Why do countries with high union memberships have happy countries?

[nut]

Why do countries with high union memberships have higher living standards and better welfare standards than corporate run countries?

 

[Power Raid]

Why are countries with high union memberships have higher living standards and better welfare standards than corporate run countries?

I had a grandfather who was a heavy at the wharfs, working for the painters and dockers. His job was to punch out people who didn't strike.

Other guys wanted his well paid job and they would fight for it. He beat one guy so well, the guy died.

An uncle had the same job for the BLF and his job was to go around to families' homes and ask "are you crossing the picket tomorrow". If there was any uncertainty they would beat the worker, in front of their families, until they required hospitalisation. The whole time calling the victim a scab.

These were the same guys called in for the dirty work in Victoria as per the mob program "underbelly". They were called in as they could commit crimes and not be recognised, as they were from Adelaide.


I wonder if this is the type of living standards you refer to or whether you are confusing unionism with the importance of strong social systems.

 

[evolved2]

I feel its a case of correlation rather than causation.

Australia is a wealthy country, and those who would typically benefit from union membership elsewhere are among our highest earners with no representation.

Tradies are kings here.

 

[Chief]

I had a grandfather who was a heavy at the wharfs, working for the painters and dockers. His job was to punch out people who didn't strike.

So when was this? 50 years ago?

 

[Power Raid]

So when was this? 50 years ago?

I can't think of a time recently where unions have taken to violence in the streets or integrated their business models with outlaw organisations.........oh hang on, that's exactly how it is.

 

[nut]

I had a grandfather who was a heavy at the wharfs, working for the painters and dockers. His job was to punch out people who didn't strike.

Other guys wanted his well paid job and they would fight for it. He beat one guy so well, the guy died.

An uncle had the same job for the BLF and his job was to go around to families' homes and ask "are you crossing the picket tomorrow". If there was any uncertainty they would beat the worker, in front of their families, until they required hospitalisation. The whole time calling the victim a scab.

These were the same guys called in for the dirty work in Victoria as per the mob program "underbelly". They were called in as they could commit crimes and not be recognised, as they were from Adelaide.


I wonder if this is the type of living standards you refer to or whether you are confusing unionism with the importance of strong social systems.

And that’s your answer to OP?

Norway 50% union membership
Finland 60%
Denmark 67%

Strong unions, strong welfare, strong public healthcare and strong education = happyland.

Prove me wrong.

 

[nut]

I can't think of a time recently where unions have taken to violence in the streets or integrated their business models with outlaw organisations.........oh hang on, that's exactly how it is.

I can’t think of a time recently where the business sector lobbied the government to remove workers rights for the name of profits …. Oh hang on, that’s exactly how it is.

 

[evolved2]

nut is obsessed with Finland. Any question, topic, discussion will lead to Finland.

Prove me wrong. Lol.

 

[nut]

nut is obsessed with Finland. Any question, topic, discussion will lead to Finland.

Prove me wrong. Lol.

I thought it was Norway?

 

[Power Raid]

I can’t think of a time recently where the business sector lobbied the government to remove workers rights for the name of profits …. Oh hang on, that’s exactly how it is.

what your not understanding is people are people, no matter what organisation they join. Be it unions, government or big business and they are the same person whether they wear one guernsey or switch to another.

What is also well understood is organisations and people that aren't held to account, generally develop values and a culture that is unhealthy and they push beyond boundaries.

We need to celebrate the "grey man" the "grey organisation" who do wonderful things as the quiet achiever. Our worst unions, our worst companies and our worst governments should never be celebrated.

 

[Power Raid]

And that’s your answer to OP?

Norway 50% union membership
Finland 60%
Denmark 67%

Strong unions, strong welfare, strong public healthcare and strong education = happyland.

Prove me wrong.

