wikileaks

[philthy05]

this is getting crazy. what does everyone think about this. just seems like straight out of a movie.

i for one am a fan, one of the things assange said made too much sense; when talking about wikileaks he says they have released more classified documents then the rest of the media combined ever, and says this isnt about how successful wikileaks is but shows the parlous state of the rest of the media. i have to agree, the links between big money and politicians and the media have interupted the information flow. we now live in a democracy but they can still influence who will be in power by manipulations such as controlling flow of information.

interesting too to note that nothing has been denied. these insane videos and crazy stuff comes out and the powers come out and say that he has risked "national security". sooo he is right then? but shouldnt be said because its dangerous for the people to know stuff... like the truth?

watch the interview with stephen colbert that is interesting. i can see this ramping up and after lots of talk from people in power who have openly said they want him dead or in jail forever im actually worried he doesnt have long before someone acts.

the rape allegations are crazy too. who knows i dont know the guy or what he has done but it sounds way too suspect. if you had someone who was causing you this much trouble and open assassination isnt an option because of the media backlash then you would try to assassinate his character. some of these comments from so called educated people in high positions in parliament asking for him to be killed is telling of the self-rightiousness and sheer evil that comes from power. wanting someone dead because he releases information that shows you putting peoples lives in danger then claiming that releasing this information has put soldiers at risk as justification why he should be killed/ jailed forever ....... really?

how many australians or australian soldiers feel like they are in danger now as a result of the information he has released? oooh no.... governments are underhanded and dirty and make mistakes and cover them up and flout the law to achieve what they want and now i know this i dont really feel safe in afganistan any more.. oooh ( sarcastic voice).

ps andrew bolt is a tool, i liked the article where he writes that assange didnt tell us anything new, and what he did tell us just confirms that the world is a bad place and why the U.S. has to do the things they do. right so andrew knew all about the apache opening fire and killing reporters and the military covering it up, and hillary clinton's orders to spy on the U.N. nice one jerk off.

 

[philthy05]

also interesting to note that the wikileaks website is currently unavailable, whether the server is just down or what i dont know but i suspect like in other countries it has been shutdown.

kinda ridiculous seeing as every other day some idiot at work will be talking about how he has downloaded a video of a woman having sex with a horse or a man being beheaded, but god help him if he ever gets on wikileaks, now that would be horrible.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/wikileaks-offline-after-domain-killed/story-e6frfro0-1225965338553

WIKILEAKS has been taken offline after its domain host EveryDNS.net terminated the whistleblower website's account.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/w...ed/story-e6frfro0-1225965338553#ixzz172JQqUsk

 

[Relativity]

What odds on him meeting with an "accident"? If I were him I'd be booking myself into BinLaden's grotto for an extended stay.

 

[philthy05]

good work tsw,

i have such a bad feeling about this.. like they will try to bury this guy ride out the couple of weeks of bad media while they rush new laws through to charge him or try to influence the swedish court case against him, then create a few distractions and it will just blow over. how is everyone not talking about this i dont know... i just watched some woman complaining about her neighbour on the news?? wtf..

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Here's a Q&A with Julian Assange, from The Guardian website.

 

[philthy05]

thanks ford, interesting reading, ive read alot of interviews but hadnt seen that one yet.

being shutdown by amazon and whatever server they were on here in australia kind of makes a mockery of the " our countries are great because we have democracy and free speech" look like high and mighty bullshit.

we should say, we have the freedom to choose who leads our country so much as we can choose from this rich guy or that rich guy who has been vetted by a system that requires a natural selection of sorts whereby eliminating those that dont play along with the players and; free speech just so long as it doesnt affect anyone powerful who will have strings to other positions of power and influence.

and to think we laugh at china and the way their government controls what information they recieve. at least they know thats happening, its an authoritarian state.

 

[Powerade 08]

This guy has been hiding for a long time, they've been after him basically since the site started. Already been taken into custody because of these charges earlier this year, and then released when they were found to be bullshit. lol.

He's given all the info out but password protected it, set it up so if he gets caught/killed all the info he has is released.

All they can do atm is hurt his rep.

 

[Pinepower]

I am worried about what he has done.

WW11

"Loose lips sink ships"

I think that it also says a lot about where we are as a society in that we now feel we need to know everything.

Our leaders really do need to be able to say things in confidence to each other, as hopefully they know more than us.

I would say that he has put all troops in danger and he is more dangerous than the all the terrorists.

