Strategy Why do we have poor starts?

[catman 71]

I am starting to get fed up with our constant poor starts, and how we can't play four-quarter football.

We are playing the worst team in the league today (and they must be the worst, if Melbourne beat them), and yet we let them kick five goals to nil in the first quarter. It also happened against GC.

This is two weeks now we have not sparked up until the final quarter.

I must prefer our start against Port Adelaide. We have the Power beat in the first quarter, and then toyed with them for the rest of the day.

I miss our 60+ point wins. The good old days, when we would smack teams like GC and GWS by over 100 points.

Now, we go missing. Jeremy Cameron kicks his highest tally, because we leave out Harry, and Lonergan can't beat a player faster than a turtle.

Also, we get beaten in our centre clearances in the first quarter too often. West is not able to beat the taller ruckman, and Vardy was subbed off, when he should have gone into the ruck, and win us some ball.

Too many passengers, and we don't want to flirt with form. Hawthorn smash teams, while we have games where we let a team outscore us in a quarter. We need percentage, and we won't get it letting teams off the hook.

This "rope-a-dope" gameplan we play works now, but it will blow up in our face one day, I fear.

Also, most games the opposition always scores the first goal of the game.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I am starting to get fed up with our constant poor starts, and how we can't play four-quarter football.

We are playing the worst team in the league today (and they must be the worst, if Melbourne beat them), and yet we let them kick five goals to nil in the first quarter. It also happened against GC.

This is two weeks now we have not sparked up until the final quarter.

I must prefer our start against Port Adelaide. We have the Power beat in the first quarter, and then toyed with them for the rest of the day.

I miss our 60+ point wins. The good old days, when we would smack teams like GC and GWS by over 100 points.

Now, we go missing. Jeremy Cameron kicks his highest tally, because we leave out Harry, and Lonergan can't beat a player faster than a turtle.

Also, we get beaten in our centre clearances in the first quarter too often. West is not able to beat the taller ruckman, and Vardy was subbed off, when he should have gone into the ruck, and win us some ball.

Too many passengers, and we don't want to flirt with form. Hawthorn smash teams, while we have games where we let a team outscore us in a quarter. We need percentage, and we won't get it letting teams off the hook.

This "rope-a-dope" gameplan we play works now, but it will blow up in our face one day, I fear.

Also, most games the opposition always scores the first goal of the game.

Why do we need percentage?

 

[Jmac2225]

At the start 2011 we were winning but only playing well enough to get over the line the majority of the time. When we dropped a couple games it was hinted we were going through a heavy training phase early/mid year.

We then exploded and smashed Melbourne and GC and went on to win the premiership.

Similiarly last year our form was very similar to what it is now at the same stage of the year but then in the latter half of the year came out and blew Hawthorn and Essendon out of the water early in games and accounted for Sydney comfortabley on the eve of finals. Freo caught us off guard in tge EF completely dismantling our game plan but I expect we will be prepared to combat it next time around.

Anyway basically the way I read it is our form is not that odd when you look at the past couple years. Whether its the training load or whatever factors/reasons you can come up with I'd just stress less sit back and enjoy the ride. 07, 09, 11, 13

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Why do we need percentage?

Good question, Fred. I second this question. For the umpteenth year in a row, percentage looks like it will make no practical difference to us come September. There are five teams in contention for top four spots at this stage of the season (everyone else will practically have to go the rest of the season with two losses or less to even be an outside chance of catching us and none of the remaining teams look remotely capable of doing that).

Three of those five teams (including us) are from Victoria. So, for example, if the top three is Hawthorn, Essendon and us (in any order) it makes no real difference to us who we play in week 1, since it's a qualifying final at the MCG either way and we'd be expecting/hoping to be playing the other two top four teams at the MCG later in September. The other two teams are from interstate, but have drawn this season, which means, unless we have a draw in our final 11 games, percentage will not be a factor in our ladder position, in relation to Sydney and Fremantle.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

At the start 2011 we were winning but only playing well enough to get over the line the majority of the time. When we dropped a couple games it was hinted we were going through a heavy training phase early/mid year.

We won four games by 10+ goals in the first half of 2011. We haven't done it once in 2013.

Similiarly last year our form was very similar to what it is now at the same stage of the year but then in the latter half of the year came out and blew Hawthorn and Essendon out of the water early in games and accounted for Sydney comfortabley on the eve of finals.

