Analysis Why are we s**t?

[JayJ20]

There is crossover in what you are saying. Yes the issues are from building the wrong list profile. I have been saying that for five years.
You are not wrong with a lot of points.
You say I am going easy but I am looking at as a supporter that knows we are years away from fixing the issues we have created.
I admit I have the advantage of having some good AFL contacts from outside of Essendon that work in the recruiting / list management side of thing so I hear a lot more than the average punter.
I m not going easy. I am just seeing everything in front of me.
IMO we do not need to be e sifting through other peoples trash . That is why you do when you top up.
I can only say what I know about Hewitt. People can take that or leave it.
What you say about Dunkley is incorrect. He wanted to come . The Dogs refused to trade. They rejected our offer and did not even put in a counter offer. The just said No. Not dealing
You say waste of a year by trying to find some internal improvement despite the fact we need to improve the list balance.
Is it a waste?
We get a better idea of the current list . We are getting game time into Hobbs and others .

I think we should have already known what our current list will produce. I don't think we can consider free/cheap options as topping up (or sifting through other's trash) more so than creating a competitive list with spots up for grab.

We're currently in a position where we have zero midfield depth in the VFL to challenge underperforming senior players. It's currently killing our culture because there are no consequences for underperforming. I don't consider demoting Shiel to sub a real punishment. If we had say Dunstan or Greenwood (or even both) as depth, then players like McGrath, Shiel and even Caldwell would be notified that we have a decent replacement if they don't perform to the expected level. We could even put Parish on notice to lift his defensive game as we have something. All of our threats at the moment are empty threats because there's nothing else. It's why we see our mids continue to ignore defending because they know they'll play next week.

I know Dunkley wanted to come, but we weren't prepared to pay the price. I know it was overs and sure they shouldn't have done the trade, but you cannot credit our list management for anything when we don't have Dunkley and still have exactly the same issues. As far as I'm concerned, it's a nil-all draw with nothing to show for it. We didn't even recruit a cheap stopgap in his place. It's ridiculous to be having the same conversation every year.

 

[mike ross]

This. It's clear that we don't have the list to compete with the top teams, especially if the wrong players get hurt. We have too many players who at the moment don't seen to want to put in the effort required, as evidenced by how easily teams move the ball untouched from one end of the ground to the other. When we have the ball it's stagnant movement that rarely gets over halfway without a turnover. Getting rid of the coach isn't going to fix that, and it isn't possible to regenerate a list in 1-2 years. At least not for us anyway.

Patience is required, something our fan base in not known for.

The bit about patience is an unfair comment imo. The members and supporters have been waiting nearly two decades now for some success. And I don't mean a flag either. Just a good consistent side each week. I think everyone within and outside the club has the right to question this and be upset with the lack of progress.

 

[faible]

The members and supporters have been waiting nearly two decades now

Not Rutten's fault, nor his problem.

As much as it frustrates people, what happened before Rutten's tenure isn't really something you can, or should, use to demand he provides success now.

 

[yodellinhank]

A bloke that is 6kg heavier than Parish that does the same thing.

But is 6kg heavier.

 

[faible]

But is 6kg heavier.

Still doesn't run both ways though.

 

[mike ross]

Not Rutten's fault, nor his problem.

As much as it frustrates people, what happened before Rutten's tenure isn't really something you can, or should, use to demand he provides success now.

Never said he caused it. But by taking on the role it is his problem now. I'm sure even you can see that. We all support him and hopefully he will turn the club around. Time will tell. Something we've been saying about this club for a long time now.

 

[ant555]

I think we should have already known what our current list will produce. I don't think we can consider free/cheap options as topping up (or sifting through other's trash) more so than creating a competitive list with spots up for grab.

We're currently in a position where we have zero midfield depth in the VFL to challenge underperforming senior players. It's currently killing our culture because there are no consequences for underperforming. I don't consider demoting Shiel to sub a real punishment. If we had say Dunstan or Greenwood (or even both) as depth, then players like McGrath, Shiel and even Caldwell would be notified that we have a decent replacement if they don't perform to the expected level. We could even put Parish on notice to lift his defensive game as we have something. All of our threats at the moment are empty threats because there's nothing else. It's why we see our mids continue to ignore defending because they know they'll play next week.

