Worst on Ground vs Port

[Timmy from Thomastown]

watching port on the tv last week fanning actually did quite well

Some players take time. I hope he proves us all wrong and gets redrafted in the AFL. On the one hand we didnt really give him a fair go, but on the other hand he was REALLY BAD last year....

 

[toommy]

I don't disagree with this, I think though the ruckmen in the past draft left a lot to be desired. Add to this the fact that 80% of rucks drafted won't be ready to play year 1 anyway. I think not getting a ruckman at all (apart from Bryan) in both rookie and national draft was a bit of a puzzling decision.

but we have three ready to go ruckmen not to many teams have that, granted richards is under performing but look at him as a first year ruckman because this is the first year he has strung games together so think of him as your rookie ruckman learning the ropes he would be cut some slack if he was.so malthouse is going to play him regardless.now if fraser wasn't carrying some sort of injury and playing like he should we would be going ok. remember brendon lade was last years all australian and the wet is his game he would have man handled anyone in those conditions

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

but we have three ready to go ruckmen not to many teams have that,

Three is not enough. I dont knwo what your definition of ready-to-go is - breathing and wearing football boots I suspect. Fraser had a preseason knee operation, Richards has suffered from seven years of mediocrity, and Bryan could not get a game for Carlton last year. We dont have enough depth, and we dont have enough quality. I could forgive one sin, but not both. Failing having an extra quality ruckman, the least we could have had another experienced back-up or a draftee for the future. But we havent. Its unforgiveable.

 

[MarkT]

I’d be happy with 3 real ruckmen if Fraser wasn’t one of them even if 1 of them was 18 years old and a year or two off senior footy. I’d only be playing 1 top line tap ruckman at any time with Fraser as the relief and Rocca in reserve. If the 3 first ruck options all got injured you’d just have to wear that.

The problem is none of our ruck options have ever actually consistently won in the ruck. Richards was average at VFL level last year when he returned and has shown nothing this year. Bryan is a bit of an unknown quantity. I hope he comes out and has a good game which without Hille he may well do. At least it would give us something to work with.

Watching Saturday’s game just proved to me again how much we miss for not having a decent ruckman. A few times we cleared the middle quickly we either kicked goals or had very realistic chaces to kick goals. When Port cleared we had to come from half back via the Cape. We then over possessed the ball on a wet day and if we didn’t turn it over we generally had shots from angles. We just don’t have the skills or the pace to play that game. Watching Burns tear Richmond apart in the second half when he was able to read our taps was like having all my birthdays at once. I dare say things may have been different had Symonds had a pre season and a couple of games under his belt.

 

[toommy]

Three is not enough. I dont knwo what your definition of ready-to-go is - breathing and wearing football boots I suspect. Fraser had a preseason knee operation, Richards has suffered from seven years of mediocrity, and Bryan could not get a game for Carlton last year. We dont have enough depth, and we dont have enough quality. I could forgive one sin, but not both. Failing having an extra quality ruckman, the least we could have had another experienced back-up or a draftee for the future. But we havent. Its unforgiveable.

so we were to trade off some picks in the super draft to get a third or forth string ruckman from another club because thats all clubs let go for a third round selection in most cases or pick up a rookie ruckman which doesn't help us in tomorrows game and we have drafted ruckman in the past hall at pick 35 in 2003 and fanning on the rookie list both didn't come up

 

[MarkT]

It is one thing to draft ruckmen (Richards, Hall, Fanning) or trade for them (McKee) it is quite another thing to actually know what you need in a ruckman and make a quality judgement. Ditto mids. We don’t lack in the midfield because we haven’t drafted or traded for them. We lack because those that make the judgements have lacked the ability to get it right. We passed up Everitt among others. I couldn’t care less if he was a complete DH.

