Religion Why is Antisemitism such a big deal but hate against other religions not so much?

[Malifice]

Read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa


The Romans, Christians, Muslims, the Atlantic slave trade.
How many centuries is that?


10 million African slaves just in the Trans-atlantic slave trade.
10 million

Also read:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ring-africa-wealth-billions-of-dollars-a-year

Aisha Dodwell, a campaigner for Global Justice Now, said: “There’s such a powerful narrative in western societies that Africa is poor and that it needs our help. This research shows that what African countries really need is for the rest of the world to stop systematically looting them. While the form of colonial plunder may have changed over time, its basic nature remains unchanged.”

Thanks for your 'whataboutism' but it's not even close.

If you want to talk about being enslaved and forced to work for some other guy (be it the Egyptians building the Pyramids, or the Nazis making bombs), the Hebrews and Jewish people can teach you a thing or two, and if you want to talk about lands or people being systematically looted, look no further than Israel (occupied by the Egyptians, Romans, Persians, Ottomans, various other Caliphates, British, Germans and the list goes on) to the extent that there were virtually no Jewish people left there for a millennia.

They mostly fled to Europe, where they were systemically persecuted, burnt to death, subject to the Spanish Inquisition, expelled, victims of Pogroms, massacred en masse for centuires, before a 'Final Solution' of enforced slavery and genocide on an industrial level was directed at them, seeing 6 million plus killed in a matter of a few years.

It's not even close.

 

[Number37]

Thanks for your 'whataboutism' but it's not even close.

If you want to talk about being enslaved and forced to work for some other guy (be it the Egyptians building the Pyramids, or the Nazis making bombs), the Hebrews and Jewish people can teach you a thing or two, and if you want to talk about lands or people being systematically looted, look no further than Israel (occupied by the Egyptians, Romans, Persians, Ottomans, various other Caliphates, British, Germans and the list goes on) to the extent that there were virtually no Jewish people left there for a millennia.

They mostly fled to Europe, where they were systemically persecuted, burnt to death, subject to the Spanish Inquisition, expelled, victims of Pogroms, massacred en masse for centuires, before a 'Final Solution' of enforced slavery and genocide on an industrial level was directed at them, seeing 6 million plus killed in a matter of a few years.

It's not even close.

Call it whatever you like, those are the facts.
If someone says the same thing about Jews as you have just said about African slaves there would be howls at moon of antisemitism.

Double is not a standard.

 

[Malifice]

Call it whatever you like, those are the facts.
If someone says the same thing about Jews as you have just said about African slaves there would be howls at moon of antisemitism.

Double is not a standard.

Plenty has been said about slavery, and in particular African slavery. Ditto European colonization of the Africa's.

But it's not on the same scale as what happened to Jewish people. We're talking thousands of years of targeted systemic persecution and deliberate expulsions, forced servitude and genocide on an industrial scale.

Tell me, does every single conspiracy in the world have its roots in 'the Africans are behind it'?

Heck, even the one conspiracy theory that does involved Africans (the White replacement conspiracy) blames the whole thing on the Jews.

 

[Number37]

Plenty has been said about slavery, and in particular African slavery. Ditto European colonization of the Africa's.

But it's not on the same scale as what happened to Jewish people. We're talking thousands of years of targeted systemic persecution and deliberate expulsions, forced servitude and genocide on an industrial scale.

Tell me, does every single conspiracy in the world have its roots in 'the Africans are behind it'?

Heck, even the one conspiracy theory that does involved Africans (the White replacement conspiracy) blames the whole thing on the Jews.

Are you serious?
There has to be conspiracy theories about Africans for what they have endured to measure up?
Really?
That is a bizarre argument.
But it perfectly encapsulates just how f'in ridiculous the whole antisemitism thing is.

Nobody else has suffered as much therefore it's OK to slaughter children.
Nobody else has suffered therefore it's OK to genocide, it's ok to ethnically cleanse, it's OK to murder aid workers, hospital workers, journalists, anybody.

But but but white replacement theory and people say the Jews control the world.
F me.
Seriously?

 

[Number37]

Plenty has been said about slavery, and in particular African slavery. Ditto European colonization of the Africa's.

But it's not on the same scale as what happened to Jewish people. We're talking thousands of years of targeted systemic persecution and deliberate expulsions, forced servitude and genocide on an industrial scale.

Tell me, does every single conspiracy in the world have its roots in 'the Africans are behind it'?

