Why will Collingwood do well this year?

[nick_savo]

Why will Collingwood do well this year?
Sorry guys I am doing a practise essay for school and he gave me this topic, dont ask me why...... Anyways please give me your reasons.
Thanks for doing my homework

 

[Dave The Man]

What Year Level?

 

[daics cousin]

If we have a full team to pick from,and don't get dragged down by injuries,the pies will finish top 4.Our second half has us playing all games at homeand we don't have to travel which is a huge benefit compared to a lot of other clubs.So what we need to field a close to full team for the majority of the season.If we can do that,the mixture of youth and experience will see us sneak atop 4 possie.That in place,finals action with a full side,well anything can happen,even apremiership maybe.Wouldn't that surprise the most die hard supporter and all the detractors.A premiership in ayear when even all collingwood supporters thought oh,well we are rebuilding we will end up somewhere in the middle of the pack.Then there's the detractors from other clubs that simply hate collingwood.Could you imagine there faces if the Pies stol;e apremiership in a rebuilding year.They would all choke from envey.I can see the headlines now....PIES WIN PREMIERSHIP IN REBUILDING PHASE OR TARRANT LEAVES COLLINWOOD,PIES WIN PREMIERSHIP.ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah

 

[Haggard H]

Why will Collingwood do well this year?


I'm sorry but you're in for a D- at best, unless you can argue in the negative.

 

[Parallel Andy]

Well if you're doing an essay, then analyse each part of the team separately:

Backline:
We probably have the most solid backline in the league.
Presti and Clement are both capable of nulifying almost every forward in the competition.
Then we have Maxwell, who is nearly capable of taking the best forwards, as our third defender.
On top of this we have Wakelin, who though ageing can stll play a cameo role against some of the slower, larger forwards.
We have a youngster in O'brien, who is comfortably capable of taking a third or fourth forward.
On the half back flanks we have Shaw and Johnson who are very attacking defenders.

Which brings us to the midfeld:
Having already filled the half back flank roles, Lonie can be pushed onto a wing, where he can have room to move and play as a goal kicking wingman.
We have Swann as a high possession midfielder.......

Sorry that's it for me......You can figure out the rest....hehehehehe....

 

[Claude Balls]

Well if ou'r doing an essay, then analyse each part of the team seperately:

Backline:
We probably have the most solid backline in the league.
Presti and Clement are both capable of nulifying almost every forward in the competition.
Then we have Maxwell, who is nearly capable of taking the best forwards, as our third defender.
On top of this we have Wakelin, who though ageing can stll play a cameo role against some of the slower, larger forwards.
We have a youngster in O'brien, who is comfortably capable of taking a third or fourth forward.
On the half back flanks we have Shaw and Johnson who are very attacking defenders.

Which brings us to the midfeld:
Having already filled the half back flank roles, Lonie can be pushed onto a wing, where he can have room to move and play as a goal kicking wingman.
We have Swann as a high possession midfielder.......

Sorry that's it for me......You can figure out the rest....hehehehehe....

Parrallel Andy you must be on the most deluded and one-eyed supporter going round! Earlier you were quoted on a Bay 13 arguing that Clement should be included in the top 10 players since 2000 ahead of the likes of Harvey, Goodes etc. Despite these players having about 50 AA selections and multiple brownlows/norm smiths between them!!!

Are there many collingwood supporters on this board who agree with your appraisals??

Clement is a gun player, no doubt about it. But Presti?!! and MAXWELL

Collingwood certainly do not have the best backline in the league. I know you said 'solid', but without clarification this means basically the same thing. Think Adelaide, West Coast, Sydney and you're on the right track. Even Geelong stands up in an argument against Collingwood. Scarlett, Harley, Milburn, Hunt etc etc.

 

[Claude Balls]

And please don't prove to be as sensitive as the Carlton Board. I'm not out to bait. I would be happy argue your assertions amicably

 

[doppleganger]

Presti is a great FB

he owns tredders
J.Brown rates Presti as his toughest opponent, Presti is a great player but because he is not flashy he doesn't get much media, but as a stopper he is great

Clement is the best all round defender going around, can take smalls like williams, mediums like hird/robbo, bigs like n.thompson/pav etc and he beats them, not just holds his own but beats them

they are our two keys, cant think of a better combo who can cover any combo of forwards

then thrown in with that are

Maxwell, bit like egan at the cats, just gets the job done, but he broke his leg last year
Wakelin, a great CHB but will probably only be a back up in 07, how many sides have a bloke the quality of Wakelin that will struggle to get a game??