I know Dunkley wanted to come, but we weren't prepared to pay the price. I know it was overs and sure they shouldn't have done the trade, but you cannot credit our list management for anything when we don't have Dunkley and still have exactly the same issues. As far as I'm concerned, it's a nil-all draw with nothing to show for it. We didn't even recruit a cheap stopgap in his place. It's ridiculous to be having the same conversation every year.

You are wrong with Dunkley. There was no price . They where flat out not trading him . I am glad we did not offer more than we did. It would mean we did not learn the lesson with the Shiel trade .
You can credit it with list management trying to fix an issue. We have no control over the other clubs.

I will also say that maybe having Dunstan and playing Shiel in the VFL does not change anything long term . The issue is still there. They know what the problem is . They made a decision at the end of 2020 with a new coach and football manger to start trying to make some changes.
You may not agree with them not taking a few fringe players but they know what they need .
You seem to be annoyed that this year is a write off as well and you wanted a few top ups to make us better now.
My opinion is that is a band aid . Better to be seeing what we are now and the real issues are way out in the open.

I will also say that midfield is not our biggest issue. It is an issue but the lack of pressure small and medium forwards is a bigger issue. Most of the defensive issues stem from a total lack of forward pressure.

 

[yodellinhank]

Still doesn't run both ways though.

Watching the final against footscray it was obvious we were going to fade. Our lack of size leads to bruise free footy for our opponents, we don't wear sides down. Then we concede a heap of red time goals and question "why does this always happen to us?"

 

[faible]

But by taking on the role it is his problem now.

Nope.

It's an impatient supporter problem.

Richmond actively spoke about this. Long-term lack of success meant the club kept making short-term decisions to remain somewhat competitive to appease the supporter base, instead of sucking it up and taking a long-term approach to fix what needed fixing and lay the foundations that needed to be laid no matter how much those impatient supporters cried about it.

Sound familiar?

 

[faible]

Watching the final against footscray it was obvious we were going to fade. Our lack of size leads to bruise free footy for our opponents, we don't wear sides down. Then we concede a heap of red time goals and question "why does this always happen to us?"

We also had a heap of young bodies playing in the rain.

I don't agree it was at all obvious we were going to fade, unless you have actual posts by yourself at the time, it's all hindsight heroism.

To half time we had 11 scoring shots to 9 yet were down by 3 points due to woeful conversion in the first quarter.

We then had 3 scoring shots to 3 in the 3rd and converted 0 of them in to goals whilst the Bulldogs nailed 3 of their 4.

Once the game was broken, in the do or die nature of finals, teams tend to fall apart.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Not Rutten's fault, nor his problem.

As much as it frustrates people, what happened before Rutten's tenure isn't really something you can, or should, use to demand he provides success now.

Great post.

 

[yodellinhank]

We also had a heap of young bodies playing in the rain.

I don't agree it was at all obvious we were going to fade, unless you have actual posts by yourself at the time, it's all hindsight heroism.

To half time we had 11 scoring shots to 9 yet were down by 3 points due to woeful conversion in the first quarter.

We then had 3 scoring shots to 3 in the 3rd and converted 0 of them in to goals whilst the Bulldogs nailed 3 of their 4.

Once the game was broken, in the do or die nature of finals, teams tend to fall apart.

I think you can find posts prior to 2021 in which an Essendon supporter has said we need bigger bodies in the midfield if you dig hard enough. But sure, hindsight heroism.

 

[faible]

I think you can find posts prior to 2021 in which an Essendon supporter has said we need bigger bodies in the midfield if you dig hard enough. But sure, hindsight heroism.

This.. is clearly not the same thing.

 

[yodellinhank]

This.. is clearly not the same thing.

Follow the conversation.

 

[faible]

Follow the conversation.

