Roast Why Why Why?

[Tigerland]

Top 10 Pressure Acts for Saturday night (Tackles in brackets)

Nahas 30 (12)
Jackson 19 (11)
White 15 (7)
Gus 15 (7)
Martin 15 (5)
King 10 (6)
Morton 10 (4)
Riewoldt 10 (1)
Batchelor 9 (3)
Connors 9 (3)

_________________________

Surprising stats. Only the top 2 were mildy effective IMO. Nahas pressure was good.
I'd love to see a stat for 'players that stand around and watch when they could be involved in the play'
We'd score through the roof on that one.

 

[santa claws]

Didn't realise we had suddenly gone from last years 15th placed side that was still trying to find the right 22 to a contender for the 8 or heaven forbid the flag. Guys like Nahas White King and a few others are getting games right now because a) they are doing what is asked of them, b) we don't yet have replacements that are ready to come in and take their spots who are better skilled and able to compete at an AFL level better than what they currently can and c) the few players we do have that can do a better job in terms of competing at this level are either out of form or injured.

Sorry if thats not good enough for you but thats the cold hard facts. Would love to see guys like MacDonald Derickx Dea Webberley O'Rielly Post Griffiths and the like getting games ahead of some others but until their form or bodies allow that to happen we're stuck with the glass half full types that you detest so much yet still give their all every week. Right now as a team that is expected to win no more than 6 games for the season thats all we can really expect.

ppppfffftttt you cant develop duds so why play em.
what is so bad with say moving conca ( LETS FACE IT HES HAD A TOUGH TIME OF IT DOWN BACK) to a wing for nahas and giving orielly or day a game on concas flank. ARENT WE ALL ABOUT FINDING PLAYERS OF THE FUTURE.RATHER THAN PERSEVEING WITH PLAYERS WHO HAVE NO LONG TERM FUTURE.
WHOOPS SORRY CAPS ON.

you dont even have the conviction to back nahas in yet defend ordinary games to the hilt totally ignoring his strengths and weaknesses.
na like i said i dont see the point in going around in circles ive seen more than enough of him and im more than prepared to back in my judgement on this one.
you well you will be defending him in ten yrs time after yyet another ordinary game because you refuse to get of the fence no matter what.

and as you know im not on about nahas but what our smalls currently give us as a whole. play nahas means one of the other smalls has to go.we cant keep on playing with all these small glass half fulls.

 

[_RT_]

ppppfffftttt you cant develop duds so why play em.
what is so bad with say moving conca ( LETS FACE IT HES HAD A TOUGH TIME OF IT DOWN BACK) to a wing for nahas and giving orielly or day a game on concas flank. ARENT WE ALL ABOUT FINDING PLAYERS OF THE FUTURE.RATHER THAN PERSEVEING WITH PLAYERS WHO HAVE NO LONG TERM FUTURE.
WHOOPS SORRY CAPS ON.

you dont even have the conviction to back nahas in yet defend ordinary games to the hilt totally ignoring his strengths and weaknesses.
na like i said i dont see the point in going around in circles ive seen more than enough of him and im more than prepared to back in my judgement on this one.
you well you will be defending him in ten yrs time after yyet another ordinary game because you refuse to get of the fence no matter what.

and as you know im not on about nahas but what our smalls currently give us as a whole. play nahas means one of the other smalls has to go.we cant keep on playing with all these small glass half fulls.

I'll say it again, players like Dea and O'Rielly haven't been in good enough form to warrant a spot in the side at the moment. Granted Dea had a good game at Coburg last week with 22 touches but needs to put in a few performances like that to warrant a spot.

I'm pretty sure in the past you've said that you wanted to see Vickery put in a month of good performances at Coburg before you would even consider bringing him back, so surely the same criteria should apply to all the kids or would you prefer we just give games to anyone who is under 22 because they put in one good effort a Coburg.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Ask and you shall receive.

Sewell 14 (9)
Ellis 14 (3)
Shies 13 (5)
Burgoyne 11 (6)
Renouf 11 (5)
Suckling 11 (5)
Savage 11 (4)
Young 11 (3)
Gilham 11 (2)
Roughead 10 (2)

Your point about the quality of our better pressure players is correct. Cant blame Nahas, White etc, but yes our better players need to lift

Thanks for the info Bazz

ah some common sense.we have the battlers who try hard and even lay the odd tackle and we have the so called well skilled blokes who fail to apply pressure.
how about we find some players that are are both.
whats that we have been saying again oh yeah we are full of glass half fulls.

santa, do you really believe that Richmond somehow magically ends up with with 40 useless players on their list each year through some act of God?