 

[toommy]

It is one thing to draft ruckmen (Richards, Hall, Fanning) or trade for them (McKee) it is quite another thing to actually know what you need in a ruckman and make a quality judgement. Ditto mids. We don’t lack in the midfield because we haven’t drafted or traded for them. We lack because those that make the judgements have lacked the ability to get it right. We passed up Everitt among others. I couldn’t care less if he was a complete DH.

now everitt was traded to hawthorn in 2002 for pick 6 which was on traded to port for barry brooks and port picked salopek now we had just lost a grand final by less than 2 goals had pick 21 as our first now how would have you got him to collingwood.and let me add that any player that we get from another club in a trade is not going to be flash because teams won't trade a top liner to the pies balmey has said that teams won't even deal with the pies freo was the last but we gave up paul williams and pick 3

 

[MarkT]

now everitt was traded to hawthorn in 2002 for pick 6 which was on traded to port for barry brooks and port picked salopek now we had just lost a grand final by less than 2 goals had pick 21 as our first now how would have you got him to collingwood.and let me add that any player that we get from another club in a trade is not going to be flash because teams won't trade a top liner to the pies balmey has said that teams won't even deal with the pies freo was the last but we gave up paul williams and pick 3

First of all we had an opportunity prior to that but they ended up keeping him. Forgetting that unproven snippet, it would have required some fancy footwork but fundamentally we erred with Woewodin who was another slow mid so add that pick back into the mix. At the end of 2002 we had a few players we stagnated in the VFL for a year and then delisted. Again we didn’t maximise returns like a Sheedy/Essendon would. Incremental draft upgrades. How about throwing McGough into the mix. Jarrad Molloy? Steve McKee? Maybe get something for Freeborn/Steinfort? Scotland was obviously not on the MM hit parade but had just played in a finals series. The point is there are always options and we always have excuses.

As for teams not dealing with the Pies that is an excuse like all the excuse we make. If we offer more than other we’ll get the deal done.

PS we didn’t give up Paul Williams in any Freo trade. We gave up Williams for some draft picks. Separately we gave up those draft picks for Clement and Holland. Two separate trade deals for individual analysis.

 

[toommy]

First of all we had an opportunity prior to that but they ended up keeping him. Forgetting that unproven snippet, it would have required some fancy footwork but fundamentally we erred with Woewodin who was another slow mid so add that pick back into the mix. At the end of 2002 we had a few players we stagnated in the VFL for a year and then delisted. Again we didn’t maximise returns like a Sheedy/Essendon would. Incremental draft upgrades. How about throwing McGough into the mix. Jarrad Molloy? Steve McKee? Maybe get something for Freeborn/Steinfort? Scotland was obviously not on the MM hit parade but had just played in a finals series. The point is there are always options and we always have excuses.

As for teams not dealing with the Pies that is an excuse like all the excuse we make. If we offer more than other we’ll get the deal done.

PS we didn’t give up Paul Williams in any Freo trade. We gave up Williams for some draft picks. Separately we gave up those draft picks for Clement and Holland. Two separate trade deals for individual analysis.

pick 3 we got in the williams trade then on traded picks 3 and 35 for clement and holland regardless it still cost us top 5 pick and an elite player. saints would have laughed in your face if you offered that lot.i know i would have.now i'm st kilda give me a deal

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

so we were to trade off some picks in the super draft to get a third or forth string ruckman from another club because thats all clubs let go for a third round selection in most cases or pick up a rookie ruckman which doesn't help us in tomorrows game and we have drafted ruckman in the past hall at pick 35 in 2003 and fanning on the rookie list both didn't come up

Its not just this year, we've been overlooking rucks for years, both at the trade table and in the draft

But to discuss this year...............

1. We took a massive punt on Chris Dawes when we had already drafted two key position players. No disrespect to Dawes but for list balance we should have targeted a ruck with pick 28
2. We dont have a tall player on our rookie list. We should have passed on McAffer and drafted a ruckman. For every David Fanning who comes through the rookie list, theres a Dean Cox.

 

[toommy]

Its not just this year, we've been overlooking rucks for years, both at the trade table and in the draft

But to discuss this year...............

1. We took a massive punt on Chris Dawes when we had already drafted two key position players. No disrespect to Dawes but for list balance we should have targeted a ruck with pick 28
2. We dont have a tall player on our rookie list. We should have passed on McAffer and drafted a ruckman. For every David Fanning who comes through the rookie list, theres a Dean Cox.

but what you have to understand is how our recuiting staff have rated the draft now you are saying we should have used pick 28.so if the next best ruckman in the draft we are rating at pick 50 why use pick 28 on him the next best i would think.but the rookie draft is an option but there are alot more fannings out there at that stage of the draft than a cox.