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Why do goal umpires wave flags?

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In an AFL game it's a little bit superfluous with the coverage that each game has got, but as someone who has goal umpired a few local matches, very very much a completely required element of the game
 

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kaiserchief13 said:
Just saw it and it occurred to me why do they wave flags after a goal or behind?
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Dunno if it’s still a done thing (I genuinely stopped paying attention a few seasons ago) but the goal umps used to keep score on a card in their pocket, then meet in the middle at the breaks to compare and confirm they have the right score. They’d then wave to the score keeper off the ground to say it’s all good.

I think these days the goal umps waving down the other end of the score is a bit redundant.
 
QuietB said:
No - not even in junior footy. There is a score keeper, usually time keeper as well at junior level who trumps the goal umpires.
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Are you sure? It has been 20 years since I umpired, but back then the goal umpires kept the official score - it was not unusual to see the scoreboard getting changed at the breaks to the official score, as per the goal umpires score cards, after the goal umpires conferred that their score cards matched, just like Back2Back2Back said.
 
QuietB said:
No - not even in junior footy. There is a score keeper, usually time keeper as well at junior level who trumps the goal umpires.
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They are in WA with my kids

Umps meet at the breaks and compare scores.
 
Tas_Dean said:
Are you sure? It has been 20 years since I umpired, but back then the goal umpires kept the official score - it was not unusual to see the scoreboard getting changed at the breaks to the official score, as per the goal umpires score cards, after the goal umpires conferred that their score cards matched, just like Back2Back2Back said.
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The Falcon Strike said:
They are in WA with my kids

Umps meet at the breaks and compare scores.
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This is what the Laws of the Game states;

12.7 RECORDING SCORES

A Controlling Body may appoint a person or persons to record the scores
of a Match independently from the goal Umpires. Where the goal Umpires cannot agree on the final score of a Match, the Controlling Body may take into account the scores recorded by the person(s) so appointed to determine the result of a Match.

I know in our local footy the rules are that the goal umpires keep score, they are meant to meet each quarter and compare as you have stated, but there is an official time keeper and scorer on the sides who overrides the goal umpires if there is a discrepancy/dispute. I have not seen a dispute yet but I am sure it has happened.
 
QuietB said:
This is what the Laws of the Game states;

12.7 RECORDING SCORES

A Controlling Body may appoint a person or persons to record the scores
of a Match independently from the goal Umpires. Where the goal Umpires cannot agree on the final score of a Match, the Controlling Body may take into account the scores recorded by the person(s) so appointed to determine the result of a Match.

I know in our local footy the rules are that the goal umpires keep score, they are meant to meet each quarter and compare as you have stated, but there is an official time keeper and scorer on the sides who overrides the goal umpires if there is a discrepancy/dispute. I have not seen a dispute yet but I am sure it has happened.
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I think the crucial work is "may"

It might happen at a higher age group than my kids - especially if there are finals - but the timekeeper sits 100m away with a big siren and is the time keeper for up to 4 games at a time. There is no specialist scorer per match. There may be a district person won wanders past each game maybe once or twice a month.

In saying that - Vic might be completely different to WA of course.
 
QuietB said:
No - not even in junior footy. There is a score keeper, usually time keeper as well at junior level who trumps the goal umpires.
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In every level of football I've played, which includes VFL, A Grade VAFA, SFL; the goal umpires are the official scorers, they trump the time keepers/scoreboard attendants.


Plenty of occasions at local football where the scorekeepers are wrong.


Goal umpires have to confirm their scores with each other at the end of each qtr then sign off on the official score after the game.


It's not cricket, the field umpires aren't communicating with the time keepers, they don't know what is going on sometimes with balls near the line, posters, rushed behinds etc. It's down to communicating with the goal umpires who are the official scorers.
 
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I'll take a photo of the back of the scorecard next time I see one. Like I said this is for junior footy and I doubt the volunteer parents are the final judge on the result of games if there is a dispute.

Edit with our local rules - see bolded for what happens when there is a dispute;

Team appointed Goal Umpires must be at least 16 years of age or, in the opinion of the Field Umpire, of sufficient age to be competent to perform the task.

Each Goal Umpire shall be equipped with a scorecard, two flags and a pen.
Each Goal Umpire shall be responsible for keeping score and the Goal Umpires shall

confer and verify scores at the end of each quarter.
At the completion of the match they must sign each other’s scorecard.

