition. They don't chop and change roles from week to week or quarter to quarter. What they do is play their roles each and every week. They know every time they go out to play what is expected of them. Their taggers are taggers, their midfielders are midfielders, their backs play back and their forwards play forward. In doing that they become predictable to each other, they learn each others tendencies and what each other are likely to do in certain situations while our players more often than not seem to have no idea what is going on.

With that in mind how about for the rest of the season we go with:
KPD: Chaplin Rance Astbury Grimes
Medium/Small Defenders: Petterd Vlastuin* Dea Batchelor Houli Morris Helbig
KPF: Riewoldt Griffiths Vickery Elton
Medium/Smal Forwards: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* S.Edwards Knights Lennon McDonough O'Hanlon Lloyd Gordon Arnot
Midfielders: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* Jackson Thomas Ellis Conca Vlastuin* Miles Grigg
Rucks: Maric Hampson

That's a group of 34 players that we use as the foundation of the side moving forward. Those that aren't named are either ones with a line put through them or are kids that aren't ready to play at this level. Some of these guys may not be here as part of what we decide to do with the playing list, but by playing them we may be able to boost their currency at the trade table, while there are others that we can say well we've had a good look at them and they just aren't up to it. Either way you play the players in the positions that they are grouped into and get the side settled and know what is required from them moving forward.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Delist Hampson now , it will send the right message to the playing group
Drop Chappy replace him with Griff at CHB
Play Elton at CHF for the rest of the year
Bring in a medium forward like Aaron Edwards or OHanlon

Drop Grigg straight away , send Morris off for Surgery and get Lloyd back in the side pronto up forward

When Vlaustin comes back he needs to go straight into the midfield and get Jackson out onto a forward flank . Good runner Jacko but not skillful enough for the midfield

Drop Thomas and give Miles and Foley full games until the end of the year and then make a call on foley at years end

Let Hardwick see out the year because he's turning out to be great for draft picks but have Nathan Bassatt ready to go on the Monday after round 23

We are on track for picks 3, 23 , 41 , 59 and 77

At years end on top of delisting Hampson this Monday I'd delist Thomas , Foley could be done but we need to let the poor bloke play full games of footy rather than the sub, retire Chris Newman , there will be more but we have to get games into the entire list and put them on notice to call the rest .

We have to get one or Two free agency targets hopefully Goldsack and Mundy and then go balls deep into the draft

 

[DustinsGuns]

Thomas shouldn't play again this year. We're 3-7. We won't play finals, so give the development to Miles, Helbig, McIntosh, etc

Hampson is a shit truck and unfortunately we're stuck with him for the next 3 years. He is uncompetitive and should never play for us again. I would keep him for this year and next, pay out his final year.

If anyone is playing injured (Cotch, Lids, Morris, etc) then take them out of the team and let hem heal properly.

Probably need to look at getting a new coach aswell. Such a massive drop off in 12 months with effectively the same playing personnel. We have missed Rance, Deledio and Maric for a few weeks but we haven't been absolulety smashed by injuries

 

[DustinsGuns]

I'd also like to see Elton, Darrou and McIntosh play at least half dozen games each aswell before the end of the year.

I would seriously test the trade waters with a number of players aswell. Deledio, Vickery, S Edwards spring to mind.

If we end up with those picks, we need to trade to get at least 4 picks in the top 3, 3 in the top 20.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I'd also like to see Elton, Darrou and McIntosh play at least half dozen games each aswell before the end of the year.

I would seriously test the trade waters with a number of players aswell. Deledio, Vickery, S Edwards spring to mind.

If we end up with those picks, we need to trade to get at least 4 picks in the top 3, 3 in the top 20.

If add OHanlon and McBean to that list as well.and Gordon

 

[TheProwler]

F*** it let's sign Hird up, he does what needs to be done for the team

 

[This Is Anfield]

F*** it let's sign Hird up, he does what needs to be done for the team

Yeah, but unlike bummerland, we can't afford to send him on a million buck sabbatical to France.

 

[sante]

Lol in all honesty the season was gone in Round 3. The changes we want will not happen.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Surely the club has to concede we cant make finals.
Lock away our injured players for surgery and develop the youth.

 

[TheProwler]

Surely the club has to concede we cant make finals.
Lock away our injured players for surgery and develop the youth.

Can't remember his exact words in his presser but he pretty much said their wasn't much left in the shed to bring in. That's an indictment on him and his recruiters you would have to say.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Can't remember his exact words in his presser but he pretty much said their wasn't much left in the shed to bring in. That's an indictment on him and his recruiters you would have to say.