While it probably could be said that our form (as in 'processes' or whatever other word they want to use) is comparable, the difference is that we've kept banking the four points and put ourselves in the box seat to finish top 4/top 2 at the end of the season. We weren't top 4 at any stage last season and spent nearly a third of 2012 outside the top eight. That adds to the desperation each week, because the players are forced to treat every game as 'must win'. Chris Scott can say it as much as he likes in 2013, but when your 10-1, it's just too easy to relax, when you compare it to being 6-5.

It's why Round 8 against Collingwood should have been such a statement game for us. We had a wounded opponent, in danger of going 4-4 (and falling four games off the pace on the ladder) and their players were always going to throw the kitchen sink at us. If we could match their intensity and knock them off, it would have just about been our biggest win of the season, because it would have said a lot about our ruthlessness that year. Realistically, we could 'afford' to drop a game. And that's exactly what we did. Then Sydney came down to Melbourne the next week and smashed Collingwood at the same ground.

Freo caught us off guard in tge EF completely dismantling our game plan but I expect we will be prepared to combat it next time around.

They shouldn't have. They did pretty much the exact same thing to us in Round 1 (putting on the first five goals of the game).

 

[Vdubs]

We won four games by 10+ goals in the first half of 2011. We haven't done it once in 2013.




While it probably could be said that our form (as in 'processes' or whatever other word they want to use) is comparable, the difference is that we've kept banking the four points and put ourselves in the box seat to finish top 4/top 2 at the end of the season. We weren't top 4 at any stage last season and spent nearly a third of 2012 outside the top eight. That adds to the desperation each week, because the players are forced to treat every game as 'must win'. Chris Scott can say it as much as he likes in 2013, but when your 10-1, it's just too easy to relax, when you compare it to being 6-5.

It's why Round 8 against Collingwood should have been such a statement game for us. We had a wounded opponent, in danger of going 4-4 (and falling four games off the pace on the ladder) and their players were always going to throw the kitchen sink at us. If we could match their intensity and knock them off, it would have just about been our biggest win of the season, because it would have said a lot about our ruthlessness that year. Realistically, we could 'afford' to drop a game. And that's exactly what we did. Then Sydney came down to Melbourne the next week and smashed Collingwood at the same ground.



They shouldn't have. They did pretty much the exact same thing to us in Round 1 (putting on the first five goals of the game).

Disagree. Freo had a superb last month. I saw what they did to NM who'd been in great form, and was fully expecting them to catch us off guard. And think it'll go similarly in 3 weeks or so.
We are simply not awesome. Very good, but not awesome. I can handle that. Seems like many expect us to be awesome because we sit 10-1. We could easily have been 3 losses.
Can any team dominate for 4Q IN 2013? Footy is such a momentum game, unrealistic to expect and demand that we excel for a whole match. Specially when we are missing 8 of our best talent.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Disagree. Freo had a superb last month. I saw what they did to NM who'd been in great form, and was fully expecting them to catch us off guard. And think it'll go similarly in 3 weeks or so.

I'm not exactly sure how an AFL club's preparation goes to face their upcoming opponent, but I assume there would be a priority placed on the last time we played against them (which, at the time, was Round 1, 2012), when they pretty much did the same thing that GWS did to us today. After being notoriously slow starters (besides the game against us) for the first half of 2012, they'd also won five of their previous six first quarters (and going on to win all five of those games). It would have been in huge letters on the whiteboard in Geelong's changerooms that a good start was critical.

We are simply not awesome. Very good, but not awesome. I can handle that. Seems like many expect us to be awesome because we sit 10-1. We could easily have been 3 losses.
Can any team dominate for 4Q IN 2013? Footy is such a momentum game, unrealistic to expect and demand that we excel for a whole match. Specially when we are missing 8 of our best talent.

You don't need to dominate for four quarters, but you do need to be able to hold the fort when the opponent has got the run. Letting a team kick 4+ goals in a row should be unacceptable, but it happens far too often to us this year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I am starting to get fed up with our constant poor starts, and how we can't play four-quarter football.

We are playing the worst team in the league today (and they must be the worst, if Melbourne beat them), and yet we let them kick five goals to nil in the first quarter. It also happened against GC.

This is two weeks now we have not sparked up until the final quarter.

