Woosha's Review

[mak09]

Is he the man for the job.
3 years ago I would have said Yes.
But now I'm starting to doubt his ability.
The thing that frustrates me the most is that he Keeps players that are underperforming for way too long.

Ash Hansen
Chad Fletcher
Brent Staker
Mark Seaby

If I was coach they would all be long gone after the 2007 season.
I would also cut Adam Hunter after this season, but I know woosha will keep him.

 

[Eagle87]

Is he the man for the job.
3 years ago I would have said Yes.
But now I'm starting to doubt his ability.
The thing that frustrates me the most is that he Keeps players that are underperforming for way too long.

Ash Hansen
Chad Fletcher
Brent Staker
Mark Seaby

If I was coach they would all be long gone after the 2007 season.
I would also cut Adam Hunter after this season, but I know woosha will keep him.

No-one would cut Hunter IF he didnt have the chronic shoulder problem. Anyone who saw his one game in the back half a couple of weeks back would realise how bloody good he is. If however his body is buggared then he will retire....

The notion that we should have binned the 4 you name is not based on where they were at the end of 2007. Hansen had an injury plagued year and was only one year removed from being our "lucky charm" in a premiership year. Staker maybe.... but on potential he probably deserved 2008 ..... Seaby was a 23 year old premiership ruckman who showed a lot in Cox's absence and was still quite highly rated.

Chad Fletcher was certainly not great in 2007 but under contract was pretty hard to cut and retained some experience in a side that just saw Cousins, Judd, Chick and Jones leave....

The fact that you demonstrate limited actually knowledge and then question Woosha's ability probably doesnt help your argument.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Is he the man for the job.
3 years ago I would have said Yes.
But now I'm starting to doubt his ability.
The thing that frustrates me the most is that he Keeps players that are underperforming for way too long.

Ash Hansen
Chad Fletcher
Brent Staker
Mark Seaby

If I was coach they would all be long gone after the 2007 season.
I would also cut Adam Hunter after this season, but I know woosha will keep him.

Well i put everything into perspective look at out weakness and stat deficiencies and i have some cause for concerns but mostly im confident we can overcome those issues, other areas we are currently behind in i assess or normial and except that these will change as a given. It all has to be in the contest of the side we put on the park each week. Ultimately we will build our future around a core group of midfielders, that will take time.

I like his two year contract, gives him time and does not lock our club in with Woosha if we do indeed need a complete change. Thats the problem i have with long contracts for players, is that we might end tied up with a player who cant perform to his peak for the whole of that contract, but a club is more than that and players have values beyond thier on field performances, loyalty is an important aspect of team building; Breeds respect, trust in eaches ability and undermining that is not always a good thing, especially for a established coach.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Is woosha not up to it? Or is he just aware of the football cycle, and with his job secure, is taking time to bottom out and develop the youngsters?

People need to realise where the eagles are at with their list and accept that Woosha is on the right track. I'd much rather a genuine push for a premiership than languishing mid-table like the Roos & Crows have for nearly a decade without so much as a grand final appearance.

 

[scooter22]

Is he the man for the job.
3 years ago I would have said Yes.
But now I'm starting to doubt his ability.
The thing that frustrates me the most is that he Keeps players that are underperforming for way too long.

Ash Hansen
Chad Fletcher
Brent Staker
Mark Seaby

If I was coach they would all be long gone after the 2007 season.
I would also cut Adam Hunter after this season, but I know woosha will keep him.

Ash Hansen is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. We need strong bodies like his. Fletcher is an All-Australian - he is no dud. Staker has shown the ability and hopefully is only a matter of time before we see the best of Brent. Seaby is on the list for insurance, if coxy had gone down(and we had no Seaby) then we would be in trouble. All justifyable that they kept their spots.

 

[mak09]

No-one would cut Hunter IF he didnt have the chronic shoulder problem. Anyone who saw his one game in the back half a couple of weeks back would realise how bloody good he is. If however his body is buggared then he will retire....

The notion that we should have binned the 4 you name is not based on where they were at the end of 2007. Hansen had an injury plagued year and was only one year removed from being our "lucky charm" in a premiership year. Staker maybe.... but on potential he probably deserved 2008 ..... Seaby was a 23 year old premiership ruckman who showed a lot in Cox's absence and was still quite highly rated.

Chad Fletcher was certainly not great in 2007 but under contract was pretty hard to cut and retained some experience in a side that just saw Cousins, Judd, Chick and Jones leave....

The fact that you demonstrate limited actually knowledge and then question Woosha's ability probably doesnt help your argument.

I just say what I see.
Hansen-I don't care if his some sort of lucky charm, You can see it that his no good, even when we won the premiership I still felt that he was over-rated, He run's in straight lines and just doesn't and never had the athletic ability need to play in the AFL

Seaby- No No No He is a dud and always has been, His lucky he was playing as a back up cause it would be so easy to find better ruckman.
What does he actual do thats worth Keeping- He get a couple of taps against 2nd tier ruckman and then what does he do- nothing.