Elton, Miles, Helbig, O'hanlin thats 4 withouteven thinking. Shit we could even give Mcbean a couple of games.
If true that just shows us how Hardwick rates our younger players. His persistent attitude to giving has been hacks continuos games is the reason why he is now in this predicament.
Edit: They may not yet have the class but people really under estimate what a young player can do in regards to energy and just wanting prove something

 

[TheProwler]

Elton, Miles, Helbig, O'hanlin thats 4 withouteven thinking. Shit we could even give Mcbean a couple of games.
If true that just shows us how Hardwick rates our younger players. His persistent attitude to giving has been hacks continuos games is the reason why he is now in this predicament.
Edit: They may not yet have the class but people really under estimate what a young player can do in regards to energy and just wanting prove something

Just checked again and he said the majority of our talent is in the side at the moment. So from that you can say he doesn't think much of the players we have running around in the two's. These are the ones he recruited by the way

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Just checked again and he said the majority of our talent is in the side at the moment. So from that you can say he doesn't think much of the players we have running around in the two's. These are the ones he recruited by the way

Interesting that he sees so many players in our 22 as talented. This will be his undoing IMO.
I hear many people talking about game plan etc but IMO his biggest problem as head coach is team selection.

 

[nut]

Do you think hardwick deserves another 2 years RT???

 

[guruisatiger]

Delist Hampson now , it will send the right message to the playing group
Drop Chappy replace him with Griff at CHB
Play Elton at CHF for the rest of the year
Bring in a medium forward like Aaron Edwards or OHanlon

Drop Grigg straight away , send Morris off for Surgery and get Lloyd back in the side pronto up forward

When Vlaustin comes back he needs to go straight into the midfield and get Jackson out onto a forward flank . Good runner Jacko but not skillful enough for the midfield

Drop Thomas and give Miles and Foley full games until the end of the year and then make a call on foley at years end

Let Hardwick see out the year because he's turning out to be great for draft picks but have Nathan Bassatt ready to go on the Monday after round 23

We are on track for picks 3, 23 , 41 , 59 and 77

At years end on top of delisting Hampson this Monday I'd delist Thomas , Foley could be done but we need to let the poor bloke play full games of footy rather than the sub, retire Chris Newman , there will be more but we have to get games into the entire list and put them on notice to call the rest .

We have to get one or Two free agency targets hopefully Goldsack and Mundy and then go balls deep into the draft

we should finish last and get the spoon and convince fyfe to walk strait into the psd

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

we should finish last and get the spoon and convince fyfe to walk strait into the psd

Keep playing like we are and we will Guru . Hampson is the key to the wooden spoon though . It's brilliant list management

 

[_RT_]

Do you think hardwick deserves another 2 years RT???

As I said in the OP, this is the first real drama that Hardwick has had to deal with in his 4.5 seasons in charge. Prior to then we had shown consistent improvement every year. So I think he deserves at least another 12 months. If come this time next year we're in a similar position to what we find ourselves now then you would have to act and say that he has had a chance to turn things around but hasn't been able to. Having said that if we were to go through the remainder of this season and only beat say GWS and Brisbane down here while getting thumped by everyone else then you would have to revisit the situation and have a real good look at why it happened. If there was no mitigating circumstances like major injuries to explain it then we might be in position to act and give him the flick.

 

[Mr Magic]

Well last night seems to be the moment where we finally hit rock bottom for 2014. The players were putrid, the structures and execution of the game plan was insipid, apart from 2-3 players most didn't seem to give a stuff and everyone seems to be going around in circles trying to find the answers.

So that begs the question: WHERE TO FROM HERE?

Damien Hardwick
Contracted for another 2 years after this, but obviously not getting the job done at the moment. Do we stick with him and give him a chance to turn things around after the first real bump in the road after 4.5 years or do we act in a manner that we have in years gone by and cut him immediately and look for someone else to come in?

Playing List
9 months ago the majority of this list was good enough to get us to 5th place and half a game outside the top 4. Right now the same list looks worse than all but GWS Saints and Brisbane. The ones that aren't currently contracted beyond this year are mostly untried kids so replacing them with another group of untried kids doesn't achieve much. The problem we have is if we go down the path of rebuilding it will take another couple of years to turn over the list as we have a number of senior players that contracted so would need to be traded. So with that in mind do we go out and have a fire sale of sorts and trade away anyone and everyone that will get us good value or do we trade a select few and look to replace them with some high end draft picks yet again?

Game Plan
Last year we were a run and gun type of side, that was good enough to punish sides in the bottom half of the ladder, but when it came to competing with genuine finals contenders was often found wanting. This year we seemed to have gone with a more defensive focus which has stifled the run and gun attitude and also seen most players go into their shells. There is no hardness, there is very little desperation and it seems that every week we have 22 players running around looking after themselves rather than playing as a team. How about we get back to the mantras of when it's your turn to go you go and the jumper never hits the floor because right now not many are going and the jumper is being dragged through the mud.

