Would we take Gibbs ??

[Blues_Man]

If he was available come our first round pick ...would we take him ...or would we select a KPP ???
Mojo...interesting to hear your take on this

 

[jo172]

Sorry for butting in but the name in the thread title intrigued me.

Now i'm not suggesting either Sellars or Bryce is that good but IMHO it is a theoretical choice between Judd and Riedwvolt, who would you pick?

 

[Waite_30]

Sorry for butting in but the name in the thread title intrigued me.

Now i'm not suggesting either Sellars or Bryce is that good but IMHO it is a theoretical choice between Judd and Riedwvolt, who would you pick?

Judd anyday but for Carlton id tale Riewoltd so Sellars.

 

[dirk pitt]

If he was available come our first round pick ...would we take him ...or would we select a KPP ???
Mojo...interesting to hear your take on this

On the one hand he might be a handy replacement for Matty Lappin.

On the other hand this year's KPPs sound like the sort that only come around every 5 years or so and our backline could still use a CHB.

Much will depend on where we finish methinks.

 

[blues76]

from all reports, gibbs in a heartbeat

 

[HBF]

Toss up between Hansen and Gibbs. Get a very good KPP or a very good midfielder. Mojo would tell you Hansen, as he has him ranked at #1 already. You've also got the homesickness thing to deal with with Gibbs.

If I had to choose, i'd take Hansen - just!!

 

[gandaal]

This is a very odd topic just after round 1. Some of you seem to be implying that we're likely wooden spooners this year which is a bit disappointing. I'd be pretty happy if we pick him up because I think our midfielder desperately needs another injection of class and we can live without another KP but that's assuming that we're even going to finish bottom five and actually get a chance at the five Mojo has indicated are the cream of the crop. In the end we'll take him if our recruiters think he is the best player available when we use our first pick, simple as that.

 

[MeeSo]

Offer our pick to Adelaide for Meesen + Douglas + their first rounder.

 

[Blues_Man]

This is a very odd topic just after round 1. Some of you seem to be implying that we're likely wooden spooners this year which is a bit disappointing. I'd be pretty happy if we pick him up because I think our midfielder desperately needs another injection of class and we can live without another KP but that's assuming that we're even going to finish bottom five and actually get a chance at the five Mojo has indicated are the cream of the crop. In the end we'll take him if our recruiters think he is the best player available when we use our first pick, simple as that.

who is implying we will be wooden spooners ????? ..are you implying that Gibbs will go number 1 ????

so if your implications are that Gibbs goes number one and you say you'd be happy to pick him up then that translates to you being happy we finished last.

see what happens when you assume stuff

PS : I think a bottom 5 finish is well on the cards at this point in time

 

[gandaal]

who is implying we will be wooden spooners ????? ..are you implying that Gibbs will go number 1 ????

so if your implications are that Gibbs goes number one and you say you'd be happy to pick him up then that translates to you being happy we finished last.

see what happens when you assume stuff

PS : I think a bottom 5 finish is well on the cards at this point in time

You don't think that a topic implying that we might have a choice between the top Kpps and Gibbs doesn't have a faint tone of defeatism? The only way we'd have a choice like that is if we finish 14th to 16th which is a pretty lowly place to be and I think our club can easily do better than that.

Have some pride man, the seasons barely started.

And before anyone says anything, yes I know we just finished round 3. It was a typo.

 

[cong8]

Sorry for butting in but the name in the thread title intrigued me.

Now i'm not suggesting either Sellars or Bryce is that good but IMHO it is a theoretical choice between Judd and Riedwvolt, who would you pick?

reidwoldt is a very good KPP player though I dont think he is damaging enough - therefore I would take the 'judd' option. However, if the young tall was a 'kozitzichke' (without being injury prone of course), then I'd take the KPP option.

Of course, one would be happy with pickng up a player of reidwoldts quality though

 

[cong8]

You don't think that a topic implying that we might have a choice between the top Kpps and Gibbs doesn't have a faint tone of defeatism? The only way we'd have a choice like that is if we finish 14th to 16th which is a pretty lowly place to be and I think our club can easily do better than that.

Have some pride man, the seasons barely started.

And before anyone says anything, yes I know we just finished round 3. It was a typo.

we dont have to finish bottom 5 to get a top 5 draft pick - one can always trade into a pick - particularly if you are willing to pay the price asked - ie player+2nd round pick for top 5 pick might be one approach

 

[audas]

Stop posting in this thread. It is sooooooooo ridiculous.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Lachlan Hansen !!!