You specifically said it was obvious we were going to fade in the EF against the Dogs;

Watching the final against footscray it was obvious we were going to fade

Sounds to me like hindsight heroism when we were very competitive to half time to the point we should have been leading, blew the game in Q3 due to horrendous conversation, and as is common in finals once there's nothing to play for, let the margin blow out, all whilst playing some pretty young bodies.

 

[yodellinhank]

You specifically said it was obvious we were going to fade in the EF against the Dogs;



Sounds to me like hindsight heroism when we were very competitive to half time to the point we should have been leading, blew the game in Q3 due to horrendous conversation, and as is common in finals once there's nothing to play for, let the margin blow out, all whilst playing some pretty young bodies.

How is it hindsight heroism pointing out that we were too small through the middle that day when we've been screaming out about midfield size for years? Did you not think we were too small?

And what does it matter even if it is hindsight heroism, in the context of a discussion on whether or not Brodie would add size to the midfield? Would Brodie add size to the midfield?

 

[faible]

Would Brodie add size to the midfield?

Would he run both ways?

Is being a few cm taller from one player, that still doesn't run both ways, fixing much?

 

[ant555]

Watching the final against footscray it was obvious we were going to fade. Our lack of size leads to bruise free footy for our opponents, we don't wear sides down. Then we concede a heap of red time goals and question "why does this always happen to us?"

It was / is not just the midfield as far as size issues go.
Of course it keeps happening because we have had a poor recruiting policy and coaches who have not been involved enough in the process.

 

[Vander18]

Too many here wondering why we are shit this year. The more important question is why have we been shit for the best part of 20 years.

The organisational goal should be to set ourselves up as a perennially strong club that like a Sydney or Geelong. We are so far away from that goal it’s not funny.

 

[yodellinhank]

Would he run both ways?

Is being a few cm taller from one player, that still doesn't run both ways, fixing much?

And Kgs. The original question being would he give us anymore than Parish did Anzac day, and the answer being he would add size.

Defensive running isn't the sole problem with our midfield.

We currently only have Stringer and his little cameos as a big player who can knock a few around. It not only robs our forward line but there's also the possibility the extra work to be a mid is ruining him physically.

If we were bigger in the middle we could wear opposition sides down. Kick the red time goals. Play out the 4 quarters.

 

[ant555]

Too many here wondering why we are shit this year. The more important question is why have we been shit for the best part of 20 years.

The organisational goal should be to set ourselves up as a perennially strong club that like a Sydney or Geelong. We are so far away from that goal it’s not funny.

Well that is what the coach wants to do and is why Brasher did his own review. Problem is there is a starting line and it is a marathon.
It is likely to take a few presidents and board members.
Like I keep saying there are very few board or football department members that have been around for more than 3 years.
Do not disagree. There is a lot to change.

 

[faible]

And Kgs. The original question being would he give us anymore than Parish did Anzac day, and the answer being he would add size.

Defensive running isn't the sole problem with our midfield.

We currently only have Stringer and his little cameos as a big player who can knock a few around. It not only robs our forward line but there's also the possibility the extra work to be a mid is ruining him physically.

If we were bigger in the middle we could wear opposition sides down. Kick the red time goals. Play out the 4 quarters.

Oh ok, so being a couple of kgs heavier and taller from one player who still doesn't run both ways is going to fix our midfield. Got it.

Not an argument I'd run with personally.

 

[yodellinhank]

Oh ok, so being a couple of kgs heavier and taller from one player who still doesn't run both ways is going to fix our midfield. Got it.

Not an argument I'd run with personally.

Neither did I, so I guess that makes two of us.

 

[faible]

Neither did I, so I guess that makes two of us.

The problem with our midfield right now is defensive running, Richmond never had a big midfield but were a dominant team.

Adding Brodie, who is not a defensive runner, doesn't really fix it. Yet people are fixating on it as though flipping Parish for Brodie would solve everything.

 

[yodellinhank]

The problem with our midfield right now is defensive running, Richmond never had a big midfield but were a dominant team.

Adding Brodie, who is not a defensive runner, doesn't really fix it. Yet people are fixating on it as though flipping Parish for Brodie would solve everything.

It isn't "The" problem. And I don't think anyone has advocated flipping Parish for Brodie.