Team Selection
Lets get back to basics here and reward those that are willing to put their heads over the ball and win it at all costs. Lets get back to rewarding those who are prepared to do the hard yards when we don't have the ball and work their backsides off to try and win the ball back. I've seen plenty of people calling for Thomas to be moved on as he is too slow, and I'll put my hand up and say that I've been among that group, but watching the last couple of weeks he along with Jackson are one of the few in the side that will throw them into contest after contest trying to win the ball. So instead of giving him the flick how about we use him and Jackson as standard bearers for what is required to win a spot in the 22.

Along with that lets just settle players into positions and leave them there rather than moving them around week to week and sometimes quarter to quarter. It didn't work with TW and it's not going to work with Hardwick either. This year we've seen Deledio play midfield/forward/back same with Martin. We've had Grigg/Ellis/Conca playing run with roles one week and then running as link up players the next. Last couple of weeks we've seen Morris play up forward and down back. Then there is the likes of Griffiths and Vickery who are one minute played as KPF then asked to be around the ground rucks.

Lets just decide what roles we want certain players to perform and leave them there. Take a look at the best sides in the competition. They don't chop and change roles from week to week or quarter to quarter. What they do is play their roles each and every week. They know every time they go out to play what is expected of them. Their taggers are taggers, their midfielders are midfielders, their backs play back and their forwards play forward. In doing that they become predictable to each other, they learn each others tendencies and what each other are likely to do in certain situations while our players more often than not seem to have no idea what is going on.

With that in mind how about for the rest of the season we go with:
KPD: Chaplin Rance Astbury Grimes
Medium/Small Defenders: Petterd Vlastuin* Dea Batchelor Houli Morris Helbig
KPF: Riewoldt Griffiths Vickery Elton
Medium/Smal Forwards: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* S.Edwards Knights Lennon McDonough O'Hanlon Lloyd Gordon Arnot
Midfielders: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* Jackson Thomas Ellis Conca Vlastuin* Miles Grigg
Rucks: Maric Hampson

That's a group of 34 players that we use as the foundation of the side moving forward. Those that aren't named are either ones with a line put through them or are kids that aren't ready to play at this level. Some of these guys may not be here as part of what we decide to do with the playing list, but by playing them we may be able to boost their currency at the trade table, while there are others that we can say well we've had a good look at them and they just aren't up to it. Either way you play the players in the positions that they are grouped into and get the side settled and know what is required from them moving forward.

Think this is slightly over reactive IMO.

It is not as if the list has changed greatly from last year and a few saw this potentially coming.

Think our team just for once needs time to develop and grow with a solid foundation on youth rather than recycled players.

On a plus RT WHE is really showing something for GWS this last few months but he is under contract and can't see GWS letting him go in the short term and or cheaply!

 

[guruisatiger]

Keep playing like we are and we will Guru . Hampson is the key to the wooden spoon though . It's brilliant list management

if only i could believe thats what they are doing ,, knowing our luck we win the last few games avoid the wooden spoon and fyfe walks out on freo and goes to saints or the giants ,,,, maybe we need andy collins back could be the secret weapon mk 2

 

[This Is Anfield]

Sunday, 8th June, 2014. Etihad Stadium, playing against North Melbourne, 7.10pm is where to from here.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Keep playing like we are and we will Guru . Hampson is the key to the wooden spoon though . It's brilliant list management

I could have sworn Andy Lee was a Carlton supporter!

 

[nut]

As I said in the OP, this is the first real drama that Hardwick has had to deal with in his 4.5 seasons in charge. Prior to then we had shown consistent improvement every year. So I think he deserves at least another 12 months. If come this time next year we're in a similar position to what we find ourselves now then you would have to act and say that he has had a chance to turn things around but hasn't been able to. Having said that if we were to go through the remainder of this season and only beat say GWS and Brisbane down here while getting thumped by everyone else then you would have to revisit the situation and have a real good look at why it happened. If there was no mitigating circumstances like major injuries to explain it then we might be in position to act and give him the flick.

Well you're atleast you are consistant in the fact you continually change you stand....

The only reason we would have to pay him out is to appease the vocal minority. Even then when was the last time Richmond dumped a coach while they still had 12+ months to go on a contract? The only way we would do that IMO is if Hardwick took us to back to back spoons over the next 2 seasons and that just isn't going to happen. The list is too well positioned for that to happen. At worse I could see us have a North Melbourne type of season where a bunch of close games go against us and we finished in the 9-11 range. Given you've already said that there are 15 sides that are capable of making the 8, it wouldn't exactly be a shock to the system if that happened. In fact given the likelihood of us blooding a few more kids next year I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see us take a step backwards to then take 2 steps forward in 2015-16.