I must prefer our start against Port Adelaide. We have the Power beat in the first quarter, and then toyed with them for the rest of the day.

I miss our 60+ point wins. The good old days, when we would smack teams like GC and GWS by over 100 points.

Now, we go missing. Jeremy Cameron kicks his highest tally, because we leave out Harry, and Lonergan can't beat a player faster than a turtle.

Also, we get beaten in our centre clearances in the first quarter too often. West is not able to beat the taller ruckman, and Vardy was subbed off, when he should have gone into the ruck, and win us some ball.

Too many passengers, and we don't want to flirt with form. Hawthorn smash teams, while we have games where we let a team outscore us in a quarter. We need percentage, and we won't get it letting teams off the hook.

This "rope-a-dope" gameplan we play works now, but it will blow up in our face one day, I fear.

Also, most games the opposition always scores the first goal of the game.

Easy, we aren't the same team as our glory days... We are supposed to be in transition, even I forget this at times.

 

[ZosoCat]

if memory serves me right we had the same issue in 2011 and 2012... obviously in 2011 we got it together. I would assume that we are getting the teama pumped for the end of the year now so measure will be put in place to get the starts a little faster.

 

[barmy44]

its remarkable we are even in the top 8 right now - go check where brisbane finished in their '11 and '13 equivalent ('05 and '07).

this team is in unchartered waters as far as keeping up their winning ways. we should be a bottom team due to equalisation.

simply - we might not win the flag this year - and its ok if we dont.

we should all be proud, and amazed at what this team keeps giving us. if we can go 10-1 while turning over our list, in our 6th season after a minor premiership and the flag, things are in good shape.

two things will happen... we will keep 'doing enough', and make it to the finals in a likely top 4 spot. we will get punished by the good teams, and have a disappointing (no matter what an achievement it is) end.

i think defensively, we arent a premiership team this year.

or - we will turn it the f*** on in the later rounds, and go mighty close.

if any team can do it, its this one.

just enjoy it! 10-1, and playing average footy! what a team.

 

[Duskfire]

We aren't the team we used to be, so we need to stop comparing ourselves to 2011 or previous. Bunch of new players, senior players aging, etc etc. We have typically slow starts because alot of the players simply dont have the energy to play at intensive football for long periods of time. Whether its due to old age or not enough experience in games, alot of our players fall into one of those two groups. I think we tend to forget that players like Motlop and Christensen, who are along the more experienced of the youngsters, still have less then 50 games.

I also think players, especially the older ones, struggle for motivation when playing ordinary teams. There is no doubt that we play our best football when confronted and pressured; all of our best games would be against the likes of Hawthorn, Sydney, Essendon etc where we played decent throughout the day and emerged victorious against good opposition. Its no coincedence then that our worst games are against GWS, GC and Bulldogs.

Basically, the team is rebuilding while still playing good enough football to fight out a spot in the top 4. That is an amazing thing to behold and doesn't happen often.

Not that they shouldnt be criticised; I am not one of those supporters who is happy to accept what happened today, because really it was damn shit. But, I am also not surprised, because I sure as hell didn't expect us to have anywhere near as good a start to the year. And generally, the teams second halves of the season are better then their first.

 

[Seeds]

We had 8 starting 22 players out today. The 2007 team would of lost with that injury toll. We are the best team in the comp on talent by a long way. If we get 5 of those 8 back we will win this year by the flemington straight. Haven't been this confident for a long time. Watch and see.

 

[vealesy]

Its a long race, a game of football.

No need to sprint out of the blocks. We can charge to the line better than every other stayer.

We were always going to roll the lesser teams in the last.

The "switch" test will be freo. I imagine they wont be allowed as big a lead this time. If any.

We dictate the game style and its pace. Our scoring plays are so damaging when the opposition is a couple of steps out of position, its not worth getting worked up about a few loose goals getting by in the warmup quarter. These sides are not good enough to hold possession of the ball when the pressure is switched on.

Anyone expecting a ten goal win against these bottom clubs is not paying enough attention to our energy management. 2011 was the blueprint. 2012 was an arrogant loss, and many of us here were frothing at that point of the season, after absolutely punishing the eventual premiers.

