Cam's a weird one because as one of our better field kicks he *should* be more damaging offensively than he is in terms of providing goal assists. I put his lack of output in that area mainly down to a lack of vision and creativity, although I suspect it's also partially a mindset thing (he's not willing to back himself to hit the riskier targets). 0.36 goal assists per game over his career is pretty underwhelming (even when you take in to account the fact that he spent a fair number of games in defense).
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Cam's a weird one because as one of our better field kicks he *should* be more damaging offensively than he is in terms of providing goal assists. I put his lack of output in that area mainly down to a lack of vision and creativity, although I suspect it's also partially a mindset thing (he's not willing to back himself to hit the riskier targets). 0.36 goal assists per game over his career is pretty underwhelming (even when you take in to account the fact that he spent a fair number of games in defense).
imo, The last decade has produced little of merit. Not style or result. Occasional games that might be worth replaying but like the Hawkins kick after the siren, it only reminds me of being beatin by Haw in the PF in 2013 where we were beaten when it counted.
40.. so you had a chance to see some exciting Blight years but nothing before that. Blight football probably was influential in the way you look at footy . Great era. At least it produced some exciting footy.
IF... we go another 30-40 years before our next flag ... You will see plenty of hollow wins and plenty of enjoyable experiences...while others like me probably will never really enjoy the game again. I do envy you.
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This is true, I think another issue is we lack goal kicking mids, it used to be Danger but his ability to hit the scoreboard has lacked over the past 12 months. Compare that to the Bont, Petracca, Boak, Dusty, Zorko and it's an area that we have a weakness, this is amplified when we lack quality small forwards too.
Gazzathegoat
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- Oct 28, 2020
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Way too much doom and gloom on here and in the media right now.
Let's be realistic, we finished 4th and were a kick after the siren away from finishing 1st (Thank god we didn't!)
Look at the teams playing in the Grand Final. During the regular season, we beat Bulldogs after the siren and we lost to Melbourne after the siren.
Our team peaked around the midway point of the season. We had some terrific wins and showed glimpses of being a genuine premiership threat at various stages. Unfortunately, injuries took control and we weren't able to rest key players like we would have planned for. Even Chris Scott admitted they were disappointed when they scrapped the pre-finals bye. We limped into finals and were never a genuine chance.
Melbourne had virtually no injuries to any of their key players (Oliver, Petracca, Gawn, May, Lever, etc). It has always been their Premiership to lose. They have no weaknesses, most of their list are in the prime of their careers, no injuries, and a rock-solid gameplan. They also had an extended off-season and are clearly cherry ripe. I can't quite wrap my head around bulldogs but kudos to them.
Compare that to Geelong in the off-season / during the season:
- Our forward line was decimated and barely trained/played together until round 5 (Pre-season injuries to Cameron, Rohan, Dahlhaus, Miers, Dangerfield, Rata)
- Injuries during the season to 3 of our top 5 players (Dangerfield, Duncan, Cameron) - all missed significant chunks of the season. Can also throw O'Connor in the mix who was one of our best players early in the season and then never returned to form.
- We lost our most important player pre-finals in Tom Stewart.
- We also lost our most defensive mid (best tackle/pressure player) in Parfitt (as well as O'Connor).
- Delayed pre-season because we played in the Grand Final
To win a Grand Final, being the best team isn't enough. You need a lot of luck to go your way. Melbourne certainly had a lot of luck this season. They are also the best team. But are they 80 points better than us? No.
Add a fully fit Parfitt, Stewart, and O'Connor into our team and we are already more competitive.
Give our forward line a full pre-season to gel together and that will do a world of good. Our forward-line entries were absolutely woeful!
People will write us off again. So they should! We are old. We are slow. YET WE STILL FINISHED 4th DESPITE ALL OUR ISSUES! Chris Scott will tweak the gameplan, freshen up our list and we will go again.
We gave up 2 first-round draft picks for Jeremy Cameron. There is no chance we are giving up on next season! Have faith you old stress heads.