Fletcher- I think we all knew where Fletch was going after the 2007 season. We were rebuilding and you would think the most approriate thing to do was retire him- not an easy thing to do, but needed to be done.

Staker- Ok when you are 25 26 and got nothing to show for it- Wouldn't the best thing to do is trade him, we could of got much more then what his worth now.

Hunter- Hunters a tough one, I don't know if there's any reason for keeping a 29 year old with shoulder problems. The way I see it is that unless your an out and out legend of this club, you got to earn the right to be playing AFL when your 30 and above- Hunters not that so I'd tell him time up.

 

[lyall]

If you had of said this in 2007 then sure you could have claimed all the crap you have written. But no hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

I was going to start my own thread on this because I heard today that there will be a massive clean out at the club at the end of the year.

Alot bigger than I was expecting.

As part of the midseason review the club board has okayed the paying out of contracts.

This means contracted guys like Hansen can be moved on, this will obviously have affect on total player payments.

So my understanding is alot of senior players will be moved on.

Wirra will be told to retire I hope this doesn't happen with Wirra
Hunter (retire forced)
Stinga (retire forced)
Fletcher (retire forced)
Hansen (believe he wants to stay in perth so will be delisted if he wont be traded)
Staker will be traded

Younger players under the gun

McNamara (be lucky to survive)
Spanger (be lucky to survive
Butler (think will stay)
Wilks (if Spanger goes he stays)
Schofield (think will stay/could be traded)
McKinley (could be traded)


The younger players have until end of season to change the coaches mind on them.
Not all of them will go.

Rookie's under the pump

Arrowsmith (gone)
Stevenson (I think he will survive I really rate him)
Wilson (time is ticking )
Bedford (will be given another year though he probaly doesn't deserve it)
Cockie (safe as houses)
Davis (safe as houses)

I think one/two rookies will go at most.

Though with such a cleanout of older players we can actually increase our rookie players.

 

[mak09]

If you had of said this in 2007 then sure you could have claimed all the crap you have written. But no hindsight is a wonderful thing

Yeah but I'm not and I'm talking about TODAY.
3 years is a long time in football and when you start getting a horrible win/loss record like the one where building, then question need to be answed.

 

[whichone]

I just say what I see.
Hansen-I don't care if his some sort of lucky charm, You can see it that his no good, even when we won the premiership I still felt that he was over-rated, He run's in straight lines and just doesn't and never had the athletic ability need to play in the AFL

Seaby- No No No He is a dud and always has been, His lucky he was playing as a back up cause it would be so easy to find better ruckman.
What does he actual do thats worth Keeping- He get a couple of taps against 2nd tier ruckman and then what does he do- nothing.

Fletcher- I think we all knew where Fletch was going after the 2007 season. We were rebuilding and you would think the most approriate thing to do was retire him- not an easy thing to do, but needed to be done.

Staker- Ok when you are 25 26 and got nothing to show for it- Wouldn't the best thing to do is trade him, we could of got much more then what his worth now.

Hunter- Hunters a tough one, I don't know if there's any reason for keeping a 29 year old with shoulder problems. The way I see it is that unless your an out and out legend of this club, you got to earn the right to be playing AFL when your 30 and above- Hunters not that so I'd tell him time up.

Huh? In 2007 we finished the H&A season 3rd and probably would have made the grand final had we not been crippled with injuries to Judd, Cousins and Kerr during finals. Would have given Geelong a run for their money too. Also very important to keep him at this point given the post-season loss of Judd, Cousins, Chick, Rojo.

Exactly who did we have to slot in for Hansen had we cut him at the end of 2007? We had a Josh Kennedy who came with plenty of knockers and only a handful of games under his belt. Mitch Brown in his second season, also went down with a season ending injury early in the '08 pre-season. Fair gamble to cut your number 1 CHF and leave it up to two youngsters.

Seaby - well he was widely considered one of the better back up rucks going round at this point. Certainly held his own when resting up forward (not the case anymore though).

Anyone can be a hero with hindsight.

 

[scooter22]

I was going to start my own thread on this because I heard today that there will be a massive clean out at the club at the end of the year.

Wirra will be told to retire I hope this doesn't happen with Wirra
Hunter (retire forced)
Stinga (retire forced)
Fletcher (retire forced)
Hansen (believe he wants to stay in perth so will be delisted if he wont be traded)
Staker will be traded
McNamara (be lucky to survive)
Spanger (be lucky to survive
Butler (think will stay)
Wilks (if Spanger goes he stays)
Schofield (think will stay/could be traded)
McKinley (could be traded)



Arrowsmith (gone)
Stevenson (I think he will survive I really rate him)
Wilson (time is ticking )
Bedford (will be given another year though he probaly doesn't deserve it)
Cockie (safe as houses)
Davis (safe as houses)

I think one/two rookies will go at most.