In the case of a disagreement on scores by the Goal Umpires the score recorded on the official Timekeepers’ card shall be regarded as correct.
 

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Jeremias said:
The goal umpires keep score so it would have been introduced as a way to communicate between the two.

That would have been prior to technology, so now it’d be more about tradition than anything else I would have thought.
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With the size of the grounds at some venues, it would be hard for a goal umpire at one end to know whether a behind had been rushed at the other end or whether the ball had been marked just inside the goal line. Because the goalies are the official scorers it's important that they know what has happened. Whilst the flag waving looks a bit old school, as with the most things, the simplest solution is usually the best solution.

And goal umpires have the official scores. The timekeeper keeps score as well but mainly to assist in case the goal umpires don't agree and the timekeeper can be a backup.
 
Back2Back2Back said:
Dunno if it’s still a done thing (I genuinely stopped paying attention a few seasons ago) but the goal umps used to keep score on a card in their pocket, then meet in the middle at the breaks to compare and confirm they have the right score. They’d then wave to the score keeper off the ground to say it’s all good.

I think these days the goal umps waving down the other end of the score is a bit redundant.
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They still do exactly this, or at least did at the ammos game I attended on the weekend. It makes sense that they wave them - just to confirm.
 
Tas_Dean said:
Are you sure? It has been 20 years since I umpired, but back then the goal umpires kept the official score - it was not unusual to see the scoreboard getting changed at the breaks to the official score, as per the goal umpires score cards, after the goal umpires conferred that their score cards matched, just like Back2Back2Back said.
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The umpires definitely keep score, and wave the flags at the scoreboard to confirm at the end of quarter time, etc.
 
kaiserchief13 said:
So the AFL goal umpires do it merely so the lower tier leagues also do it?
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No, they do it to signal to the other goal umpire, and to the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper will be in a box with a clear view to at least one set of goals. So even if the power goes out and the broadcast camera's are down, the scorekeeper doesn't need binoculars to see the score - 1 flag point. 2 flags goal. Crossed flags - last score gets removed and a new score (or even no score) will be signalled after.
 

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Tas_Dean said:
No, they do it to signal to the other goal umpire, and to the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper will be in a box with a clear view to at least one set of goals. So even if the power goes out and the broadcast camera's are down, the scorekeeper doesn't need binoculars to see the score - 1 flag point. 2 flags goal. Crossed flags - last score gets removed and a new score (or even no score) will be signalled after.
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When does the power go out or broadcast camera's go down?
 
kaiserchief13 said:
Just saw it and it occurred to me why do they wave flags after a goal or behind?
Click to expand...

Its a hangover from the days the goal umpires were the scorers and they used the flags to make sure the umpire at the other end of the ground recorded each correct score.

From there they would meet at every break in play and compare recorded scores to ensure that they both had correct records.

Its probably not needed these days but its part of the game's traditions, so I'm happy to keep that going
 
Jeremias said:
The goal umpires keep score so it would have been introduced as a way to communicate between the two.

That would have been prior to technology, so now it’d be more about tradition than anything else I would have thought.
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I believe it started in Hobart, as a way to make sure the signal could be seen when it was foggy. Goal umpires are the scorekeepers, and a long way apart. Its not really required any more at AFL level, but everywhere without the big screens probably still needs it.
 
kaiserchief13 said:
Just saw it and it occurred to me why do they wave flags after a goal or behind?
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BECAUSE WE LOVE IT , ITS TRADITION AND THEY ARE THE UNSUNG HEROES OF FOOTY!

WORTH MUCH MORE THAN BLOODY CAMERAS, AND CHELSEA IS A NICE LOOKING SHEILA TOO! AS ARE THE OTHER GIRLS, DON'T KNOW ABOUT RODAN BEING GOOD LOOKING BUT, HE DOES A BETTER JOB THAN THE FEILDIES DO THOUGH!. ,
 
JoondalupJ said:
BECAUSE WE LOVE IT , ITS TRADITION AND THEY ARE THE UNSUNG HEROES OF FOOTY!

WORTH MUCH MORE THAN BLOODY CAMERAS, AND CHELSEA IS A NICE LOOKING SHEILA TOO! AS ARE THE OTHER GIRLS, DON'T KNOW ABOUT RODAN BEING GOOD LOOKING BUT, HE DOES A BETTER JOB THAN THE FEILDIES DO THOUGH!. ,
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You are by far my favourite poster...
 

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