GO CATS!!
Let's be realistic, we finished 4th and were a kick after the siren away from finishing 1st (Thank god we didn't!)
Look at the teams playing in the Grand Final. During the regular season, we beat Bulldogs after the siren and we lost to Melbourne after the siren.
Our team peaked around the midway point of the season. We had some terrific wins and showed glimpses of being a genuine premiership threat at various stages. Unfortunately, injuries took control and we weren't able to rest key players like we would have planned for. Even Chris Scott admitted they were disappointed when they scrapped the pre-finals bye. We limped into finals and were never a genuine chance.
Melbourne had virtually no injuries to any of their key players (Oliver, Petracca, Gawn, May, Lever, etc). It has always been their Premiership to lose. They have no weaknesses, most of their list are in the prime of their careers, no injuries, and a rock-solid gameplan. They also had an extended off-season and are clearly cherry ripe. I can't quite wrap my head around bulldogs but kudos to them.
Compare that to Geelong in the off-season / during the season:
- Our forward line was decimated and barely trained/played together until round 5 (Pre-season injuries to Cameron, Rohan, Dahlhaus, Miers, Dangerfield, Rata)
- Injuries during the season to 3 of our top 5 players (Dangerfield, Duncan, Cameron) - all missed significant chunks of the season. Can also throw O'Connor in the mix who was one of our best players early in the season and then never returned to form.
- We lost our most important player pre-finals in Tom Stewart.
- We also lost our most defensive mid (best tackle/pressure player) in Parfitt (as well as O'Connor).
- Delayed pre-season because we played in the Grand Final
To win a Grand Final, being the best team isn't enough. You need a lot of luck to go your way. Melbourne certainly had a lot of luck this season. They are also the best team. But are they 80 points better than us? No.
Add a fully fit Parfitt, Stewart, and O'Connor into our team and we are already more competitive.
Give our forward line a full pre-season to gel together and that will do a world of good. Our forward-line entries were absolutely woeful!
People will write us off again. So they should! We are old. We are slow. YET WE STILL FINISHED 4th DESPITE ALL OUR ISSUES! Chris Scott will tweak the gameplan, freshen up our list and we will go again.
We gave up 2 first-round draft picks for Jeremy Cameron. There is no chance we are giving up on next season! Have faith you old stress heads.
GO CATS!!
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- Jun 21, 2008
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Maybe have a pre-season of good midfield work might be more appropriate then
The reality is that players who are 30 through 33 are not as good as players who are 26 through 29.
Biggest problem for Geel - ( and the short passing game is shocking ) is the midfield - the 3rd qtr Frid night - Oliver Petracca Viney - they just rip the ball out of the centre like a machine - dont care how big a names Sellwood and Danger are - they just seem to get beaten in their . Some of the other bad final losses - Swans prelim - even the NM loss - the Kangaroos just moved the ball at will - this problem with the midfield has been going on for years
You look at Footscray ( who i dont think are anywhere near as good as Melb ) however the Dogs have got Libba ( not interested whether he throws it now and again ) he has got sensational quick hands - and he is clever - he gets the ball - it is immediately distributed out to advantage to a Scrays player - and the Dogs are off and running - he is like a steam train driver shovelling in the coal
Geel have got nothing like that - also one thing i noticed was both Geel and Pt Ade - they both have got shocking handball - 2 metre handpasses to someone in a worse position - and they will do 4 or 5 of them in a chain - it is deadset shocking
Thats why you need a complete coaching personnel change - that Geel midfield has been a problem for years - and how many times its been exposed badly in finals
I prefer to rely on reality and evidence than faith thanks
gaz love x
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- Oct 6, 2019
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That's my point, those players were added within 8 years of 2007. And less of 2004. Can't rely on a freakish draft haul but the point is if you do get one it turns around quickly. You don't need 22 players on your list you look like they'll be guns in 5 years to turn a list around quickly. As it is Parfitt, Henry, Miers, Close, Sav, etc are all fairly established players who'll be around a while and Holmes, SDK, and the like look like they could get there. That's enough to get started. Building a premiership list is ALWAYS unlikely but when it does happen it can happen quickly, especially in the free agency era. Premiership teams often have an extensive young or at least <25 years old core.