I certainly would not be telling him anything in confidence.

 

[philthy05]

I am worried about what he has done.

WW11

"Loose lips sink ships"

1.I think that it also says a lot about where we are as a society in that we now feel we need to know everything.

2.Our leaders really do need to be able to say things in confidence to each other, as hopefully they know more than us.

3.I would say that he has put all troops in danger and he is more dangerous than the all the terrorists.

I certainly would not be telling him anything in confidence.

1. i think we deserve to know certain things. like when u.s forces gun down innocent people the right thing is to come out and say so, then face the backwash which would hopefully force them to review processes so that a) when an apache gunner says to his pilot " theres an rpg and an ak-47" (mistakenly), than goes on to tell (lie) higher command there is "6 of them with ak-47's" it will be the last time it happens.

2. yes, there would be exceptions were secrecy is the case. not a blanket thrown over everything. the leaks have shown that they cant tell each other secretly because they spy on eachother lol.

3. this is the biggest lie and greatest tool perpetrated by governments. if you speak out you are claimed to be anti- government, anti-democracy, anti-freedom blah blah bullshit. oh you put our soldiers at risk?? ummm they were put at risk by being sent to a warzone. also, tell me which specific leak has risked a life and who that is? the apache video?? the one where hillary clinton tells staff to spy on the u.n.?? 99% of the cables were just ridiculous stuff showing how dodgy our government staff are really with the odd exception being truly horrendous. there was one exception where he released a few names that he copped some flak for, but they were not donnie brasco type operatives ( which seems to be some peoples assumption) in the field and he has said that he had people go and tell them personally before he released it.

i have to laugh at the u.s. governments hypocrisy at rushing through laws to charge people who release the names of operatives, considering the movie Fair Game has just been released is actually based on the true story when the u.s. government released an operatives name to punish her after her husband publicly spoke out about them. by their own admission in creating these laws they have commited treason in that act. as usual one set of laws for people and one set of laws for people in power.

i think you need to read a bit more before you condemn him. i honestly dont know what his motives are and maybe, im wrong and he does cross the line but his whole thing is that;

governments make decisions= outcome ( which is the same for all except these decisions affect alot more than we do).

we are all held accountable for the decisions we make. we either profit from them, or make mistakes and someone can suffer or there are some type of consequence.

from this we learn, personally, or pay a price. in government we vote based on what we know of their decisions and the consequences.

how can we ever learn or expect the government to learn, or vote to change government or ask for real change if they lie and we dont know whats really going on. people in power always want to hold onto that power, remember, they lie to us in THEIR interests not ours. not to protect some kid serving in iraq. not to protect you pinepower.

 

[philthy05]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/wikileaks-offline-after-domain-killed/story-e6frfro0-1225965338553

this also brings up some interesting questions. the internet has long been labeled as a great platform for free speech. now we are seeing quite the opposite with big business buying alot of the sites and controlling what can be said. pressure from governments has seen wikileaks banished from many servers.

what if the AFL bought this site? what if they put considerable money into sponsorship and decided that they didnt like some of the critical things that we say? we could be banned from the site if we questioned how they were running the game. its less likely to happen in our situation (particularly because the health of the game relies on our attendance and viewing unlike life where you pay taxes or go to jail). but it shows you the problems with corporations, the government and free speech, now the internet isnt safe.

 

[Burningleviathan]

I like how they want to bring charges of espionage against him, yet the people in the department responsible for having al their information stolen haven't been brought out in public and made to answer question.

I also like how a release of diplomat exchanges has bought about more conversation then the apache killing reporters leak did.

It's ammusing that governments who have sought ways to pry into our privates lives without warrents for the sake of our security, now complain that the same can be done to them.

There was a good piece comparing Wikileaks to Napster, in that they both broke moulds, were prosecuted and those that followed wil learn from the mistakes made by both trend setter. Was a good read
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41846.html#m557684

 

[philthy05]

a scale of evil..

julian assange-

• allegedly risked lives by exposing lies
• believes in transparency of government
• allegedly broke or lost a condom while having sex with a swedish woman

u.s. soldiers-

• misidentified targets
• lied about targets to hq
• killed 2 journalists
• commented " their fault for bringing their kids to war" after learning had shot 2 kids in the attack.

u.s. government

• told press, " the u.s. forces were in a battle with insurgents" ,
• and '' only insurgents were killed"
• told reuters they were unaware how their journalists died
• and numerous other shoddy things too many to list

where does assange sit on that list compared to the guy that shot 2 kids. or the guy that lied about it? they shouldnt bring their kids to war?? its not the jungles of vietnam or some mutually agreed location, like we will see you behind the school shed after lunch. its in their homes on the streets. you dont go to someones country and open fire on people in the streets and dust your hands of it. you are responsible for it. live with it. if you think the war is worth it then stand by it rather then hide it. in the end, no-one would trade their kids for any amount of "security" in the region or to overthrow a dictator or whatever. we wouldnt make that choice but its ok cause we dont have to see its been made for us.