Do you really think that Clinton Jones (who you gave wraps to in another thread recently) was a far better player compared to say, Matt White or Daniel Jackson, when they each walked in the doors of their respective clubs?

There are so many factors within the realm of a footy club which determines whether a team or even a players develops and succeeds. Obviously being drafted into an already successful club will make most players look better right away. Our club has been at the depths of despair for some time, every player is behind the 8-ball when they arrive, yet you seem to think failure instilled in them before they arrive, and that we just happen to be the only club to attract failures.

I really think that what we lack is simply leadership. This would have been a major factor in the drafting of Reece Conca. This is a major reason why Jackson is such a major part of Dimma's plans. This is why Cotch is now the face of many an RFC media release. Good leaders don't care about what has happened in the past, they just go ahead and make their own history.

We are recruiting and developing leaders, something we don't really seem to have done for quite some time. Amazing how some of the so called "glass half empties" will be transformed when this comes to fruition. Some would suggest there are already some signs of this happening. Just look at Essendon, how many so called duds were in their core playing group last year that are all of a sudden world beaters?

 

[SHIGHT BLOKE]

I agree about Morton RT, playing such a talented player in starvation corner doesn't add up, he looked better when moved into midfield later in game. Dunno about midfield setup, must admit Ive found it starnge that cotch and martin look to be spending inordinate periods in front half, i can only assume it is aimed at packing some talent down there as we need to manufacture some goals.

and......time to add miller to the mix, He was put onto the list for this, the kids need expereinced help...tuck and miller a MUST

I could be very wrong, however I believe that Hardwick did say that he would implement defensive structure before instilling/honing in on an attacking element to the game style.

Cotch and Martin moving forward in games, I would imagine is being done so that they learn how to attack the goals and have it as a natural element in their game style.

This year and last year are primary development years. Spent restructuring the package so that it will essentially perform as a rotational unit. A defensive sweep with the ability and balance to still attack. Similar to a Geelong/Hawthorn/Collingwood model. Very different to St Kilda and Sydney which almost entirely relies on a defensive squeeze to conjure their goals.

 

[santa claws]

Thanks for the info Bazz




santa, do you really believe that Richmond somehow magically ends up with with 40 useless players on their list each year through some act of God?

Do you really think that Clinton Jones (who you gave wraps to in another thread recently) was a far better player compared to say, Matt White or Daniel Jackson, when they each walked in the doors of their respective clubs?

There are so many factors within the realm of a footy club which determines whether a team or even a players develops and succeeds. Obviously being drafted into an already successful club will make most players look better right away. Our club has been at the depths of despair for some time, every player is behind the 8-ball when they arrive, yet you seem to think failure instilled in them before they arrive, and that we just happen to be the only club to attract failures.

I really think that what we lack is simply leadership. This would have been a major factor in the drafting of Reece Conca. This is a major reason why Jackson is such a major part of Dimma's plans. This is why Cotch is now the face of many an RFC media release. Good leaders don't care about what has happened in the past, they just go ahead and make their own history.

We are recruiting and developing leaders, something we don't really seem to have done for quite some time. Amazing how some of the so called "glass half empties" will be transformed when this comes to fruition. Some would suggest there are already some signs of this happening. Just look at Essendon, how many so called duds were in their core playing group last year that are all of a sudden world beaters?

oh cmon dont treat me like a fool. who has ever said anything about 40 useless players.
i only criticise players who have deficiencies and who have had in the main plenty of time to show they will be at least up to standard.

i keep on hearing from people that all these deficient players will dramatically improve their deficiencies when i know that in the main it just never happens.

no i dont believe i praised clint jones at all with his foot skills hes a type i would never ever contemplate looking at for richmond when drafting..

what i did say is hes a much bagged player by most on here yet hes a far better player than white and jackson who all and sundry are proclaiming atm. and yes clint jones was a far better footballer than both white and jackson when he first walked thru the doors at stkilda.

he was no slouch when at sth freo hence he got rookied. he did it the hard way and actually proved himself at a lower level.

for a bloke whos been used primarily as a tagger his afl record is quite decent.who would i want in my team as a tagger white jackson or jones id take jones anyday. a natural mid who has sound judgment makes good decisions with the ball in hand has genuine size decent pace and can find the footy and generally works within his limitations and uses well.