I do believe they are great examples of nations on this planet but I think you dismiss Australia

I wouldn't trade my life for one in the nordic nations and you haven't either. I think that speaks volumes

 

[nut]

I do believe they are great examples of nations on this planet but I think you dismiss Australia

I wouldn't trade my life for one in the nordic nations and you haven't either. I think that speaks volumes

I don’t dismiss Australia…. I just see Australia as a country that has been rapped by multinationals helped by the corporate media… and we are continually moving towards US type politics…

 

[Schneebly11]

nut is obsessed with Finland. Any question, topic, discussion will lead to Finland.

Prove me wrong. Lol.

Why not? Put aside the colder weather and the lack of beaches and Scandinavian countries excel in terms of social welfare services, quality of life, harmony and happiness compared to the nations rapidly moving toward American style greed capitalism.

For the most part Scandinavians generally run their countries better than all others.

 

[Chief]

I can’t think of a time recently where the business sector lobbied the government to remove workers rights for the name of profits …. Oh hang on, that’s exactly how it is.

I can't think of a time when business endangered lives for a bit of money...

Oh hang on...

Over 100 children illegally employed by US slaughterhouse cleaning firm | Child labour | The Guardian

Labor department investigation finds Packers Sanitation Services Inc employed children between ages of 13 and 17 in eight states

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Big Papa Ted]

I had a grandfather who was a heavy at the wharfs, working for the painters and dockers. His job was to punch out people who didn't strike.

Other guys wanted his well paid job and they would fight for it. He beat one guy so well, the guy died.

An uncle had the same job for the BLF and his job was to go around to families' homes and ask "are you crossing the picket tomorrow". If there was any uncertainty they would beat the worker, in front of their families, until they required hospitalisation. The whole time calling the victim a scab.

These were the same guys called in for the dirty work in Victoria as per the mob program "underbelly". They were called in as they could commit crimes and not be recognised, as they were from Adelaide.


I wonder if this is the type of living standards you refer to or whether you are confusing unionism with the importance of strong social systems.

You're presented with a question about union membership being associated with high levels of happiness/prosperity, and your response is some weird anecdote from 50 years ago.

How do you even perceive this as discussing in good faith?

 

[Power Raid]

You're presented with a question about union membership being associated with high levels of happiness/prosperity, and your response is some weird anecdote from 50 years ago.

How do you even perceive this as discussing in good faith?

I have provided why it is still relevant today above

 

[Power Raid]

You're presented with a question about union membership being associated with high levels of happiness/prosperity, and your response is some weird anecdote from 50 years ago.

How do you even perceive this as discussing in good faith?

I’ll give you a live example in the maritime Union

An engineer in the Pilbara called whistleblower on Union corruption

Two weeks later four union workers made a false report that Engineer assaulted a fifth union worker

One of the four witnesses was the engineers friend and was ask “how can you do this to me”. His response was “I didn’t want to end up being the next target”


Lovely

 

[Big Papa Ted]

I’ll give you a live example in the maritime Union

An engineer in the Pilbara called whistleblower on Union corruption

Two weeks later four union workers made a false report that Engineer assaulted a fifth union worker

One of the four witnesses was the engineers friend and was ask “how can you do this to me”. His response was “I didn’t want to end up being the next target”


Lovely

Again, why are you using individual anecdotes to try discredit an argument which is shown to have significant societal benefits?

It's like taking a single example of a seatbelt choking someone, and trying to use that example to justify seatbelts being a bad idea.

Just awful

 

[Power Raid]

Why not? Put aside the colder weather and the lack of beaches and Scandinavian countries excel in terms of social welfare services, quality of life, harmony and happiness compared to the nations rapidly moving toward American style greed capitalism.

For the most part Scandinavians generally run their countries better than all others.