Though with such a cleanout of older players we can actually increase our rookie players.

With such a weak draft it is an interesting decision to delist so many. I believe we will hunt early picks e.g. Schofield + McKinley for a first rounder. If not it is a strange decision.

Also from what i have heard of Arrowsmith, he is the small forward we need. He is a much better option than Bedford. It is a better idea to get rid of bedford and keep arrowsmith. thoughts?

 

[mak09]

Exactly who did we have to slot in for Hansen had we cut him at the end of 2007? We had a Josh Kennedy who came with plenty of knockers and only a handful of games under his belt. Mitch Brown in his second season, also went down with a season ending injury early in the '08 pre-season. Fair gamble to cut your number 1 CHF and leave it up to two youngsters.

Anyone can be a hero with hindsight.

So in the end it comes down to the cr*p recruiting.
Why didn't we ever get a quality key forward under Woosha.

The last time we had one it was Scott Cummings in 99.
We basically were stuck with Ash Hansen- but having said that I never like the way he played- you can think differently but all I can say is that he wasn't the right men for the key position forward role.

 

[purple hater]

I just say what I see.
Hansen-I don't care if his some sort of lucky charm, You can see it that his no good, even when we won the premiership I still felt that he was over-rated, He run's in straight lines and just doesn't and never had the athletic ability need to play in the AFL

May be a fair enough assessment. However, in 2008 his continual run of injuries meant we actually didn't know if he had reached his full potential. Plus Kennedy has also been injury prone so far in his young career. Whats wrong with having a back up?

Seaby- No No No He is a dud and always has been, His lucky he was playing as a back up cause it would be so easy to find better ruckman.
What does he actual do thats worth Keeping- He get a couple of taps against 2nd tier ruckman and then what does he do- nothing.

No, he has shown a lot of potential. He is not a bad ruckman, lacking somewhat around the ground, but has shown he can take a mark and kick a goal when put in the goal square in the past. TBH, I dont know what happened to him over the last couple of years.

He was put up for trade remember, and not many were interested. Again, if Cox did an ACL (nothing to see here injury Gods,) during the preseason, we would have been stuffed. A whole season with no recognised ruckman, wouldn't the fans be screaming about list management then?!

Fletcher- I think we all knew where Fletch was going after the 2007 season. We were rebuilding and you would think the most approriate thing to do was retire him- not an easy thing to do, but needed to be done.

He is on the veterans list, and offered some experience in an area we had lost experienced players in the last two years. Who cares? He is currently not interfering with the next generation getting a game so I really dont see this as a problem.

Staker- Ok when you are 25 26 and got nothing to show for it- Wouldn't the best thing to do is trade him, we could of got much more then what his worth now.

Maybe we should have traded him. Tough one, so much potential, so little consistency.

Hunter- Hunters a tough one, I don't know if there's any reason for keeping a 29 year old with shoulder problems. The way I see it is that unless your an out and out legend of this club, you got to earn the right to be playing AFL when your 30 and above- Hunters not that so I'd tell him time up.

He only turned 28 a couple of weeks ago. He is a loyal player and deserves a chance to get his injuries right before being thrown to the curb.

As a club, you have to show some faith sometimes and show some loyalty to your players. You cant expect players to be loyal to the club if it is not reciprocated.

 

[whichone]

So in the end it comes down to the cr*p recruiting.
Why didn't we ever get a quality key forward under Woosha.

The last time we had one it was Scott Cummings in 99.
We basically were stuck with Ash Hansen- but having said that I never like the way he played- you can think differently but all I can say is that he wasn't the right men for the key position forward role.

You make it sound so easy to get a quality key forward. FWIW I think Hansen is a hack too (nowadays, he used to play his role well), but to chop him post 2007 would have been a bad move IMO.

 

[WCE57]

I so hope you are wrong, Royal Eagle. So there will be up to 10 changes in the squad. We pay out huge money. And we trade McKinley, Schofield and Staker. Delist McNamara and Sangher. And we keep Bedford and delist Arrowsmith. Crazy stuff. Woosha would be lucky to survive next year.

 

[lewigie]

Who did you hear this off Royal Eagle?

Not that I'm questioning you, just wondering

 

[swannies]

I thought we'd be done with these threads after Worsfold re-signed. Ah well, it's going to be a really long off-season!

 

[lewigie]

You're on a bit early aren't you swannies?

 

[swannies]

You're on a bit early aren't you swannies?

Yep, but I'm frightened I'll go to sleep in my chair with all this rivetting discussion, so got in early!