Heck, even the one conspiracy theory that does involved Africans (the White replacement conspiracy) blames the whole thing on the Jews.

Out of interest.
Do you think that the people that chained up Africans, moved them to the other side of world and forced them into harsh labour did so because they had such a high opinion of Africans?

 

[Malifice]

Out of interest.
Do you think that the people that chained up Africans, moved them to the other side of world and forced them into harsh labour did so because they had such a high opinion of Africans?

Considering most of those putting chains on those Africans were African themselves (who then sold them to Europeans at forts established on the West Coast of the African continent) I have no idea. You have to ask them.

 

[Malifice]

Are you serious?
There has to be conspiracy theories about Africans for what they have endured to measure up?

That's not what I said at all.

Nobody else has suffered as much therefore it's OK to slaughter children.
Nobody else has suffered therefore it's OK to genocide, it's ok to ethnically cleanse, it's OK to murder aid workers, hospital workers, journalists, anybody.

Nobody is saying that either. Or even inferring it.

Just because Israel is engaging in a deliberate program of genocide, doesnt make the systemic persecution of the Jewish people and antisemitism (pogroms, the inquisition, expulsions including from their own homeland, the Holocaust, Antisemitic conspiracy theories, Passion plays, mass killings, discrimination, enslavement etc) that has gone on for millennia nonexistent.

It means they should know better. That's it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It means that not all religions are the same. Some are more dangerous than others, as judged by the following (in no particular order):
1. Willingness of adherents to integrate within societies that hold different beliefs and values.
2. Acceptance of womens rights.
3. Acceptance of LGBTQ rights.
4. Valuing secularism.
5. Acceptance of science.
6. Promotion/opposition to fundamentalism.
7. Mechanism of reproduction (eg proselytizing).
8. Acceptance of the validity of opposition.
9. Penalties for religious disaffiliation.

I could argue many of these things about fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Jews. And fundamentalist Hindus and Buddhists for that matter.

I disagree with your idea about Hinduism and Buddhism.

That's okay, you can disagree.

I'd argue that hate against Christianity is much more socially acceptable than hate against Islam.

Christianity is much more powerful and influential in Australia than Islam is. Christianity has also committed more harm in Australia than Islam has, right back to how Indonesian fishers treated Aboriginal people vs how European settlers and missionaries did.

The "hate" Christianity receives in this country may have more cases overall due to all this, but I'd argue the depth of it is less than that towards Islam when it comes to the mistreatment of individuals professing the religion. And, I've never seen an Australian town outraged by the prospect of a church being established within it.

Do you have any response to my query about the bible apparently commanding Christians to be nice to Jews?

 

[Number37]

That's not what I said at all.



Nobody is saying that either. Or even inferring it.

Just because Israel is engaging in a deliberate program of genocide, doesnt make the systemic persecution of the Jewish people and antisemitism (pogroms, the inquisition, expulsions including from their own homeland, the Holocaust, Antisemitic conspiracy theories, Passion plays, mass killings, discrimination, enslavement etc) that has gone on for millennia nonexistent.

It means they should know better. That's it.

Come on Malifice.
You threatened anyone minimizing Jewish horrors...
Then proceeded to proffer an argument that does nothing but minimize the horrors of African people.

Which is exactly the road that we are being taken down by the Jewish lobby who have basically claimed that anything is, or can be, antisemitic.

Do you hate Africans because you minimize their horrors?
Of course not.

Oh but Jewish people have been subjected to bla bla bla, that's the distinction.
No it is not.

There is no distinction between the genocide of the Jewish people and the genocide of any other people.
There are no degrees of genocide.
There is just genocide.

I have no idea how you can justify the claim that 10 million Africans being enslaved isn't worse than anything that the Jewish people have endured.

It is a completely ridiculous proposition.

For some reason you feel the need to put up in lights what the Jewish people have endured as something extra special.
The only reason to engage in that kind of argument is to attempt to justify or excuse what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

There are no excuses for what Israel is doing.
There is no justification for what Israel is doing.

There is no antisemitism in questioning why some people want to shove down our throats that the Jewish horrors should be held as something extra special.
What purpose does it serve, other than to excuse and justify the horrors Israel has been inflicting on Palestinians for more than 75 years.

 

[Number37]

Considering most of those putting chains on those Africans were African themselves (who then sold them to Europeans at forts established on the West Coast of the African continent) I have no idea. You have to ask them.