to go with this hes easily stkildas best tagging player and one of the best in the afl. if i was going to draft a player with poor footskills he would be one id look at. in many ways hes a lot like brett kirk.

finally i agree, only a fool wouldnt. there are many factors within the realms of a footy club that determines weather a team or even a player develops and succeeds. but one factor is more important than all the others put together.
that is taking players with too many chronic deficiencies and expecting them to develop.it has been shown time and time again it does not happen or let me rephrase and say rarely.you only have to look and you will see are are the biggest culprits of this since the inception of the draft hence we are the worst club since its inception.
i can tell you now failure is if not instilled in many who come to our club and others is likely if they cant even kick a ball or make a decent decision.you are kidding yourself if you think other wise.and no i havent said we are the only who attracts failures i follow richmond and as such my focus is mainly on them.

dont sit there and try and tell me we have not regularly taken players who cant be developed. because thats exactly what we have done we have continually taken players that are lacking basic skills and smarts and this is why we cannot get out of the mire.

oh have to add if at pick 6 we drafted reece conca for other reasons other than we thought him the best available it would show we have not learnt a thing about the draft in 35 yrs of participation.

and the real finally. i can tell you now i was not one of the fools who wrote essendon off in fact i was one who supported their approach of talls first.i dont believe just like i dont at richmond bagged one of their young players but i do have reservations about a few of their older types just like at richmond.

 

[partycorolla]

Clinton Jones was very effective for about 2 seasons and has now been left behind the way the game has moved on. Give me Jackson and White any day over Jones. (It should be noted that I don't think Jackson will/should be in the best 22 when we are good, ditto White). However for the moment both are quite effective and should be in the team.... along with anyone else that Dimma thinks should be there. Thankfully these decisions are made by people who work with these guys every day and not by people like Santa who watch a bit on tv and make stupid negative knee jerk reactions....

 

[Richo_Daffy]

the main reason i believe we keep struggling is because we have the mentality of we are playing for the future. this seems to keep coming out of the club we are building we are looking to the next few years. how when you have a mentality like that can you win games of football? you cant.

the team goes out there to win yes no doubt, but where not playing for the now the present everything is done so in the future we will be better. how long can we continue to say we are playing for the future.

we should be going into every game not thinking, not believing, but knowing, we are going to win. go into games knowing your team mate is going to get the ball and kick it to you, handball to you, shepard for you, bust his ass off for you because he knows when its your turn you will do the same for him. thats why collingwood and now essendon are doing so well they know there teamates are going to do all these things so they run harder, they stand taller, they run faster, jump higher knowing that in the off chance they get beaten there teammate will back them up. but there never thinking its ok if i get beaten here ill have someone there, they know there going to win the contest and if they get beaten then someone will help.

im sick of were playing for the future. you can do that, but dont tell anyone tell the players and instill in them we are here to win a gf this year. we might not be good enough to win it or even make finals but if you go in with a mentality of we are hear to win every week it sure as hell beats saying to the media we are building and the players seeing that.

 

[partycorolla]

the main reason i believe we keep struggling is because we have the mentality of we are playing for the future. this seems to keep coming out of the club we are building we are looking to the next few years. how when you have a mentality like that can you win games of football? you cant.

the team goes out there to win yes no doubt, but where not playing for the now the present everything is done so in the future we will be better. how long can we continue to say we are playing for the future.

we should be going into every game not thinking, not believing, but knowing, we are going to win. go into games knowing your team mate is going to get the ball and kick it to you, handball to you, shepard for you, bust his ass off for you because he knows when its your turn you will do the same for him. thats why collingwood and now essendon are doing so well they know there teamates are going to do all these things so they run harder, they stand taller, they run faster, jump higher knowing that in the off chance they get beaten there teammate will back them up. but there never thinking its ok if i get beaten here ill have someone there, they know there going to win the contest and if they get beaten then someone will help.

im sick of were playing for the future. you can do that, but dont tell anyone tell the players and instill in them we are here to win a gf this year. we might not be good enough to win it or even make finals but if you go in with a mentality of we are hear to win every week it sure as hell beats saying to the media we are building and the players seeing that.