Look at the way Sydney have bounced, they've done it twice since we last missed finals two years in a row. Collingwood never stay down for long and neither do West Coast.
Recruiting older players delayed the rebuild by a couple of years but that's it. Well run clubs don't stay down for long. There is a question mark over whether Geelong is still a well run club but the idea that because we've recruited some older players we have to be down in the dumps for the next 10 years just doesn't make sense.
- May 18, 2016
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We got belted in 2 finals. We are nowhere near it. Other teams can step up in finals, we just go backwards. There are major issues here. There is no sugar coating it. Our best players are pretty much done, and will slip further next year, and we don't have the youth to replenish.
Who gives a damn if we finished 4th. We played like a bottom 4 side in those 2 finals, and then beat a gws side missing 14 players due to injury or suspension. Having a couple of those players fit are not even going to come close to turning around an 80+ point hammering.
What can we do better. I think recruitment and development are two areas that the club has generally prided themselves on, but in recent times I believe have gone backwards a bit. There's no escaping the fact that the system burns us. We've finished near the top for that long that we just haven't had access to good young talent.
But having said that - having access to the draft is not necessarily a recipe for success either. We need to acknowledge our deeper strengths. First, recruitment. Wells is a genius at finding diamonds in the rough. Not so great at choosing the right one's toward the top of the list. I think he deserves more independence in his role. I feel as though Scott has cramped his style a bit lately? Second, we have general stability at the club at management and football dept levels which is a good thing and means that we can implement some things that might have a chance of ensuring some longer term success.
Take youth development. The draft system is a huge obstacle for us (given we never have any good picks). But also, we get players come in at the age of 18-19. Not only does it take them time to develop physically. It also takes them time to learn gameplan etc, and even just to fit in to life in Geelong particularly if they are from interstate. Could we not develop a uniquely Geelong style/brand which can be coached at all levels of the game from seniors to vfl to Falcons to under 14 etc. We may not have access to the best talent if they are nominating for the draft. But why don't we set up a kind of academy which, if it is good enough and respected enough, has the best development coaches etc, might just attract young talent especially from around regional Victoria. Offer scholarships for families to move and/or study in Geelong. The advantage would be that we would have tutelage of and inside knowledge of the strength of youth coming through, identify the players we're interested in from around the region at a younger age and get them learning from people associated with the club, draft predominantly from our under18 side who are schooled in the system we want them to play and who have trained together from a young age. We may even be able to attract the high draft picks back to the club via trades.
I just think we've got to look at things from outside the square a bit if we're going to see real success in the future. Trading in 26-33 year olds isn't the answer. It's a stopgap. It's kept us afloat in the sense of delaying our inevitable post-premiership era fall, but it doesn't instill longer term success. I just think that if the players you are drafting are ones that have already played together and have played in a system that they already know inside out, they can have immediate impact. Footy is a young mans game. Let's not just "play the kids", whoever they are, once they are drafted, but shape them into "Geelong players" before they even get drafted.
But having said that - having access to the draft is not necessarily a recipe for success either. We need to acknowledge our deeper strengths. First, recruitment. Wells is a genius at finding diamonds in the rough. Not so great at choosing the right one's toward the top of the list. I think he deserves more independence in his role. I feel as though Scott has cramped his style a bit lately? Second, we have general stability at the club at management and football dept levels which is a good thing and means that we can implement some things that might have a chance of ensuring some longer term success.