We are the stayers of the competition. No need to panic if we are running a little off, we're in front and haven't even entered the final furlong.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Good question, Fred. I second this question. For the umpteenth year in a row, percentage looks like it will make no practical difference to us come September. There are five teams in contention for top four spots at this stage of the season (everyone else will practically have to go the rest of the season with two losses or less to even be an outside chance of catching us and none of the remaining teams look remotely capable of doing that).

Three of those five teams (including us) are from Victoria. So, for example, if the top three is Hawthorn, Essendon and us (in any order) it makes no real difference to us who we play in week 1, since it's a qualifying final at the MCG either way and we'd be expecting/hoping to be playing the other two top four teams at the MCG later in September. The other two teams are from interstate, but have drawn this season, which means, unless we have a draw in our final 11 games, percentage will not be a factor in our ladder position, in relation to Sydney and Fremantle.

Yes, though what I really had in mind is that
- we can't catch up to Hawthorn on percentage (a 30-40 goal difference) if we only win one more game than them, and
- we can't lose 2 more games than Essendon yet gain on them in percentage.

 

[FredLeDeux]

People who talk about "playing one quarter" should also note that we have won c. 2.5 quarters a game this season, more than anyone but Hawthorn and Sydney.
Which means that Hawthorn and Sydney are actually losing more quarters than us.
They're in real trouble if they don't fix that up.

 

[Senatorguesty]

I'm not exactly sure how an AFL club's preparation goes to face their upcoming opponent, but I assume there would be a priority placed on the last time we played against them (which, at the time, was Round 1, 2012), when they pretty much did the same thing that GWS did to us today. After being notoriously slow starters (besides the game against us) for the first half of 2012, they'd also won five of their previous six first quarters (and going on to win all five of those games). It would have been in huge letters on the whiteboard in Geelong's changerooms that a good start was critical.



You don't need to dominate for four quarters, but you do need to be able to hold the fort when the opponent has got the run. Letting a team kick 4+ goals in a row should be unacceptable, but it happens far too often to us this year.

Got this far, we aren't letting teams kick 4+ goals in a row every often, I remember in the first 7 games it only happened once (north) against very good sides.
Sure it's happened since but against sides we have gone on to beat by 9-10 goals.

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

Whatever they are doing isn't working

I think main reason is a poor ruck and our mids arnt quick I have watched all year our guys not reading the play, not chasing and no thirst for the contested ball


We will need to draft quick inside mids to compliment Johnson,Selwood & Christensen

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

We just lack pace early in games. What we don't lack is the ability to run quarters and games right out. We keep our heads and execute when pressured and tired. Opponents get tired and can't maintain it.

The challengers are coming out all guns blazing, full of run and intensity and just run themselves into the ground. They get a bit of a sniff and they go even harder then fall in a heap. The Cats keep their heads and just keep chugging along.

I'd be happy if we could just hold teams a bit better early on.

Having said that, we're a side really looking for the bye. I think Freo and Hawthorn in consecutive weeks will sort out where we finish come the end of the H&A. Win one and we'll finish top two, drop both and it becomes a bit more dicey.

Freo have a dream fixture in the back end of the season, I'd hate to be finishing 3rd and them second. Their two hardest games for the remainder of the season will be us at Kardinia and probably Richmond at the G.

 

[catempire]

1. Attitude.
2. Centre square setups and effectiveness.
3. Opposition being up and about.

 

[Catgirl]

I am starting to get fed up with our constant poor starts, and how we can't play four-quarter football.

Actually we can and have done so a few times this year already...including against last year's runners up and premiers.

Don't make absurd statements. We CAN and we do it when it matters, and there's no point in getting pissed off when players don't bend over backwards and risk injury to try and win against the worst teams in the comp.

I must prefer our start against Port Adelaide. We have the Power beat in the first quarter, and then toyed with them for the rest of the day.

I miss our 60+ point wins. The good old days, when we would smack teams like GC and GWS by over 100 points.

Fancy other team's improving! Holy crap you are taking our boys for granted.

Now, we go missing. Jeremy Cameron kicks his highest tally, because we leave out Harry, and Lonergan can't beat a player faster than a turtle.

Wow. That's disgusting. I'm not even going to grant this a proper reply.

West is not able to beat the taller ruckman

Funny time to choose to say this, seeing as West had the most hitouts on the ground yesterday.

Vardy was subbed off, when he should have gone into the ruck, and win us some ball.