Lonie has done jobs on blokes like Goodes, Burton, B.Johnson and done well
H.O'Brien is a talent

B.Johnson, H.Shaw are great attacking half back flankers who run and carry the ball

only issue is with a really quick BP type for the likes of farmer, milne etc as lockyer can get burnt

 

[Mark W]

Claude, like many punters, I think you underestimate how good Presti is. Yup very limited footballer, certainly not the all round footballer that Scarlett is - but as a stopper he is excellent. Superb finals record - terrific performances on Brown (who rated him his toughest opponent) and Tredrea when it counted in 2002/3. Backed it up superbly and showed his versatility on Brad Johnson in 2006, even though the ball was coming down unimpeded. Simply, he is very hard to get a kick on, very seldom beaten.

On the other points I think my fellow Pies supporters are getting a bit carried away. Maxwell is nothing more than a gutsy battler, he'll be lucky to keep the more talented Jack Anthony or Cox out of the team this year IMO. Harry O'Brien is not without potential, is very raw and has a long way to go. Agree Heath Shaw and Jono are good small defenders - but there is a fair chance they will be needed in the midfield. If so, their replacements are not crash hot IMO.

 

[doppleganger]

Collingwood certainly do not have the best backline in the league. I know you said 'solid', but without clarification this means basically the same thing. Think Adelaide, West Coast, Sydney and you're on the right track. Even Geelong stands up in an argument against Collingwood. Scarlett, Harley, Milburn, Hunt etc etc.

Id much rather have

Presti and Clement over

Rutten and Basset
L.Barry and LRT
Glass and Hunter


if Harley can get back to good form i may take Harley and Scarlett over the pies combo

but we have great KP depth with Maxwell, Wakelin, H.O'Brien already proved themselves as more then capable on a "3rd tall" and unproven but highly rated blokes like J.Anthony, and N.Brown

 

[nick_savo]

What Year Level?

Year 10 mate, as I said it is a practise essay.

 

[Claude Balls]

Presti is a great FB

he owns tredders
J.Brown rates Presti as his toughest opponent, Presti is a great player but because he is not flashy he doesn't get much media, but as a stopper he is great

Clement is the best all round defender going around, can take smalls like williams, mediums like hird/robbo, bigs like n.thompson/pav etc and he beats them, not just holds his own but beats them

they are our two keys, cant think of a better combo who can cover any combo of forwards

then thrown in with that are

Maxwell, bit like egan at the cats, just gets the job done, but he broke his leg last year
Wakelin, a great CHB but will probably only be a back up in 07, how many sides have a bloke the quality of Wakelin that will struggle to get a game??

Lonie has done jobs on blokes like Goodes, Burton, B.Johnson and done well
H.O'Brien is a talent

B.Johnson, H.Shaw are great attacking half back flankers who run and carry the ball

only issue is with a really quick BP type for the likes of farmer, milne etc as lockyer can get burnt

I wouldn't read too far into the comments of one opponent. However I am an admirer of 'Presti' I admit. He is unassuming, gets the job done like you say and he seems like a measured, kind person. IMO however, he is perhaps somewhat one dimensional in his defensive capabilities compared to the elite defenders in the competition, such as Clement, Scarlett, Glass etc. And in addition to this he is not in the least bit dexterous, to the point of being clumsy at times. In short, he is some way from being a class player.

Clement in 2006 was definately the best all round defender in the comp. agreed

Heath Shaw will be a gun absolutely, and Ben Johnson is very good

...yet does all this mean Collingwood has the best backline in the league?

There are many teams with outstanding defenders in their side. Or at the very least very, very good ones:

Sydney: Kennelly, Barry

Westcoast: Glass, Wirrpanda

Adelaide: Rutten, Mcleod,

Bulldogs: Harris, Griffen, Gilby etc, great run out of defense

Geelong: Scarlett, Harley, Milburn

And of course Collingwood: Clement, Shaw, B. Johnson...

What do you think?

 

[lenny&carl]

Id much rather have

Presti and Clement over
...

Glass and Hunter

I'd prefer Glass & Hunter. Or rather, I rate that pair above ours(just), I wouldn't actually swap them. On some level, after a while, you do barrack for the individual players rather than just the jumper. You still love your missus even if there's a better looking bird at work.

 

[Dave The Man]

Year 10 mate, as I said it is a practise essay.

I Hope your Teacher Don't See This!

 

[nick_savo]

I Hope your Teacher Don't See This!

So do I
Nar, I highly doubt he will.