It worked for the Hawks.... and they got a flag out of it. I haven't heard Dimma say he was satisfied with any of the results so fat this season and you can bet the players aren't either. Look at Newy's reaction after the Saints game and media interviews well after the game. Playing for the future is the reality but the players are doing exactly as you want them to do....

 

[TOOs_Finest]

no i dont believe i praised clint jones at all with his foot skills hes a type i would never ever contemplate looking at for richmond when drafting..

what i did say is hes a much bagged player by most on here yet hes a far better player than white and jackson who all and sundry are proclaiming atm. and yes clint jones was a far better footballer than both white and jackson when he first walked thru the doors at stkilda.

he was no slouch when at sth freo hence he got rookied. he did it the hard way and actually proved himself at a lower level.

for a bloke whos been used primarily as a tagger his afl record is quite decent.who would i want in my team as a tagger white jackson or jones id take jones anyday. a natural mid who has sound judgment makes good decisions with the ball in hand has genuine size decent pace and can find the footy and generally works within his limitations and uses well.

to go with this hes easily stkildas best tagging player and one of the best in the afl. if i was going to draft a player with poor footskills he would be one id look at. in many ways hes a lot like brett kirk.

finally i agree, only a fool wouldnt. there are many factors within the realms of a footy club that determines weather a team or even a player develops and succeeds. but one factor is more important than all the others put together.
that is taking players with too many chronic deficiencies and expecting them to develop.it has been shown time and time again it does not happen or let me rephrase and say rarely.you only have to look and you will see are are the biggest culprits of this since the inception of the draft hence we are the worst club since its inception.
i can tell you now failure is if not instilled in many who come to our club and others is likely if they cant even kick a ball or make a decent decision.you are kidding yourself if you think other wise.and no i havent said we are the only who attracts failures i follow richmond and as such my focus is mainly on them.

dont sit there and try and tell me we have not regularly taken players who cant be developed. because thats exactly what we have done we have continually taken players that are lacking basic skills and smarts and this is why we cannot get out of the mire.

oh have to add if at pick 6 we drafted reece conca for other reasons other than we thought him the best available it would show we have not learnt a thing about the draft in 35 yrs of participation.

and the real finally. i can tell you now i was not one of the fools who wrote essendon off in fact i was one who supported their approach of talls first.i dont believe just like i dont at richmond bagged one of their young players but i do have reservations about a few of their older types just like at richmond.

lol santa. You do realise it doesn't make sense to select someone at pick 6 without them being the best available, don't you. Who would draft a player thinking, "well we want him the most, but lets take him instead". The fact is that best available just happens to be best available matching the qualities sought after. Later in your own post, you talk about Essendon taking talls ahead of smalls, so even you agree that you apply your needs to your drafting strategy.

For years, we have been crying out for very good footballers who are outstanding leaders. Thank god we have drafted a few in recent years (imo Cotch, Jack, Astbury, Conca for starters).

And if you rate Jones a good decision maker, then you're letting yourself down. He takes longer than Jacko to dispose of the ball on most occasions. Is a good tackler, has a decent tank, not much else. Has ridden the wave of the Saints success for a couple of years, been shite this year... no coincidence. Jacko has been three times the player thus far this season, now that they are playing in similarly placed sides. (But I know you will stick to your guns here, so I don't expect you to respond to that, just differing opinions... just so happens you'd probly find Ross Lyon and 100's of others would agree with me)

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

It worked for the Hawks.... and they got a flag out of it. I haven't heard Dimma say he was satisfied with any of the results so fat this season and you can bet the players aren't either. Look at Newy's reaction after the Saints game and media interviews well after the game. Playing for the future is the reality but the players are doing exactly as you want them to do....

The fact he stated our performance against Adelaide was 'soul destroying' before a ball has even kicked in anger makes me think the attitude & environment has changed from teaching\encouraging to teaching\demanding.

It's a fine line between developing players and picking playrs on merit & what is regareded our best 22 (and I mean picking out best 22 on merit on where our list sits on a whole). The reason for that is the lack of experience. Players such as Tuck, even picking Grimes to play on Buddy over Thursfleld e.g to me implies he\match comitee are loking to give kids games know to give them a taste whilst holding a few more experienced players back for later in the season as the kids start to tire.
As I said its a fine line, we have many kids and you cant play them all at once as thet wil get smashed & may damage their confindence \ burn out so I think they are trying to mix it up by giving the players they think might take us fwd their 10\15 odd games with the players that wont be there for our next premiership but are really needed right now in terms of experience