- Jun 16, 2012
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We will get smashed in the ruck and around the ground by these two. Are we a chance with Jolly out?
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Wood + Dawes Vs Cox + Naitanui
- Thread starter Mateyman
- Start date
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jmac70
On the porch
Yes we are a chance.
People say this every time we play them. We usually do ok.
Lets be honest hey'll probably lose the ruck contests, but if they compete and are serviceable then I'd be happy. It's not an ideal situation but we can still! I just hope Wood takes this opportunity, will probably be one of his last for the season.
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- #5
It is all about the ground level battle around the stoppages and centre bounce.
In this area WC have often been beaten in 2011, sometimes quite soundly. The ruck dominance should not be a concern if our mids aren't firing.
Where they can impact the match is around the ground, so marking in defence/wing and kicking goals up forward. Also if either gain dominance or go unchallenged at stoppages then generally they can be more damaging clearance players than most of our midfielders.
Honestly though going by past history, losing the ruck battle should not be an issue for Collingwood.
In this area WC have often been beaten in 2011, sometimes quite soundly. The ruck dominance should not be a concern if our mids aren't firing.
Where they can impact the match is around the ground, so marking in defence/wing and kicking goals up forward. Also if either gain dominance or go unchallenged at stoppages then generally they can be more damaging clearance players than most of our midfielders.
Honestly though going by past history, losing the ruck battle should not be an issue for Collingwood.
I'm predicting both Cox and Naitanui to go down early with injury, and Wood will still be crap.
mattys123
Hall of Famer
- Mar 24, 2008
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Yes, we will get smashed in the ruck, but where has that gotten West Coast recently? They league the lead for total hitouts, yet are 12th for contested possessions and 9th for clearances. Pies are 4th for CP and 5th for clearances.
This game will be won in the midfield, but it won't be won in the rucks.
Geelong went into their game over there with only Orren Stephenson (a worse ruck option than Wood) yet they almost won the match.
This game will be won in the midfield, but it won't be won in the rucks.
Geelong went into their game over there with only Orren Stephenson (a worse ruck option than Wood) yet they almost won the match.
Jolly got obliterated by Goldstein last week so Wood is on a hiding to nothing, he gets beat and the vultures come out to bag him, he does ok and Jolly comes in when fit for finals.
I feel for Wood because like Jolly i reckon he is a one out ruckman, he killed it in Brisbane then got dropped.
While Jolly is the incumbant ruck i get annoyed that Wood gets stick for stuff that Jolly does every week.
Jolly is obviously the better ruckman but Wood runs areound in the 2's every week and is expected to come in and perform whenever Jolly needs a rest?
Bullshit! give the guy some continued gametime for a change then make a call.
I feel for Wood because like Jolly i reckon he is a one out ruckman, he killed it in Brisbane then got dropped.
While Jolly is the incumbant ruck i get annoyed that Wood gets stick for stuff that Jolly does every week.
Jolly is obviously the better ruckman but Wood runs areound in the 2's every week and is expected to come in and perform whenever Jolly needs a rest?
Bullshit! give the guy some continued gametime for a change then make a call.
jmac70
On the porch
How do we do this? Surely it is not an option to have Jolly play in the reserves whilst Wood gets game time.
In 2011 we went up against WC without Jolly and L.Brown, it was left to Wood and Dawes to take up the ruck.
Wood and Dawes combined for 19 HOs, compared to Cox and NicNat's 55 HOs.
Yet HOs to advantage were 10 to Collingwood and 17 to West Coast.
Collingwood ended up winning by 10 goals.
All Wood and Dawes will be tasked with is limiting the effectiveness of the WC HOs, and then we will back in our mids to win the game.....as they tend to do of late.
Wood and Dawes combined for 19 HOs, compared to Cox and NicNat's 55 HOs.
Yet HOs to advantage were 10 to Collingwood and 17 to West Coast.
Collingwood ended up winning by 10 goals.
All Wood and Dawes will be tasked with is limiting the effectiveness of the WC HOs, and then we will back in our mids to win the game.....as they tend to do of late.
- Jul 21, 2008
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Maybe if we win this week, give Wood another run next week, maybe even use Jolly as 2nd ruck and up forward while Dawes or Cloke have a rest. Dependent, of course, on a reasonable game from Wood.
jathanas
Premium Platinum
+1 for Wood being in a lose-lose situation here. It's not easy to walk in to the seniors a few times a year and to just switch it on.
