Tertiary and Continuing Which degrees are useless/useful?

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J_Moore said:
Easy with the bold, tiger. I know all this, and have acknowledged all this. But I don't think you know what my argument is.

My original argument - in fact, my only argument - is that employers (principally banks, government departments and consultancy firms) treating law degrees as an extra-prestigious generalist degree rather than a professional qualification leads to the situation you describe - a number of top achievers at high school doing the degree because it keeps their options open.

I understand why the students do it. But I think the whole situation locks a number of people out of the degree who would be quite capable lawyers, and who would love to practice. Instead, they either miss out on the degree, or end up studying 2nd-rate degrees which, as you point out, often don't really leave them with a whole lot of options on graduating.
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Power King said:
I did not do law. Anyway, if you look at the vast majority of courses with high TER requirements, yes the demand of the degree is overwhelming, however one must think about why that course is demanded so heavily in the first place. You cannot dismiss the degree's difficulty so simply. The demand is largely influenced by the attractiveness of the career offered at the end of the road, and the attractiveness has much to do with financial prospects (as well as so many other aspects, but why wouldn't an academic achiever want to be financially stable?). Why are financial prospects often good? Because in the real world, these careers require intelligent people (employers are going to want the best thinkers from those available), and so these people are going to be rewarded financially well because they are going to perform better at the required tasks (that are difficult in nature anyway) than people that are less intelligent than themselves (I realise this sounds elitist). It only makes sense to give places to those that are more likely to understand the material better. That's not to say that people that didn't get into the degree wouldn't be able to succeed, but when you're presented with limited places, then why wouldn't you choose the students that have a stronger guarantee of being able to understand the subject matter.
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I think you're proving JMoore's point there. Law as an aptitude test rather than a career.
 
AUSSIE GUN said:
Completing a uni course is just about getting a very basic knowledge and giving you the chance to get an interview with a company. I finished my Commerce degree last year and have been working a couple of days a week at an accounting partnership and I have learnt way more on the job. Plus a lot of the stuff you learn at uni isn't really transferable to the real work.

It's the qualifications you get after uni that seem to be important. So in my case completing the CPA will be more beneficial than my commerce degree.
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Interesting. I'm starting an IT degree this year, but I've been working in IT for the past 12 years. I'm doing it purely to fill in gaps in knowledge. It hasn't harmed me in the slightest not having the piece of paper previously.
 
C4[2]Yo`DooR said:
Medicine is a bitch of a course, but will land you a career (somewhere in Australia/GB) - in the medical field, in terms of internships, it all depends on WHERE they did their degree.

Australian National University (ANU), University of Melbourne and University of Sydney are the best places to have gained a Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery - and you will find that most Melbourne Metropolitan based Dr's/Interns have gained their degree from these universities.

:thumbsu:
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I don't think that you understand Medicine, as a degree or a career path.

How do you know that these are the best places to gain a medical degree?

As a medical student, I agree that the course is a bitch. However, the traditional 'prestigious' universities, are not better at producing the best performing graduates (ie the best junior - pre=specialisation) doctors.

I go to what is considered a prestigious university, but it's not necessarily producing the best graduates.

Although it is ranked about last, I think James Cook is the best course and produces the best clinicians.

Melbourne Uni has limited clinical exposure. Prestige is more concerned with research output, not quality of teaching and the type of student and doctor which graduates from there.

'Prestige' is more important in things like Law (there are more Australian law students than doctors in Australia) - no patient is going to care where you graduated from, as long as you treat them decently and competently.
 

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J_Moore said:
In terms of general intellectual skills, you won't get anything from law that you can't get from an arts degree. Employers who treat a law degree as some hoop to be jumped through, or as proof of intelligence, deserve a bullet.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor an arts graduate.
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Disagree entirely. Law is teaching me a lot more skills than my BA did. BA teaches you to show off your vocabulary and not much else. Law teaches you to be concise, use your time efficiently and teaches you things which are incredibly useful even in day-to-day life. And it's a much better indication of someone's intelligence than an Arts degree.

A hell of a lot of dead shits have a BA. They aren't exactly hard to get.

I can't think of any complete idiots i know with a law degree or who are currently studying one.
 
just completed a construction engineering/project management degree. can safely say im earning one of the highest grad salaries atm and further space to develop. in fact all forms of engineering (except petroleum and chemical in Western Australia) for graduates have massive intakes and good pay. the other two aren't too strong yet here and need some more time.

only downside of my industry is a recession, if they hit, im the first one to lose a job.
 
MAG87 said:
just completed a construction engineering/project management degree. can safely say im earning one of the highest grad salaries atm and further space to develop. in fact all forms of engineering (except petroleum and chemical in Western Australia) for graduates have massive intakes and good pay. the other two aren't too strong yet here and need some more time.

only downside of my industry is a recession, if they hit, im the first one to lose a job.
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I hope you do realise mate that earning 80-90k a year in Perth is the eqivilant of earning 50k in Sydney mate?
 
I'm entering my 2nd year of a journalism degree (Bachelor of Arts - Journalism) at Swinburne University. I do know the industry is quite bleak right now but I'm hopeful that it'll pick up again. However, I'm still very worried with my job prospects. I started thefinalsiren.com as part of my portfolio. Anyway, would it be wise to just finish the degree now that I only have 2 years left and then get into something else? Maybe Law? Would the degree be shortened after having already completed a journalism degree? Like that in the mean time I could do freelance work etc... I'm just really starting to worry about my future! I'm 20 years old, turning 21 this year.