Take youth development. The draft system is a huge obstacle for us (given we never have any good picks). But also, we get players come in at the age of 18-19. Not only does it take them time to develop physically. It also takes them time to learn gameplan etc, and even just to fit in to life in Geelong particularly if they are from interstate. Could we not develop a uniquely Geelong style/brand which can be coached at all levels of the game from seniors to vfl to Falcons to under 14 etc. We may not have access to the best talent if they are nominating for the draft. But why don't we set up a kind of academy which, if it is good enough and respected enough, has the best development coaches etc, might just attract young talent especially from around regional Victoria. Offer scholarships for families to move and/or study in Geelong. The advantage would be that we would have tutelage of and inside knowledge of the strength of youth coming through, identify the players we're interested in from around the region at a younger age and get them learning from people associated with the club, draft predominantly from our under18 side who are schooled in the system we want them to play and who have trained together from a young age. We may even be able to attract the high draft picks back to the club via trades.
I just think we've got to look at things from outside the square a bit if we're going to see real success in the future. Trading in 26-33 year olds isn't the answer. It's a stopgap. It's kept us afloat in the sense of delaying our inevitable post-premiership era fall, but it doesn't instill longer term success. I just think that if the players you are drafting are ones that have already played together and have played in a system that they already know inside out, they can have immediate impact. Footy is a young mans game. Let's not just "play the kids", whoever they are, once they are drafted, but shape them into "Geelong players" before they even get drafted.
Good post and I agree with most of what you've covered.
That said, my only concern is the reference to C Scott tweaking the game plan. Ok in theory, but to a certain extent, the tweaks are limited by what personnel you have at your disposal. All well and good to say we'll try to move the ball quicker and take the game on by foot - but you need to have the players across most lines to do it.
It's for this reason that I think a couple of things need to happen:
-- Max Holmes permanently stationed in our starting line up next year and just fast track the kids development. He's got what we need - foot speed. And has some good size about him.
-- Retain Jordan Clark at all costs. He's got what we need - foot speed. Play him off half back and just tell him to take the game on. I couldn't give a toss if Scarlett likes him or not. Scarlett needs to pull his head in and accept that the kid needs to play and he needs to play in defence. As for all the talk about eating fast foot etc - I really don't care if Ronald McDonald or The Colonel are permanently located in Clark's passenger seats - as long as he plays the role of attacking dasher off half back and helps us take the game on - I just don't give a toss.
-- Isaac Smith became a really important player and showed us what that run and carry / link role looks like on a wing. Was a great pick up. Whilst Clark could potentially play off half back (see above), I'd also consider pushing him to a wing on the opposite side to Smith, and getting Menegola to a high half forward role ......... or a lengthy spell in the VFL. Smith and Clark could provide a very handy connection between half back and half forward and that alone could change the dynamic of our side very easily.
-- The Atkins role in the backline worries me. It seems he went from a lockdown type player, to a run and carry player .... I'm just not sure he's damaging enough to play that role. I reckon opposition coaches would be pretty happy with the ball in Atkins hands coming out of the backline. We probably had to change his role once Stewart was injured, but if it's not Clark, I think we need to find someone more effective at playing that role than Atkins. Maybe Steven's from our VFL side gets a bit of a look over pre season and in the practice matches? If not, and if the club is accepting that Clark is gone, I'd be looking for a "sleeper" from another club who is out of contract. We saw how horribly exposed we were when Stewart went down.
-- Gary Rohan. Well after he's cleaned up the brown stains running down his hamstrings from the finals series, I still think he's the bloke they look to throw back. No point expecting any different outcome if they just blindly play him as a forward - pretty sure we'll get the same result. He's got foot speed - a great run down tackler - and a great kick. What am I missing?
- Jun 21, 2008
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Would it be wrong to think that Gary could play an Andrew Mackie style game? That's how I picture it
Yes possibly, although Mackie always seemed to play a bit "taller". Rohan can compete well in the air and might well benefit from just running at the ball rather than making positional movement according to the forward line set up - much harder running patterns as a forward essentially. He might just be under a bit less pressure playing off half back and just go "see ball get ball" and apply manic pressure on opposition forwards.