Give the guy a proper run and then judge him.
Give the guy a proper run and then judge him.
Wood was up against a kid playing his 3rd game, Billy Longer....yet Longer was able to get 31 HOs to Wood's 32.....you would expect Wood to dominate a kid in the ruck.
When playing the Gold Coast, would was up against another kid T.Hickey (Hickey had never had more than 18 HOs in a game before) yet the HOs were Wood 25 v Hickey 24, and Hickey also took 8 marks around the ground.
Wood, if he wanted to stake a claim for the number 1 ruck spot simply had to dominate the ruck against a couple of kids....he basically broke even with them, not good enough from Cameron.
Jolly cops plenty of sh1t from plenty of supporters most weeks, yet Jolly has had the better of contests with Jacobs, Maric, Bellchambers, Mumford some of the better rucks going.....if Jolly was up against kids like Longer and Hickey you could gaurantee that he wouldn't let them get career high HOs against him.
Wood needs to be banging the door down demanding a game...he is only so so at VFL level, and then when he steps up to AFL he is again so so.
If you want to be a 1s player you need to bang the door down with consistently great games in the VFL, and then take your chance when you get a game in the 1s. Wood has done neither.
the reality is mate that Jolly misses games every year, but only when he is sore and only when he cant get up, it is obvious he struggles now to get up from week to week and when he finally admits he cant do it then poor Wood comes in, and whether he performs or not he is out when Jolly is right, dont know about you but that would shit me big time.
For me i think with continued gametime Wood would become a pretty decent player but playing against spuds on sub standard suburban grounds in the VFL is ok for Mids but rucks are a bit different.
If we are going to talk stats in this game, Wood was rated as the second-best player on the ground by Champion Data, ahead of Gary Ablett (who had 53 possessions). Wood also had 23 touches and kicked a goal.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
We just need to use the Ball Better and Win The Clearnces
Wood destroyed Longer arouind the ground picking up over 100 SC points that game, Hickey took most of his marks floating behind the ball, watch the game again.
Jolly competes against the better ruckmen in the contest ok, some games he fires up and influences around the ground and some games he gets not beaten but destroyed!
VFL form is not a true indication of form, never has been never will be for a team that gets smashed week in week out, IMO stick with Jolly this year, but next year wood needs to be the MAN.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Forget the stats, Wood didn't even try in the GWS game.
Why would things be any different this week in the West Coast game?
Why would things be any different this week in the West Coast game?
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T.Hickey was rated as the Gold Coast's 2nd best player by Champion Data, getting 107 SC points.
T.Hickey was actually torn a new one by Jason Blake the following week....Jason Blake who is not a ruckman won the HOs 28 to 19, and Blake had 144 SC points to Hickey's 66.
J.Blake a spare parts player performed better in the ruck against Hickey than Wood did.
Cox and natainui will go forward after the contest lets hope we win the contested ball and by a shitload!
Longer is a kid in his 3rd game....he is learning where to run and position himself, of course Wood should be able to lose him around the ground. But Cameron wasn't able to dominate a kid in the ruck contests.
A ruck playing a kick behind the ball, isn't that what many are asked to do??
Again, Wood wasn't able to dominate a kid in the ruck....the following week Jason Blake beat Hickey in the ruck more convincingly than Wood did....and Blake aint a ruckman's a-hole.
That is all we need from our ruckman, we dont need our ruckman to be picking up 15-20 disposals.
Part of the reason we get smashed every week is because VFL rucks are able to gain ascendancy for VFL midfields....Wood, if he is an AFL standard ruck should easily win the ruck contests week in week out....he doesn't.
It would be great if Wood could come on, it was part of the grand plan, but unfortunately he simply hasn't shown enough.
- Oct 16, 2008
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Exactly, the WC ruck dominance is overrated. Unless Wood plays an absolute howler, it should have only a minor impact on the outcome.
Stephenson rucked with a broken hand for three quarters too.
Cousin of Daicos
HEY MAGPIE ARMY!
Been saying this since Round 1.
For what it's worth, I think we'll beat West Coast. This team just loves travel too much, and loves being the underdog. If we could find a way to be the underdog, cop media scrutiny every game of the finals, we can probably snag the flag.
For ma boy Taz.