The enslavement of 10 million Africans isn't so bad because other Africans helped enslave them.
Holy moly.

You know that slavery is bad, right?

 

[Malifice]

The enslavement of 10 million Africans isn't so bad because other Africans helped enslave them.

I didnt say that.

I was making the point that 'Africans' (which is a weird non homogenous group in any event) were the ones that were overwhelmingly capturing and enslaving other Africans, to sell to 'Europeans' (another weird non homogenous group).

 

[Malifice]

Come on Malifice.
You threatened anyone minimizing Jewish horrors...

No, I did not. I said that whenever horrors are being committed by the State of Israel, it has no bearing on the reality of antisemitism and the fact the same horrors (and worse) have been routinely committed against Jewish people for millennia on the basis of that antisemitism.

 

[evolved2]

I could argue many of these things about fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Jews. And fundamentalist Hindus and Buddhists for that matter.

You could and I'd probably agree with you, but that's about as useful as saying both Essendon and Brisbane play good football at times.

That's okay, you can disagree.

Thankyou.

Christianity is much more powerful and influential in Australia than Islam is. Christianity has also committed more harm in Australia than Islam has, right back to how Indonesian fishers treated Aboriginal people vs how European settlers and missionaries did.

The fact that Christianity has committed more harm in Australia than Islam is purely down to weight of numbers.

On a global scale, a clearer picture can be made to the relative threat of each faith when you consider how each faith contributes to religious terrorism and their record on womens and LGBT rights.

I'm not defending Christianity btw.

The "hate" Christianity receives in this country may have more cases overall due to all this, but I'd argue the depth of it is less than that towards Islam when it comes to the mistreatment of individuals professing the religion. And, I've never seen an Australian town outraged by the prospect of a church being established within it.

Fair points. Muslim Australians should have the same rights and freedoms as Christian Australians. That includes the right to build mosques, and to be offended by artistic expression and reasonable antitheistic opposition.

Do you have any response to my query about the bible apparently commanding Christians to be nice to Jews?

I agree with you. In saying that, the bible is meaningless without interpretation. You can make a case for almost anything by interpreting it differently.

 

[JayJ20]

No, I did not. I said that whenever horrors are being committed by the State of Israel, it has no bearing on the reality of antisemitism and the fact the same horrors (and worse) have been routinely committed against Jewish people for millennia on the basis of that antisemitism.

The issue here is that antisemitism is deliberately left vague by Jewish lobbyists spreading Israeli propaganda to use as a tool of suppressing political opponents.

They use the term antisemitism to refer to three separate groups:
Followers of Judaism
Israelites as an ethnic group (as in the descendants of Jacob)
Israelis (a nationality)

All three can exist separate to each other. E.g. not all Israelites are Jewish by faith or Israeli by nationality so the separation needs to be distinct to understand the disingenuous nature of its modern usage by lobbyists.

Criticising the actions of a nation or disliking a country has no relevance to antisemitism because it's criticising the government or even the society or culture built in that nation. It should never be used in the context of nationality irrespective of whether or not it is the only Jewish state. The US was founded on Christianity and disliking Americans isn't discriminating against Christians. Someone disliking Saudi Arabia or Iran isn't Islamophobia. Likewise, someone disliking the Israeli state because of it's genocidal actions and the nature of how it was founded isn't antisemitism.

The conflation between historic oppression faced by Israelites and the dislike towards the oppressive and hateful Israeli regime is the crux of people's grievances with the usage of this term. It is used for censorship, libelling and a tool to oppress instead of genuine cases of discrimination by the Zionist lobby and media personnel.

 

[JayJ20]

The fact that Christianity has committed more harm in Australia than Islam is purely down to weight of numbers.

On a global scale, a clearer picture can be made to the relative threat of each faith when you consider how each faith contributes to religious terrorism and their record on womens and LGBT rights.

There were two groups of Muslims who dealt with the Aboriginal population in Australia. The Indonesians in the 1600s and the Afghan cameleers who came in the 1800s. Can you please advise how they treated the indigenous people in comparison to the British settlers? Nothing to do with "weight of numbers". Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in population and Islam didn't spread there through war. It was through honest and just Yemeni traders who they took a liking to.