Between Rohan / Stewart / Tuohy / Henry / Bews / and possibly Clark ..... you've got some defensive weapons with run and carry. Throw in Blicavs / Krueger / Henderson / SDK and you have options to play on the tall's. It's not all doom and gloom - Chris Scott has the weapons at his disposal, but he just needs to get a bit more of an attacking mindset and play blokes. I wouldn't be too worried if we went into Rd 1 next year with a backline of ...........
Bews - Blicavs - Henry
Stewart - De Koning - Rohan
- Feb 15, 2006
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Now I understand why Scott insists on game style and it all comes down to value-based leadership model we use at the club and one of the core goals
- May 18, 2016
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The pressure within the club must be building. They know there are a lot of angry supporters out there. They have printed this full page ad in the addy today. I’ve never seen them do anything like this.
Strange Cat
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11 times in 15 years and ****ing nothing to show for it …it’s all just words to keep membership numbers up …remember that we are entitled when we complain
**** the corporate campaigners
he would have to do some serious work on his defensive game. He gets pushed off the ball far too easily and would be easily outmarked by a stronger body. Fix that and he would have some merit as a back flanker
Halfback is the easiest position to fill in an AFL side. I would rather develop Jordan Clark or even Oscar bloody Brownless there than waste it on a 30yo.
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Absolutely agree.
Thank you Joel. Unfortunately if the dates on the letter were changed to last year, and this letter was after the Grand Final I am pretty sure you would say the same things. So, while we are all behind you and the team, just know that ''you can be absolutely certain we will be ready for what next year throws at us'' rings pretty hollow based on our finals performances - not over the last 6 or so years to be fair (Chris Scott would say that's not relevant) - but THE LAST MONTH - which is relevant. It is VERY relevant to us, and you need to know that there are many of us who would trade being there each year and living with a non-competitive finals team, to the approach of the Bulldogs who go down to regroup, but when they come up, by God they are ready to give their all at every contest for the whole game. I am sorry to be so blunt but that is what this club needs. I am afraid your letter does feel a little like spin to give a narrative for sponsors and supporters for fear of losing them. That mind set alone is condemning us to a kind of hell where we know we will make finals and then roll over because there are issues with the playing group (slow and not hard contested under heat), and the game plan (irrelevant to how the top teams play and now proven it does not work under the heat of a final to the point of the bleeding obvious). This feels like you are not addressing directly that we have a massive problem. Just as much as North who finished last. In fact, I reckon North may have at least put up a better fight against Port and Melbourne - sure been well beaten, but at least they would have given a hard contest for their fans.
- Feb 12, 2017
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Isaac Smith’s blunt admission over Geelong’s horror preliminary final loss to ‘white-hot’ Melbourne
‘Most embarrassing 45 mins of football I’ve played in’: Cats star’s raw admission over horror prelim
www.foxsports.com.au
Get used to it Smithy. Dominate the H&A and then completely fold in finals. "Most embarrassing 45 minutes of football that I’ve played in my career", got to respect his brutal honesty, and he's spot on. Must be looking around at everyone dropping their heads and just wondering what's wrong with them all.
Strange Cat
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He Probbly wished he went to melb and he would be right
Isaac Smith’s blunt admission over Geelong’s horror preliminary final loss to ‘white-hot’ Melbourne
‘Most embarrassing 45 mins of football I’ve played in’: Cats star’s raw admission over horror prelim
Get used to it Smithy. Dominate the H&A and then completely fold in finals. "Most embarrassing 45 minutes of football that I’ve played in my career", got to respect his brutal honesty, and he's spot on. Must be looking around at everyone dropping their heads and just wondering what's wrong with them all.
I wonder if some members have cancelled their memberships already ? Smacks of trying to plug a hole.
- May 18, 2016
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It just reeks of desperation and damage control. Please don’t abandon us.
Their actions on the field sure as hell didn’t show any fight or determination at all. But they want the fans to accept it and not be pissed off. Get stuffed.
This club has just become so weak now.
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