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[Ford Fairlane]

Is the editor of The Age now in danger, and that site at risk of being drone-attacked off the internet? What happens when mainstream media happily report the content of these files?

Scathing attacks on Rudd revealed in US diplomatic cables
Philip Dorling
December 8, 2010
link

FOREIGN Minister Kevin Rudd is an abrasive, impulsive ''control freak'' who presided over a series of foreign policy blunders during his time as prime minister, according to secret United States diplomatic cables.

The scathing assessment - detailed in messages sent by the US embassy in Canberra to Secretaries of State Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton over several years - are among hundreds of US State Department cables relating to Australia obtained by WikiLeaks and made available exclusively to The Age.
link

 

[Portology]

There's an old adage that goes "the internet recognizes censorship as damage, and routes around it". "Mainstream media" is probably what, no more than about 100 very identifiable blokes around the world who could probably agree not to do run some stories that might cause a credible threat to lives.

 

[Puddy]

I can say that Julian Assange has balls

 

[Powerade 08]

I would say that he has put all troops in danger and he is more dangerous than the all the terrorists.

I certainly would not be telling him anything in confidence.

Yea nah.

The only thing that has been hurt by the leaks is the reputation of a few people in power. There is no proof of anyone else being put in danger.

He turned himself in, for those of you who don't know. Held in custody until dec 14 now and denied bail.

Looks like they want to get him over to Sweden and then into the hands of the US...

 

[Burningleviathan]

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

Oh, i'm hearing elsewhere he won't be charged with rape but something else under Sweden's sex laws.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I can say that Julian Assange has balls

There is a fine line between courage and stupidity. I'm not sure which side of the line Assange is on. I'm also not sure if that line is moving or standing still.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I approve of Wikileaks. The public can only be better off for knowing what's done in their name.

It will be fascinating to see what happens now to Assange. I'm obviously an outsider but it seems to me odds on that the rape charges are fraudulent. I would be very worried if I was him or one of his loved ones.

BTW wouldn't it be sensational if some Chinese stuff got leaked too? I guess some has come out indirectly such as their attitude toward North Korea but real inside stuff would be so enlightening.

 

[Portology]

There is a fine line between courage and stupidity. I'm not sure which side of the line Assange is on. I'm also not sure if that line is moving or standing still.

if the only two choices were to shutdown the net or to continue to allow the possibility of whistleblowing organizations like wikileaks to exist, I know which option I'd choose. there is a third option though, the Chinese government style 'co-opt, confuse & control'. Don't explicitly deny things, that generates an attention of its own. just exert enough influence on society to see that certain things are socially frowned upon and exert just enough influence on the technology to make 'doing the wrong thing' unreliable (thats effectively what the Great Firewall does for the Chinese) and eventually people will ignore it and go back to their reality TV shows or back to 'making money' or whatever the more socially desirable activity is.

anyway it seems to me 'taking a leak' has a whole new meaning now

 

[philthy05]

I approve of Wikileaks. The public can only be better off for knowing what's done in their name.

It will be fascinating to see what happens now to Assange. I'm obviously an outsider but it seems to me odds on that the rape charges are fraudulent. I would be very worried if I was him or one of his loved ones.

BTW wouldn't it be sensational if some Chinese stuff got leaked too? I guess some has come out indirectly such as their attitude toward North Korea but real inside stuff would be so enlightening.

like the chinese official who googled himself and didnt find what was said very flattering, so ordered the hacking of google?

 

[philthy05]

Yea nah.

The only thing that has been hurt by the leaks is the reputation of a few people in power. There is no proof of anyone else being put in danger.