 

[Dave The Man]

So do I
Nar, I highly doubt he will.

Yeah, I have Finshed High School and it's good when someone else smarter to do it for you!

 

[FIGJAM]

It's less "why" we "will" do it, but more that assuming certain conditions, this is how we can back up last year with another good one.

We are essentially unchanged from the team that finished fifth last year, other than we've culled a number of juniors who were barely able to command VFL positions and Tarrant, who was a negative influence off the field, and erratic on it. Caracella deserves a mention for AFL standard quality, but his impact in his time at the club was sporatic and he was on the periphery anyway.

Many will sight a good run with injuries last year as one of the main reasons for our improvement. They also sight a good draw. Both are probably true and we have another good draw. We arguably need to have limited injuries for a top five finish, and practically no injuries to key personell such as Fraser, Rocca and Clement. This is not unfathomable.

Didak's recovery appears to be better than expected. If he managed to play 7 rounds on a torn one, I suppose a quicker recovery from him isn't a surprise. We shouldn't rush him, but his footy hunger will see him back sooner rather than later.

We have replaced a broken ruck foil for another, but one who can potentially be more reliable once recovered from his knee clean-up. Richards has had his first full pre-season ever and hopefully Josh will be back training soon.

As for the age factor, Wakelin was used as a spare parts man only. Burnsy had sporatic impact, and we should expect something similar this year. Rocca is more unfit or injured than old, and he's had a full pre-season. As for the Great One, we can expect at least the same from Bucks barring injury and a bit like Robert Harvey, people seem to think that they have retired already, when in fact they are still freak superstars! So the old-timers actually aren't or won't be a tremendous cause for concern.

There are many ifs and buts and things can change in the blink of an eye. We aren't the Port Adelaide of 2004, who can cover for key and/or many injuries. We know that, and it's out cross to bear for poor recruiting from 2001 to 2003.

So assuming we get a fair run with injury, where can we improve? It's in the youth. We have a lot of core players who are solid and some of them cop unfair criticism, even from us. What these types need is the continual pressure to perform from youngsters and also the flair that they can bring when playing side by side.

The Hine-lings who can realistically have some improvement and can fill much needed roles, include the 2004 crop of Egan, Rusling and Cloke. Thomas' tank and engine will hopefully be able to hold more steam and hopefully Pendlebury realises a bit more of his untapped potential.

Anthony's injury is a set-back, but an appearance from him at some stage is not unrealistic. Nor is some good form in his appearances.

Cox too brings something very unique to the mix, and despite the fact that I expect him to be overwhelmed early (just a hunch), I anticipate a bit of patience to pay off, with him pushhing for permanent selection by years' end.

Continued good form, and perhaps improvement from, the likes of Swan and Heath Shaw could also ensure we are winning games consistently. More time in the midfield for them will also alieviate pressure on the blue collar boys like O'Bree and Licuria.

Then there are potential surprises. You always start off with the "Don't expect the first years to do anything" disclaimer, but the fact is one or two invariably do, for pretty much every team. A Nate Brown may have a run quite early and if the guts look a bit barron, then I could envisage us slipping a D|ck in there!

 

[FIGJAM]

And Martin Clarke.

Case closed.

 

[Claude Balls]

I'd prefer Glass & Hunter. Or rather, I rate that pair above ours(just), I wouldn't actually swap them. On some level, after a while, you do barrack for the individual players rather than just the jumper. You still love your missus even if there's a better looking bird at work.

comical analogy, nice work

Claude, like many punters, I think you underestimate how good Presti is. Yup very limited footballer, certainly not the all round footballer that Scarlett is - but as a stopper he is excellent. Superb finals record - terrific performances on Brown (who rated him his toughest opponent) and Tredrea when it counted in 2002/3. Backed it up superbly and showed his versatility on Brad Johnson in 2006, even though the ball was coming down unimpeded. Simply, he is very hard to get a kick on, very seldom beaten.

On the other points I think my fellow Pies supporters are getting a bit carried away. Maxwell is nothing more than a gutsy battler, he'll be lucky to keep the more talented Jack Anthony or Cox out of the team this year IMO. Harry O'Brien is not without potential, is very raw and has a long way to go. Agree Heath Shaw and Jono are good small defenders - but there is a fair chance they will be needed in the midfield. If so, their replacements are not crash hot IMO.