You can make those decisions when
the board of a multiple premiership-winning team think you're good enough to be their head coach.

Too many passengers, and we don't want to flirt with form. Hawthorn smash teams, while we have games where we let a team outscore us in a quarter. We need percentage, and we won't get it letting teams off the hook.

Percentage is the least of our worries right now.

Also, most games the opposition always scores the first goal of the game.

Scores for Geelong in 2013
R1 First score, (behind)
R2 -
R3 First 3 scores, (3 behinds)
R4 First score, (behind)
R5 First score, (behind)
R6 First 3 scores (2 goals, behind)
R7 First score (goal)
R8 -
R9 First 3 scores (3 goals)
R10 First score (behind)
R11 -

That's 8 times out of 11 we have had the opportunity to kick the first goal, so it's not as if us being switched off is the reason for them kicking the first goal. It's because we're not kicking straight.

And after making that chart, I realised we kick the first 3 scores every 3 games...not superstitious or anything but that would mean first 3 goals for R15 vs Hawthorn! I will do anything...

 

[footscore]

let Hawthorn fly out of the blocks and wallop teams, actually, makes them look invincible until it's September time

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Got this far, we aren't letting teams kick 4+ goals in a row every often, I remember in the first 7 games it only happened once (north) against very good sides.
Sure it's happened since but against sides we have gone on to beat by 9-10 goals.

That's true, but in the earlier rounds it just meant teams were kicking three in a row against us multiple times in the same game. Which is just as unacceptable.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

How come we are 10-1?

How come sides can be 30 points on us and get beat?
How come we are so lucky every week?
How come in 2011 pundits were saying we should have been 5-5 and not 10-0, on account we kept being so lucky?
How come after about round 15 in 2011 everything changed and we started pumping teams and never looked back?
How come we have slow starts, then it changes around almost immediately? Espesh in 2011. How come Motlop said in an interview it was all because of different training regimes? How come Chris Scott looked like he could have strangled Motlop for having a big mouth when asked the same question a week later?

How come, how come?

Next week we have:

How come some of the senior players look like they are just jogging around for the first half like they are buggered?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Do you think if we play hard enough in June and really pump a weak side, they will give us the premiership cup?

Wow. That would be neat.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I am starting to get fed up with our constant poor starts, and how we can't play four-quarter football.

We are playing the worst team in the league today (and they must be the worst, if Melbourne beat them), and yet we let them kick five goals to nil in the first quarter. It also happened against GC.

This is two weeks now we have not sparked up until the final quarter.

I must prefer our start against Port Adelaide. We have the Power beat in the first quarter, and then toyed with them for the rest of the day.

I miss our 60+ point wins. The good old days, when we would smack teams like GC and GWS by over 100 points.

Now, we go missing. Jeremy Cameron kicks his highest tally, because we leave out Harry, and Lonergan can't beat a player faster than a turtle.

Also, we get beaten in our centre clearances in the first quarter too often. West is not able to beat the taller ruckman, and Vardy was subbed off, when he should have gone into the ruck, and win us some ball.

Too many passengers, and we don't want to flirt with form. Hawthorn smash teams, while we have games where we let a team outscore us in a quarter. We need percentage, and we won't get it letting teams off the hook.

This "rope-a-dope" gameplan we play works now, but it will blow up in our face one day, I fear.

Also, most games the opposition always scores the first goal of the game.

its purely because of the way we are setting up this year, its got nothing to do with mental attitudes or applying ourselves

we are setting up strongly on the outside to pressure ball carriers and create turnovers at stoppages, early on when teams have fresh legs running around, they are able to break through it with hard running and linking up, but as the match goes on and teams begin to tire out a little, it becomes too much for them.

that to me is one of the biggest flaws or weaknesses of the way football is being played at the moment, sides run their players into the ground getting as many as they can in tight at the contests then peel it out in big waves, it isnt something they are ever able to manage over four quarters, players will tire out in the second half of games

we have a game style that doesnt tire out as matches progress, we position our players around the contests to apply constant pressure over the period of the game, so as soon as teams begin to tire and drop off that 5% intensity, of we go and put away 4-5 goals in rapid succession, sound familiar???? just about every game almost this has been the case at some point or another

we really need to twig a few things in order to become more competitive early on with the contested work in close, i wont feel comfortable relying on coming from behind like this come a grand final...