Funny you talk about "religious terrorism" when the West directly contributed to the spread of what you call Islamic terrorism to dissolve the Islamic Caliphate. Hempher the British spy, the spread of Wahhabism and the ideology of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, the occupation of Makkah and Madinah until this day to form as the epicentre of the spread of extremist ideologies funded through western bought oil money, exporting Al-Qaeda from Saudi to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. The overwhelming majority or targets of these terrorists are Muslims.

Before Western interference, it was actually Muslim nations that were advancing in the field of Medicine, Sciences, Chemistry, linguistics etc while the Europeans were fighting war after war with each other. Women were allowed to study, work, own businesses and land over 1,400 years ago. I wonder who didn't allow women all of those things until the last 100 years?

It was in Muslim nations that Jewish people sought refuge and protection from Christian persecution and Islamic law has provisions to protect Jewish residents in an Islamic Caliphate.

So please don't even compare the history of christianity and what they did to our history. And even that, we will call out people within our communities that are problematic (e.g. Saudi Arabia and Iran).

 

[evolved2]

There were two groups of Muslims who dealt with the Aboriginal population in Australia. The Indonesians in the 1600s and the Afghan cameleers who came in the 1800s. Can you please advise how they treated the indigenous people in comparison to the British settlers? Nothing to do with "weight of numbers". Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in population and Islam didn't spread there through war. It was through honest and just Yemeni traders who they took a liking to.

Funny you talk about "religious terrorism" when the West directly contributed to the spread of what you call Islamic terrorism to dissolve the Islamic Caliphate. Hempher the British spy, the spread of Wahhabism and the ideology of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, the occupation of Makkah and Madinah until this day to form as the epicentre of the spread of extremist ideologies funded through western bought oil money, exporting Al-Qaeda from Saudi to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. The overwhelming majority or targets of these terrorists are Muslims.

Before Western interference, it was actually Muslim nations that were advancing in the field of Medicine, Sciences, Chemistry, linguistics etc while the Europeans were fighting war after war with each other. Women were allowed to study, work, own businesses and land over 1,400 years ago. I wonder who didn't allow women all of those things until the last 100 years?

It was in Muslim nations that Jewish people sought refuge and protection from Christian persecution and Islamic law has provisions to protect Jewish residents in an Islamic Caliphate.

So please don't even compare the history of christianity and what they did to our history. And even that, we will call out people within our communities that are problematic (e.g. Saudi Arabia and Iran).

Balinese Hindus are treated poorly by Islamic Indonesia.

Islam is synonymous with the violation of human rights. Christianity also, but to a lesser extent. If there is a lesser evil, it's Christianity and Judaism.

 

[evolved2]

LGBT rights, freedom of expression, womens rights.

How does Islam promote any of that JayJ20?

 

[JayJ20]

Balinese Hindus are treated poorly by Islamic Indonesia.

Islam is synonymous with the violation of human rights. Christianity also, but to a lesser extent. If there is a lesser evil, it's Christianity and Judaism.

I gave you clear examples and you deliberately ignored it so it is very clear what your agenda is.

You can ignore genocide of indigenous populations in the US, Australia, Canada, Latin America, African Americans, you can ignore the impact of western colonialism all over the world, you can ignore white supremacist movements in predominantly Christian nations, you can ignore centuries of continued persecution of even Jewish people in Christian lands, you can ignore the ongoing far right racist ideologies with predominantly Christian populations, you can ignore the continued persecution of Palestinian people by Zionists who have positioned themselves as representatives of the Jewish diaspora with the backing of Western governments to reach at some arbitrary conclusion based on the vibe? Quite literally ruined many countries including many Muslim countries and continue to do so.

You mention the Balinese Hindus, how did the Dutch treat the Indonesian people when they went on their colonial trip?
Yeah that's a you issue.

The only difference is that white people don't control and have influence over Islam compared to Christianity (the west) and Judaism (Ashkenazi/European). We know through the history of Western colonialism that white leaders love power.

Also, you're not an authority of humanity, nor is your moral scale and weight evidence-based.

 

[evolved2]

I gave you clear examples and you deliberately ignored it so it is very clear what your agenda is.

You did?

You can ignore genocide of indigenous populations in the US, Australia, Canada, Latin America, African Americans, you can ignore the impact of western colonialism all over the world, you can ignore white supremacist movements in predominantly Christian nations, you can ignore centuries of continued persecution of even Jewish people in Christian lands, you can ignore the ongoing far right racist ideologies with predominantly Christian populations, you can ignore the continued persecution of Palestinian people by Zionists who have positioned themselves as representatives of the Jewish diaspora with the backing of Western governments to reach at some arbitrary conclusion based on the vibe? Quite literally ruined many countries including many Muslim countries and continue to do so.