EDIT: I also understand that I don't NEED to get a job as a journalist. With this qualification I could work in PR or in other communication roles etc...

Another point I want to mention is that I really do enjoy my course and the subjects! I find them really interesting.
 
Might want to ring up SEN as often as possible much like our very own (though haven't seen him of late) Ben Carb. Get in the know, then work your way up from there. Do some volunteer stuff (unpaid updates scores/whatever), get your foot in the door and away you go (like AndyM).*

*If you're interested in a radio type gig.
 
cartel said:
I don't think that you understand Medicine, as a degree or a career path.

How do you know that these are the best places to gain a medical degree?

As a medical student, I agree that the course is a bitch. However, the traditional 'prestigious' universities, are not better at producing the best performing graduates (ie the best junior - pre=specialisation) doctors.

I go to what is considered a prestigious university, but it's not necessarily producing the best graduates.

Although it is ranked about last, I think James Cook is the best course and produces the best clinicians.

Melbourne Uni has limited clinical exposure. Prestige is more concerned with research output, not quality of teaching and the type of student and doctor which graduates from there.

'Prestige' is more important in things like Law (there are more Australian law students than doctors in Australia) - no patient is going to care where you graduated from, as long as you treat them decently and competently.
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I'm doing my nursing degree atm.

IMO the more practical experience the better. But I will say I am still struggling to understand how someone who goes to a uni that does say 480 hours practical time over the three years can come out with the same degree as someone who does over 1500. I'm at Notre Dame, and they are renowned for their nursing degree and the amount of prac they give their students.
 
Just on the Law discussion - I know a number of people who are studying Law at uni, yet none of them actually want to be lawyers. They're just using it as a general degree because of the prestige involved in saying you've graduated Law and the doors that might open for them, rather than because they have an actual interest in becoming a lawyer. It really does seem like an Arts degree with more prestige and without the stigma of being "just an Arts student".
 
Damon_3388 said:
Just on the Law discussion - I know a number of people who are studying Law at uni, yet none of them actually want to be lawyers. They're just using it as a general degree because of the prestige involved in saying you've graduated Law and the doors that might open for them, rather than because they have an actual interest in becoming a lawyer. It really does seem like an Arts degree with more prestige and without the stigma of being "just an Arts student".
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Same here.

So many people I know enrolled in a Law Degree without no ounce of interest simply because they got high ATARs, it may come back to bite them if they struggle to enjoy the Degree.
 

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JasRulz63 said:
Is that even with their new MD course? I'm currently doing science, and that's where I want to end up after this course.
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In their old course, Melbourne ran a very traditional program, with more preclinical years and quite short rotations in their clinical years. I'm not sure if this has changed under the new course, a bit after my time of getting in.

I'd also apply to Deakin and Monash if you are serious about doing it. And graduate programs from outside Victoria like Wollongong and Flinders, presuming you are a Victorian.
 
Hey guys,

I'm looking for some advice on postgraduate studies. I've completed a BEng (Elec) (Hons.) / BCom (Acc) double after which I got a job at an engineering consultancy firm. During my first year there I completed a DipPM (so I would be assigned an assistant PM on a project organising a major sporting event this year) and am now considering enrolling in postgrad courses to keep pace with/ get ahead of the other graduates.

I know that I need experience first and foremost as I've only been in the industry just over a year, however I don't want to be overlooked in a few years time because Graduate X has the same experience + postgrad.

I've been recommended by multiple people to study an MBA (they all had) however I think it could be premature due to lack of experience in the industry or general management. I'm hesitant to enrol in a Master of Engineering as I don't want to be pigeon-holed in a technical role, I'd like to break into management early.

Hence I've been looking at courses in Construction Management, Finance and Law (JD), do you suggest any of these or any other courses I mightn't have considered.
 
I'm doing an MBA now, Hellbourne. Industry experience is helpful (and is often an entry prerequisite for the program) but from a content point of view it shouldn't hold you back that much. Areas such as HR and Org Behaviour call for a bit more common sense and this is where a real world knowledge of how things operate can be useful.

The other thing to say is it will take you time to complete and you'll be learning your job and applying the things you learn into your role as you go. Allowing for work and family commitments will see me stretch it over 3 1/2 years.
 
prankmonkey said:
do something to do with health and you'll be guaranteed a job somewhere. money might not be huge but the security and job prospects are second to none
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Well that's good to know :thumbsu:

Just started an Exercise/Sport Science degree. Could have gone into finance/commerce/business and all that but opted against it (mainly due to my love of sport). Not 100% sure at this stage whether it was the right move, but time will tell hey.
 
Flameboy said:
Just started an Exercise/Sport Science degree.
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I'm having the same problem choosing between the degree above or a Law/Commerce degree. Leaning towards a Law degree at the moment though, broad degree that can assist you in getting a job in most positions except in dentistry, medicine, etc.
 
Colin D'Cops said:
I'm having the same problem choosing between the degree above or a Law/Commerce degree. Leaning towards a Law degree at the moment though, broad degree that can assist you in getting a job in most positions except in dentistry, medicine, etc.
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Depends what you are interested in doing. Both could be enjoyable.

Probably more job prospects with the Law/Commerce but might not be as exciting as Sports science degree, working with an AFL team would be pretty cool for example.

There seems to be a few people that I go to uni with that do Commerce and Sports Recreration. Don't know if you could mix it with Law though.
 
What uni's offer a Law/SportsMgt combo though (in Vic)?
 
Yeah I won't be doing it by itself (SportsMgt), narrows your options substantially.
 
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