 

[tigerimij]

Well last night seems to be the moment where we finally hit rock bottom for 2014. The players were putrid, the structures and execution of the game plan was insipid, apart from 2-3 players most didn't seem to give a stuff and everyone seems to be going around in circles trying to find the answers.

So that begs the question: WHERE TO FROM HERE?

Damien Hardwick
Contracted for another 2 years after this, but obviously not getting the job done at the moment. Do we stick with him and give him a chance to turn things around after the first real bump in the road after 4.5 years or do we act in a manner that we have in years gone by and cut him immediately and look for someone else to come in?

Playing List
9 months ago the majority of this list was good enough to get us to 5th place and half a game outside the top 4. Right now the same list looks worse than all but GWS Saints and Brisbane. The ones that aren't currently contracted beyond this year are mostly untried kids so replacing them with another group of untried kids doesn't achieve much. The problem we have is if we go down the path of rebuilding it will take another couple of years to turn over the list as we have a number of senior players that contracted so would need to be traded. So with that in mind do we go out and have a fire sale of sorts and trade away anyone and everyone that will get us good value or do we trade a select few and look to replace them with some high end draft picks yet again?

Game Plan
Last year we were a run and gun type of side, that was good enough to punish sides in the bottom half of the ladder, but when it came to competing with genuine finals contenders was often found wanting. This year we seemed to have gone with a more defensive focus which has stifled the run and gun attitude and also seen most players go into their shells. There is no hardness, there is very little desperation and it seems that every week we have 22 players running around looking after themselves rather than playing as a team. How about we get back to the mantras of when it's your turn to go you go and the jumper never hits the floor because right now not many are going and the jumper is being dragged through the mud.

Team Selection
Lets get back to basics here and reward those that are willing to put their heads over the ball and win it at all costs. Lets get back to rewarding those who are prepared to do the hard yards when we don't have the ball and work their backsides off to try and win the ball back. I've seen plenty of people calling for Thomas to be moved on as he is too slow, and I'll put my hand up and say that I've been among that group, but watching the last couple of weeks he along with Jackson are one of the few in the side that will throw them into contest after contest trying to win the ball. So instead of giving him the flick how about we use him and Jackson as standard bearers for what is required to win a spot in the 22.

Along with that lets just settle players into positions and leave them there rather than moving them around week to week and sometimes quarter to quarter. It didn't work with TW and it's not going to work with Hardwick either. This year we've seen Deledio play midfield/forward/back same with Martin. We've had Grigg/Ellis/Conca playing run with roles one week and then running as link up players the next. Last couple of weeks we've seen Morris play up forward and down back. Then there is the likes of Griffiths and Vickery who are one minute played as KPF then asked to be around the ground rucks.

Lets just decide what roles we want certain players to perform and leave them there. Take a look at the best sides in the competition. They don't chop and change roles from week to week or quarter to quarter. What they do is play their roles each and every week. They know every time they go out to play what is expected of them. Their taggers are taggers, their midfielders are midfielders, their backs play back and their forwards play forward. In doing that they become predictable to each other, they learn each others tendencies and what each other are likely to do in certain situations while our players more often than not seem to have no idea what is going on.

With that in mind how about for the rest of the season we go with:
KPD: Chaplin Rance Astbury Grimes
Medium/Small Defenders: Petterd Vlastuin* Dea Batchelor Houli Morris Helbig
KPF: Riewoldt Griffiths Vickery Elton
Medium/Smal Forwards: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* S.Edwards Knights Lennon McDonough O'Hanlon Lloyd Gordon Arnot
Midfielders: Deledio* Martin* Cotchin* Jackson Thomas Ellis Conca Vlastuin* Miles Grigg
Rucks: Maric Hampson

That's a group of 34 players that we use as the foundation of the side moving forward. Those that aren't named are either ones with a line put through them or are kids that aren't ready to play at this level. Some of these guys may not be here as part of what we decide to do with the playing list, but by playing them we may be able to boost their currency at the trade table, while there are others that we can say well we've had a good look at them and they just aren't up to it. Either way you play the players in the positions that they are grouped into and get the side settled and know what is required from them moving forward.

Great insight "RT", well thought out and I'd be happy if we went along with that.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

if only i could believe thats what they are doing ,, knowing our luck we win the last few games avoid the wooden spoon and fyfe walks out on freo and goes to saints or the giants ,,,, maybe we need andy collins back could be the secret weapon mk 2

Both Andy Collins's old be nice . One to coach and the other to kick awesome crumbing goals

 

[guruisatiger]

Both Andy Collins's old be nice . One to coach and the other to kick awesome crumbing goals

ill get the beach towells you get the massage oil