Places like Scandinavia are examples of where we should be aiming as a world:

• small populations participating in a bigger picture. This means the risk Finland will start are war is low but they participate in a larger global economy and EU economy. Imagine if the largest country in the world was 50m......would we have serious wars?
• the social welfare and systems are A class

they have their issues though

• violence against women is high in finland (twice that of the EU) Finland’s paradox of equality: professional excellence, domestic abuse Is Finland really a safe place for women?
• alcohol abuse and anti-depressant use is high. perhaps linked to violence?
• unemployment is persistently high. With long term unemployment circa 30% of the unemployed. Locking people out of participating in society is cruel. Finland: unemployment rate 2022 | Statista
• the welfare state and its legacy is high unemployment and a large national debt. Unwinding this will prove difficult
• ageing population is a result of the opportunity cost for women, meaning there is increasing amounts of people to support and less and less in the work force
• young people leave finland for a variety of reasons.....unemployment, burden of taxes

I would strongly support Australia breaking into four or five smaller nations, or increase the power of the states and follow Scandinavia. I would also support a 25% GST.

 

[Power Raid]

Again, why are you using individual anecdotes to try discredit an argument which is shown to have significant societal benefits?

It's like taking a single example of a seatbelt choking someone, and trying to use that example to justify seatbelts being a bad idea.

Just awful

because what makes nations great is social security systems paid for by the productivity of the people of the nation

Given labor has disbanded unions, it might suggest the net benefit of these organisations is overstated

 

[QuietB]

I had a grandfather who was a heavy at the wharfs, working for the painters and dockers. His job was to punch out people who didn't strike.

Other guys wanted his well paid job and they would fight for it. He beat one guy so well, the guy died.

An uncle had the same job for the BLF and his job was to go around to families' homes and ask "are you crossing the picket tomorrow". If there was any uncertainty they would beat the worker, in front of their families, until they required hospitalisation. The whole time calling the victim a scab.

These were the same guys called in for the dirty work in Victoria as per the mob program "underbelly". They were called in as they could commit crimes and not be recognised, as they were from Adelaide.


I wonder if this is the type of living standards you refer to or whether you are confusing unionism with the importance of strong social systems.

All that happened in a corporate run country

 

[QuietB]

what your not understanding is people are people, no matter what organisation they join. Be it unions, government or big business and they are the same person whether they wear one guernsey or switch to another.

What is also well understood is organisations and people that aren't held to account, generally develop values and a culture that is unhealthy and they push beyond boundaries.

We need to celebrate the "grey man" the "grey organisation" who do wonderful things as the quiet achiever. Our worst unions, our worst companies and our worst governments should never be celebrated.

In the "corporate run" countries nut is referring to it is 100% fact that income distribution heavily favours the wealthy - mostly thought increased distribution to corporate profits - and the divide between rich and poor is growing further every day.

It is a fact that labour costs are ever diminishing as either wages are suppressed or jobs are removed all together through offshoring and automation.

And then once we have removed almost all the low skilled jobs all together, reduced the wages of what remains to a pittance, made it impossible for the working class to afford housing because housing should be an commodity for the wealthy to play with to further increase their personal wealth and widen the inequality divide, then we Robodebt them.

Corporate countries like Australia are frankly disgusting places.

 

[Power Raid]

In the "corporate run" countries nut is referring to it is 100% fact that income distribution heavily favours the wealthy - mostly thought increased distribution to corporate profits - and the divide between rich and poor is growing further every day.

It is a fact that labour costs are ever diminishing as either wages are suppressed or jobs are removed all together through offshoring and automation.

And then once we have removed almost all the low skilled jobs all together, reduced the wages of what remains to a pittance, made it impossible for the working class to afford housing because housing should be an commodity for the wealthy to play with to further increase their personal wealth and widen the inequality divide, then we Robodebt them.

Corporate countries like Australia are frankly disgusting places.

With AI and automation we will need to become a socialist state

And socialism is soon possible in terms of affordability because of AI and automation

The only debate is whether we will live to see it

 

[Power Raid]

All that happened in a corporate run country

No

It was a union controlled society

 

[QuietB]

With AI and automation we will need to become a socialist state

And socialism is soon possible in terms of affordability because of AI and automation

The only debate is whether we will live to see it

What is the point of humanity if our end game is to make humanity obsolete?