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Why Jason Cloke is a hack.

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Wiggins

Draftee
Apr 28, 2003
19
0
Other Teams
Collingwood
Question. Where do you play Jason Cloke?

He has too many weaknesses to settle in any position. Let me list them and explain his faults.

1. Kicking. He is a shocking kick. Certainly the worst kick at the club barring possibly McGough. Technically his kicking action is all wrong, which leads to errant kicks, particularly under pressure. He takes far too long to get boot to ball and it is not well worth the wait. 50% of his kicks are straight to the boundary, even when under no pressure; 30% are just hacked forward as far as he can kick it, even when he has options open to him; 25% are straight out clangers, hitting opposition players on the chest; and 5% hit a Collingwood jumper. Undebatably he is a terrible kick.

2. Running. He is a slug. The slowest player on our list (including Richo) Off the mark he is so slow, he makes the average runner look super quick. His lack of pace is such a handicap, it is playing russian roulette to put him on a forward in our defence. On the very few occasions where he has played on a man, this was exposed badly. His lack of pace really limits the positions he can play.

3. Ground skills. They are non existent. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen the ball spill to Cloke, I’ve then looked forward of the play to see what options are open to him, only to look back and see he is still coming to terms with picking up the ball. He is terrible under his knees, the worst at the club.

4. Height. Not that he can help it, but he is only 188cm. If he were 5 or 6cm’s taller his other faults would almost be bearable as at least he would then be a big man and a bigger aerial threat. As is he is not tall enough for key position.


Cloke fans will argue that he is tough, courageous, has football smarts and gives the team some grunt. It is true that he has given a bit of this and Malthouse has done well to maximise Cloke’s strengths while hiding his weaknesses. Malthouse has essentially done this by playing him as a loose man in defence. But opposition teams have realized this and the party is over. Interestingly he hardly set foot in the defence last week, seemingly pointing to the fact that Malthouse is now looking for a new position for him.

Before he ever played a game I simply could not see a position for him. Too short for key position, too slow for the back flanks, too unskilled for anywhere else. So where could he possibly play? Malthouse came up with the answer of loose man in defence and it worked. As loose man his lack of pace didn’t hurt him as he had no-one to worry about. He could run around the backline, get to contests to spoil and to force throw ins. He used his courage, toughness and football brain to full effect, while his weaknesses were well hidden. His kicking was shown up every now and then, but overall the average footy fan would not have been a fool to think that Cloke looked a likely prospect.

Unfortunately opposition teams did not remain dazed and finally woke up to Cloke. They started putting a forward on him and attacked through this forward. This not only stopped Cloke contributing as he did as a loose man, but it exposed him for his lack of pace and his inability to stop his man.

The days of Cloke playing loose in defence are over, which brings us back to the original question. Exactly where do you play him? Unless Malthouse pulls another rabbit out of the hat, the answer to that question has to be Williamstown.
 
Very harsh I think.

Will eventually turn into a very good player, in the mould of Glenn Archer, who realistically has always been relatively slow and a poor kick, and a fraction short. His defensive skills and kicking will improve over time. He is an extremely strong mark - you don't throw players on the scrapheap if they can take a contested mark.
 

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What crap.

Nothinh wrong with Clokey.. Courageous and hard at the ball.
He is only 19/20. Cut him some slack you tool.
He wears his heart on his sleeve. It's all you can ask for.
PASSION is all you can ask for.

Wiggins, you crap on with enough negative sh*t on Extreme Black 'N' White. Not hear also please.
 
Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN
What crap.

Nothinh wrong with Clokey.. Courageous and hard at the ball.
He is only 19/20. Cut him some slack you tool.
He wears his heart on his sleeve. It's all you can ask for.
PASSION is all you can ask for.

Wiggins, you crap on with enough negative sh*t on Extreme Black 'N' White. Not hear also please.

Would he get a game at Brisbane?:eek:
 
Nick the pie man you think it is crap?
You think there is nothing wrong with Clokey? Nothing?
You think PASSION is all you can ask for?
You say he is 19?

Firstly Cloke is 21,
secondly there is plenty wrong with Clokey, running and kicking for starters.
And if passion is all you need then we could all get a game, don't be ridiculous.

My comments were well measured and thought out and the question remains where do you play Cloke?
 
Who do u barrack for Wiggins? if its either Western Bulldogs or Carlton then id dare say people in glass houses should be careful to throw stones at others.

Any club in the AFL would have him. He may not slot straight into Brissy's defence, but hed be right into the other 14 clubs defence.
 
Entitled to your opinion, Wiggins....

However, I believe that he will play 100+ games at Collingwood.

Names like Mick Gayfer, David Polkinghorne, Kevin Walsh spring to mind as players with "very" limited ability who played in premiership sides.

Like them, he has enormous courage, will to win, respect from teammates and they all improved over time.


This season he has struggled with a ankle he rolled against Carlton. His mobility and spring (huge part of his game) will improve over the coming weeks.
 
I'm a Collingwood fan perty, i wouldn't care otherwise. But what position do you play him?

Loose in defence?
On a man in defence?
or as a forward?

Teams no longer allow him loose in defence.