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

I so hope you are wrong, Royal Eagle. So there will be up to 10 changes in the squad. We pay out huge money. And we trade McKinley, Schofield and Staker. Delist McNamara and Sangher. And we keep Bedford and delist Arrowsmith. Crazy stuff. Woosha would be lucky to survive next year.

I hope Im wrong too.

With those younger guys I mentioned doesn't mean they all go, there the ones I am told are under the most pressure.

As for the Rookies with older guys going means more spots open up.

Arrowsmith isn't good enough for next level, so not a great loss if he goes.

I think it will end up 8 changes to the list two rookie upgrades and 6 picks in national draft.

Im more worried about paying out huge money, means we could go close to the cap. Though you would hope they factor that in.

 

[WCE57]

I hope Im wrong too.

With those younger guys I mentioned doesn't mean they all go, there the ones I am told are under the most pressure.

As for the Rookies with older guys going means more spots open up.

Arrowsmith isn't good enough for next level, so not a great loss if he goes.

I think it will end up 8 changes to the list two rookie upgrades and 6 picks in national draft.

Im more worried about paying out huge money, means we could go close to the cap. Though you would hope they factor that in.

But Arrowsmith has shown much more than Bedford, but Bedford gets another year. We keep Seaby on the list. Hansen and Staker both have 2 years to go on their contracts. Stinga has one more year. We get rid of Wirra. While McKinley has weakness in his game, he is our 2nd goal kicker. And we struggle to kick goals and we are going to trade him

8 + changes means bottom 4 in 2010. I hope I'm wrong. Not have go at you Royal. I just can't see the positives in this. If we are close to the cap, we can not trade for big names, it would be a whole lot of kids.

 

[Eagle87]

Yeah but I'm not and I'm talking about TODAY.
3 years is a long time in football and when you start getting a horrible win/loss record like the one where building, then question need to be answed.

WTF are you on about?

YOU said that at the end of 2007 you would have got rid of those 4 players named. When called on that, because your logic was illogical, you switch to "...but I'm not and I'm talking about TODAY"....

Sometimes, when you have no idea, its best just to STFU.

 

[tesseract]

Yeah but I'm not and I'm talking about TODAY.
3 years is a long time in football and when you start getting a horrible win/loss record like the one where building, then question need to be answed.

Woosha can't come out and say we're tanking now can he. We're rebuilding a club that at the end of 2007 had it's guts ripped out from it, what are you expecting from Woosha and what are your expectations for the club in the situation we're in, what would you have done differently?

Rebuilding by way of bottoming out and taking early draft picks is the best and most logical way of rebuilding for future success. Not only do I say that; but so do all the other teams management, as they use it to varying degrees according to their own situation.

Win/Loss ratio means nothing when rebuilding. It's completely irrelevant to the team. Maybe not so to certain individuals of the club though.
I'd go as far as saying, and make a case for; a bad win/loss ratio is a good thing when rebuilding a club. It'll give us all the young talent from the draft required to build a successful team for the future.

 

[bunsen burner]

Yeah but I'm not and I'm talking about TODAY.
3 years is a long time in football and when you start getting a horrible win/loss record like the one where building, then question need to be answed.

Why does our current win/loss record matter? Obviously you don't like it and clearly would prefer not to have it.

1. Poor win/loss record + ebert + selwood + naita + shuey + swift + 1 or 2 top 5 picks

or

2. Decent win/loss record + a smaller amount of other players at higher draft positions

Which one would you prefer?

You're yet another one who wants both. You cannot have both so which one is that you would prefer?

People like you forever moan and whine that we are playing bad footy yet at the same time get all excited about our future. Are you people not smart enough to realise that that bad footy gets us that optimistic future? Or do you sort of know and just ignore it because you're so weak you just can't face the truth?

You need to man up and stop looking at irrelevant things like win/loss ratios and short term wins. Tough times don't last, tough people do.

 

[W3llsy]

So in the end it comes down to the cr*p recruiting.
Why didn't we ever get a quality key forward under Woosha.

The last time we had one it was Scott Cummings in 99.
We basically were stuck with Ash Hansen- but having said that I never like the way he played- you can think differently but all I can say is that he wasn't the right men for the key position forward role.

Who else would you have taken? Who has turned out a decent key forward from the same 2001 National draft?

Steve Johnson (unconventional, not really CHF material)
Brad Miller (is he better than Hansen? No)
Damon White (is he better than Hansen? No)

-------------

The fact is, talented forwards are rare. We needed a CHF, and IMO, took about the best available that year. I dont believe Miller or White are better than Hansen.

The other options were Johnson, who isnt KP though in hindsight would have been a great pickup. He went at pick 24. We would have had to sacrifice Judd, Sampi or Seaby to have a crack at him. They too were addressing areas of deficiency at our club. Imagine if we didnt get Judd, and Sampi did some good things for us despite never reaching his potential. We needed a ruckman and Seaby was the only one on offer in the draft.