I don't feel the need to ignore any objective evidence.

You mention the Balinese Hindus, how did the Dutch treat the Indonesian people when they went on their colonial trip?
Yeah that's a you issue.

Red herring.

The only difference is that white people don't control and have influence over Islam compared to Christianity (the west) and Judaism (Ashkenazi/European).

I'm white, and I have no control over Christianity or your form of religious stupidity.

We know through the history of Western colonialism that white leaders love power.

As opposed to every other color of people that don't want power.

Also, you're not an authority of humanity, nor is your moral scale and weight evidence-based.

Religious nutters keep showcasing their stupidity.

 

[Total Power]

LGBT rights, freedom of expression, womens rights.

How does Islam promote any of that JayJ20?

Cause they don't and if you look at the PEW poll it's absolutely clear, they are still living in the old times.

Christian-European, Nazism, Communism and Japanese imperialism are widely taught and publicly condemned but it's considered a taboo to point out the fact Islam is also an another imperialist ideology. Nazism and Japanese imperialism were defeated and discouraged.

Does it have to do with the stereotype that it's a religion mostly professed by the 'victims'? Muslim is not an ethnicity and Muslims vary greatly in terms of looks. Muslims with blue eyes and blonde hair also exist.

Why does Islamic imperialism get a free-pass? I live in one such country ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years and you can still see what they have done here with the churches and people. When people talk about imperialism it's mostly about white people, it amuses me nonetheless.

Malifice i am interested in your thoughts on this.

 

[JayJ20]

You did?

I don't feel the need to ignore any objective evidence.

Red herring.

I'm white, and I have no control over Christianity or your form of religious stupidity.


As opposed to every other color of people that don't want power.

Religious nutters keep showcasing their stupidity.

You still have the same bullshit arguments you were on years ago which is why I don't engage with your stupidity.

Your people believe we're on a space rock floating to our doom having come here by complete random chance that is extremely minuscule in possibility by your own supposed calculations of probability and you want to talk about moral framework. You don't have a basis for your foundation. You have no objective evidence for even a single moral scale you judge with and you want to appoint yourself as the judge of morality? Can you even name the exact person that curated your moral framework and what evidence they used to curate it for every rule? Or perhaps you believe you are a free thinker (though you're just a product of your environment)? Or perhaps you think 8 billion people need to adopt your specific individual framework that you came up with without any evidence?

Your people believe there is no purpose to humanity's existence and you comment on human rights. Even though people could just declare themselves as sovereign citizens and do what they want through this logic. Please spare me the bullshit and you can jog on.

 

[JayJ20]

Oh and to no ones surprise, Total Power is here too. How predictable.

 

[Total Power]

Oh and to no ones surprise, Total Power is here too. How predictable.

I have been bashing Christians for years, if you missed that...

how dare i speak about Islam.

Keep your adhoms to yourself.

 

[JayJ20]

I have been bashing Christians for years, if you missed that...

how dare i speak about Islam.

Keep your adhoms to yourself.

I venture to the cesspool that is the SRP board a couple of times a year and you're always here spouting the same uneducated nonsense for years.

Anyway, this is my cue to leave this board again because I have better things to do.

 

[Total Power]

I venture to the cesspool that is the SRP board a couple of times a year and you're always here spouting the same uneducated nonsense for years.

Anyway, this is my cue to leave this board again because I have better things to do.

What an astonishingly stupid but predictable post (this is why i avoided replying to you in the first place, i know you well!!! you can't help yourself). Every post i read of yours, here, it's you playing the man. Instead of addressing the points i made (since you mentioned imperialism but forgot to mention how your 'religion of peace' spread. Unlike the Spaniards in Latin America or Dutch people in Asia their purpose was to spread Islam, not Arabism) you go straight for the man.

I have debated Christians for years, yet no one came across as arrogant and stupid like you have. Sign of frustration defending your cult from genuine criticism maybe? armed with the book, i don't blame you....you need to play the man, i get it. (you don't know arabic, you are stupid, you are a moron etc).

You're gonna leave you said, sure, don't let the door hit ya mate (although i doubt you can leave without abuse and having the last word again, to feel good about defending your cult), but thanks for noticing me. lol must have ruffled a feather or two.

See ya.