On a man in defence 2 weeks ago, his pace was badly exposed by Jonathan Brown. Brown is only a plodder but he looked as quick as Tarrant when opposed to Cloke.

Last week he played as a forward, he kicked a goal from a free kick and a 50 metre penalty and that is it. He is no forward.

So where do you play him?

I like the boys attitude to football, but he doesnt have the tools (pace, skill) to make it. This is being exposed more and more every week. We'll see how he goes against the swans (and where he will play).
 

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I think Cloke has fair ground skills, is a fair contested mark and is very dirty. Hs lack of pace and poor kicking can be a liaility, but I think his ability to win one-on-ones is excellent. I don't think he's a hack at all, and has a good future.

He doesn't play loose man every week, but when Presti and Wakelin are in he is third in line for a KP in defense. Malthouse is big on flexibility (Prsti pops up at CHF sometimes-remember ANZAC day 2002?) so we can expect to see Cloke in key positions forward and back, as well as loose man or even in the square as a shock troop for the odd ball up.
 
ha ha

This is the best read in a long time. Cloke is so slow he made Brown look fast. Funny thing is Clokey took a few marks on the lead against the Dons. Fact is that if delivered properly most forwards will beat there man to the ball as they set the play.

For gods sake even Whitnall gets the break on his man, it is all down to the timing of the lead and the delivery, if they are good no back man will stop a forward.

Kicking is crap, but so what the problem is we have another 4 guys in the team who have the same problem, Licca, McGough, Presti and Johnson. To many, one can be carried 5 is to many.
 
Wiggins, why the hell do you have to air your dirty laundry from Hotrod's board over here??

I am all too aware of all your opinions on Cloke and I agree with pretty much all of the shortcomings you mentioned to an extent, as do most people.

For some reason, you cannot see the fact that Cloke saves us goals week in week out. He is without peer (ie. the best in the competition) when it comes to reading the ball into defence and providing a contest. He almost never fails to get a fist on it and save an almost certain mark.

As for last week, Malthouse was trying different setups and strategies. If he were 100% serious, he'd have been plugging the space in front of Cupido and Lloyd with Cloke or McKee. He didn't and tried to beat them man on man.

Oh, and in the first half, despite a poor miss for goal and a couple of poor kicks, he was our best forward!

There are others in our side who are a much greater liability at the minute, namely Glenn Freeborn and Leon Davis, yet I don't see you giving critisism towards those players!

As for McGough, his shortcomings (ie. his kicking) are more than adequately compensated for by his ability to win the ball inside and his hands are equal to anybody in the comp. A fine young footballer.

Here is not the place to rehash the vendetta you have against these young lads!

John the Pie
 
figjam

Firstly, the hodrod board is totally irrelevant to the discussion. Cloke's position in the team (ie position on the ground) is a very relevant point for discussion at the moment.

Your claim that he is the best player in the competition when it comes to reading the ball into defence and providing a contest, is a huge call. If this were true, why did Malthouse play him forward? For the sake of trying different setups and strategies? No. Malthouse played him forward because he knew he couldn't get him loose in defence against Sheedy. And this is becoming a weekly concern (and this is the thrust of my original post).

As for him being our best forward last week, if he is our best forward, i for one won't be expecting the team to kick many goals. You certainly wouldn't describe him as a dangerous forward.

McGough is a player who overall i dont mind. He has shortcomings which will plague him for his entire career and will frustrate at times, but he can provide some positives to the team, such as winning the ball in the centre.

As for Cloke, I don't know where you play him.
 

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Originally posted by Murray
I ask just one question.
Is he continually improving? If the answer is yes (as I think it is) then what more can we ask of him?

There is little that can be done to make a person run faster. A bit more, but not much, to kick the Sherrin well.
 
Originally posted by Wiggins
50% of his kicks are straight to the boundary, even when under no pressure; 30% are just hacked forward as far as he can kick it, even when he has options open to him; 25% are straight out clangers, hitting opposition players on the chest; and 5% hit a Collingwood jumper. Undebatably he is a terrible kick.
At least he gives 110%.
 
Can I just say that, regardless of Jason Cloke's age, this is his second year of football (which we are at the start of).

Secondly, I think that he is pretty good now, and he has a lot of improving in his career, he is still young.

Thirdly, players have bad games, including Nathan Buckley and Paul Licuria.

I will admit that I am a huge fan of Jason Cloke, and of Collingwood. But I think that the criticism that I have read in this topic, was a little unfair, although I do not begrudge anyone their opinion.

I just thought that I'd voice my own.
 
Hey guys if you dont want him, im sure my club would be more than happy to take him. Ive never heard so much dribble about a 2nd year player, you guys run amuk! I wonder if all this abuse was directed at him last year, was it?
 
Good call peruka.

I have 1 comment to make on Jason Cloke.

I have never, ever seen a first year player display the degree of courage to back into packs so frequently and effectively and ALSO exercise such play reading ability to leave his man and win a contest behind, beside or in front of his opponent continually in every game he played.

Yes he has short comings but FFS how many footballers walk into a side and continually read the play better than 10 year players on either team?

The answer BTW is not fu***n one. Not Wayne Carey, not Nathan Buckley, not James Hird, not Peter Daicos.
 

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Why Jason Cloke is a hack.

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