Looks like they want to get him over to Sweden and then into the hands of the US...

yeah, its a bit funny of the government to cry foul over the risk of lives for the ideal that is freedom of speech and democracy. they are trying to erode the rights of people to make an informed decision by actively lying, manipulating, and keeping the truth from the public. this goes against what real democracy is about. what good is choice of government if you dont really know who your voting for?

by the way...

invasion of iraq, to protect us based upon the information that they were stockpiling weapons of mass destruction which we now know as either

A) incompetency of government departments and a readiness of officials to believe what they wanted, or

B) an outright lie to achieve an agenda

4746 u.s. and coalition troop deaths

terrorist bombing of twin towers

2752 deaths

wikileaks released classified documents

? casualties unknown. speculative risk.

all are done in the name of freedom by the perpetrators

all are claimed as evil from people of different perspectives.

how can any logical person argue that even if assange has risked lives (and its just speculative), that its not worth the cost when so many die for whatever ideal the government puts forth?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If any of you have watched the Australian doco, In the Realm of Hackers, broadcast by the ABC in 2003 and repeated a couple of times, you will find an interesting link with Assange, and maybe get an insight into his mentality about leaks.

Anyway if you have forgotten about it, or not seen it - it's about a couple of kids in Melbourne who joined a hacking group in the late 80's, in particular the hackers Electron and Phoenix. Using a 64k modem they hacked into US defence forces and US banks computers and into NASA and left a message with the following screen - WANK - worms against nuclear killers - and left the verses from Midnight Oils When the Generals Talk - as their calling card.

W O R M S A G A I N S T N U C L E A R K I L L E R S
_______________________________________________________________
\__ ____________ _____ ________ ____ ____ __ _____/
\ \ \ /\ / / / /\ \ | \ \ | | | | / / /
\ \ \ / \ / / / /__\ \ | |\ \ | | | |/ / /
\ \ \/ /\ \/ / / ______ \ | | \ \| | | |\ \ /
\_\ /__\ /____/ /______\ \____| |__\ | |____| |_\ \_/
\___________________________________________________/
\ /
\ Your System Has Been Officically WANKed /
\_____________________________________________/

You talk of times of peace for all, and then prepare for war.

They were probably the first individual hackers in the world to do this sort of stuff to the US defence forces and they sent the blokes at NASA in particular, crazy. NASA at the time were sending up the Galileo space probe which was nuclear powered, their first ever nuclear powered probe. The probe was due for launch on 21st November 1989. Everyone who logged onto a NASA computer on 16th October 1989, instead of the usual system's official identification banner, had the above message on their screen. And then the following happened;

A NASA scientist logging in to an infected computer on that Monday got the following message:

deleted file <filename1>
deleted file <filename2>
deleted file <filename3>
deleted file <filename4>
deleted file <filename5>
deleted file <filename6>

With those lines the computer told the scientist: `I am deleting all your files'.

The line looked exactly as if the scientist typed in the command:

delete/log *.*

--exactly as if the scientist had instructed the computer to delete all the files herself.

If you have forgotten the doco (or didn't see it) here are a couple of prompts.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/documentaries/stories/s853348.htm

Or this is the doco - first part of 6 videos on You Tube - full now






In The Weekend Australian on Saturday they had a long article on Assange, which is a bloody good read and below is linked a bit near the end of the article. It looks like Assange, if not involved directly with Electron and Phoneix in 1989, got to know them and was in their group, as in 1991 the Feds raided his place when he was hacking into telcos and uni's.

He used the hacking name Mendax from 1987.

Julian Assange, wild child of free speech

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...d-of-free-speech/story-fn775xjq-1225969230839

..............
Author and journalist Suelette Dreyfus met Assange through mutual friends in Melbourne in the early 1990s. He struck her as "a very impressive person", with a restless, deep intelligence.

Assange was the principal informant for her 1997 book Underground: Tales of Hacking, Madness and Obsession on the Electronic Frontier. During these years, she says, Assange studied, without any particular regard for graduating, haunted the state library and worked towards the idea that became WikiLeaks.
Dreyfus says there was a strong common theme among the hackers with whom Assange associated.
..................

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...d-of-free-speech/story-fn775xjq-1225969230839

I have a txt and pdf copy of the book. It details everything that was in the In the Realm of Hackers doco as well as stories of young US and British hackers of the late 1980's early 1990's. Assange is given co authorship. The books maincover says;

By Suelette Dreyfus with
Research by Julian Assange

There also is stuff about Mendax's activities in the book. If you want a txt or pdf copy of the book I can send it to you. Here is the book/author's website. They gave the book away for free on the net, now they are charging $99 for a hardback copy.

http://www.underground-book.com/

 

[Macca19]

You are a wealth of knowledge REH I must say!!