I suppose it's as Lenny and Carl said: at some point you start barracking for the players. Your argument for Presti has me in his favour, however I still think that the Pies' faithful hold him in a marginally higher regard than the broader AFL population. meh. go presti

Id much rather have

Presti and Clement over

Rutten and Basset
L.Barry and LRT
Glass and Hunter


if Harley can get back to good form i may take Harley and Scarlett over the pies combo

but we have great KP depth with Maxwell, Wakelin, H.O'Brien already proved themselves as more then capable on a "3rd tall" and unproven but highly rated blokes like J.Anthony, and N.Brown

so much for Geelong depends on this factor. Fit and in form, the two of them marshall a very strong defence. Personally I don't think it will happen but who knows.

Good luck for the season chaps

 

[doppleganger]

I suppose it's as Lenny and Carl said: at some point you start barracking for the players. Your argument for Presti has me in his favour, however I still think that the Pies' faithful hold him in a marginally higher regard than the broader AFL population. meh. go presti

the thing with presti is that he looks awkward when he has the ball, and hence as an attacking option is virtually non existent from him, but as a pure defender/spoiler/scragger there is no better. He has the pace to go with B.Johnson on the lead and the body strength to wrestle with J.Brown.

The only thing stopping him being rated is his lack of attack, as a stopper he is as good as it gets

so much for Geelong depends on this factor. Fit and in form, the two of them marshall a very strong defence. Personally I don't think it will happen but who knows.

yep if harley and scarlo can work lead the team, geelong may be able to turn it around very quickly

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Read this thread, and write the entire thing about how Martin Clarke will win the Brownlow, Coleman and Norm Smith Medal this year, and I can guarantee that you will get an A+.

It is a creative writing exercise, right?

 

[Parallel Andy]

Parrallel Andy you must be on the most deluded and one-eyed supporter going round! Earlier you were quoted on a Bay 13 arguing that Clement should be included in the top 10 players since 2000 ahead of the likes of Harvey, Goodes etc. Despite these players having about 50 AA selections and multiple brownlows/norm smiths between them!!!

Are there many collingwood supporters on this board who agree with your appraisals??

Clement is a gun player, no doubt about it. But Presti?!! and MAXWELL

Collingwood certainly do not have the best backline in the league. I know you said 'solid', but without clarification this means basically the same thing. Think Adelaide, West Coast, Sydney and you're on the right track. Even Geelong stands up in an argument against Collingwood. Scarlett, Harley, Milburn, Hunt etc etc.

Malthouse built the team around the defense.
Clement IMO is clearly the best backman going around.
Presti is rarley ever beaten.
Have you actually watched Maxwell play, that is more than once or twice? His game has improved dramatically to the extent i would not expect him to be beaten too many times this year either.
The rest I have already commented and I can't be stuffed going over it again.
By the way, Geelongs backline? Are you serious?
Did you watch the game last year against our boys? 102 points I believe. That's not much of a backline.

 

[doppleganger]

By the way, Geelongs backline? Are you serious?
Did you watch the game last year against our boys? 102 points I believe. That's not much of a backline.

Geelong is they get Harley back to his best and fully fit have a great backline

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Id much rather have

Presti and Clement over

Rutten and Basset
L.Barry and LRT
Glass and Hunter

What about Fletcher and Michael.

Two of the best going around, now on the same team.

 

[Claude Balls]

Malthouse built the team around the defense.
Clement IMO is clearly the best backman going around.
Presti is rarley ever beaten.
Have you actually watched Maxwell play, that is more than once or twice? His game has improved dramatically to the extent i would not expect him to be beaten too many times this year either.
The rest I have already commented and I can't be stuffed going over it again.
By the way, Geelongs backline? Are you serious?
Did you watch the game last year against our boys? 102 points I believe. That's not much of a backline.

My Girlfriend and her family are raging Magpies supporters so yes, I have watched him many times. The simple fact is you are rating him way to high. Just as another Collingwood supporter on this board (Max W) has stated, his fellow Collingwood supporters, namely yourself, are getting carried away. Maxwell is indeed nothing more than "an honest battler".

And just like yet more Collingwood supporters on this board have asserted, a fit Scarlett & Harley combination will arguably take the cake over Presti and Clement - See Doppleganger's post above. There is no need for you to go ridiculing them on the basis of one game. Geelong's capitulation was testimony to a magnificent effort by Collingwood across the entire board, and not the fact that their defence couldn't hold up. It was one of those nights that every club has. I know I don't need to find some evidence of the exactly the same thing happening to Collingwood the year before when Clement a\nd Presti were both in the side

Your response has basically proved my initial post correct: that you are unashamedly one-eyed without a shred of objectivity in you whatsoever.
You need to come up with something better Parralel. you are leaving yourself open to dissection