We Need A Chb For Ffs !!!

 

[bibi01]

IMO too early to make a call on this, he certinly would be highly considered

we need to see how gibbs goes this year and how we go this year, how our kids develop and where they are at.
we need to see what players retire and delisted and what trades eventuate
and see who is available when it is our pick.

then we can make a call.

 

[Jeremias]

Stop posting in this thread. It is sooooooooo ridiculous.

dont you think that there is a little bit of a hypocracy in your response, audas. this is a dicussion board where people can post what they want. there is nothing wrong or false with this thread and the topic makes for interesting discussion. if you do not like topic or find it to be a little to intellectual for you, then ******** off and dont post anything at all.

in response to the question posed in this thread, i think it is too early to tell who we would/should pick. its round 3 and we have no idea where we will finish on the ladder, nor do we have any idea what sort of trades we will be involved in come trade week. however, in saying that, if gibbs is still available come our first pick, i would take him-we have plenty of young kpp prospects, and our midfield, whilst undeniably improving, is still lacking in depth and really good genuine midfielders. so why not pick the best we can when and if we can?

 

[Sticks 4]

From what I've seen of the lad playing for the bays we would definitely be interested in him. As would 15 other clubs! He is potentially a gun. If he's available at our first pick we should seriously consider him

 

[SurreyBlue]

No matter where your pick is, you should always take "best available".
Anything else is just looking for trouble.

 

[mojo31]

If he was available come our first round pick ...would we take him ...or would we select a KPP ???
Mojo...interesting to hear your take on this

If we had pick 1 I would not take him. I would prefer Lachlan Hansen or Mitch Thorp and even James Sellar. Gumbleton is the other 1 but he is fairly similar to Josh Kennedy (but even better).
If we did not have Waite and Fev then I would consider him but with Fev seeming to have turned his attitude around and being only 25 and likely to play in his 30s with his lack of wear and tear he will take FF and Waite as a leadup tall flanker with a contested marking CHF needed to do the hard stuff. That roles falls to Kennedy in the future. Another similar type is fine but hardly the most pressing need we have.

Hansen at 195 and 92kgs and playing CHB and can play CHF. 17 years of age and played U18s last year and played on some of the gun forwards picked last year already (and beaten them). He is picked and plays round 1 in his first year. AFL ready talent wise and body wise. Bigger than Waite, Thornton are now even though he is only 17. As athletic as Waite but a bigger frame and taller a better kick and decison maker. Plus he is a better mark than Jarred. Thats how good he is.
Thorp is an athletic freak who has great speed and leap and has genuine height and can play anywhere on the ground.
Sellar is up to 197cms now and looks like he will play ruck at AFL level and push forward and kick goals as well. We could use him as well.

Gibbs is a bit like a James Hird. Not really a KPP and not really a pure midfielder. Just is smart and finds the ball a lot. Hird is great at winning clearances though and not sure Bryce has shown that yet. I would see Bryce as a wing who plays on the half forward flank sometimes and rotates between the 2 positions (like Embley does). He has great skills and is a bottom aged kid who has just turned 17.
The issue I have with him is that he looked the same a while ago. Same height and body type and overall talent. So is he progressing? Is he a 16 uear old trapped inside a 20 year old body last year and is not coming along. Will he be the basically the same in 3 years time while other kids are improving?

I have a picture of Mitch Clark when he played U15s for WA a number of years ago. He is standing next to a fairly short Aboriginal player. Might be 8 to 10cms taller than him. Mitch looks 85 plus kgs in it and maybe 196/7 cms tall. The other bloke looks 188 and 75kgs.

The other player was Lance Franklin. Even though older than Mitch was he was a lot shorter and less developed body wise. Now fast forward to the 2004 draft and Buddy was 196cms and high 80 kgs and Clark was drafted last year at 198cms and 91kgs. So Franklin had really filled out the 2 years before that.
Clark had been his same size basically since he was 14 or 15 and maybe his gun reputation was based early on more so on his freakish early physical development rather than freakish talent. So at the U16s he dominated with Deledio but last year against bigger opponenets in the U18s he has the gap closed or been caught. I wonder if the "playing senior football at 16" stuff written about Gibbs is a similar sort of thing.

Hurn played senior football in 2004 and it was expected he would be a gun in 2005. However he did not really develop and was solid rather than spectacular at the U18s and was a half back flanker. Never played midfield and was basically the same player in 2005 as he was the year before.
I think he will be a good player in the AFL when he gets fitter but sometimes it is not where they are at prior to the draft that counts but how they have improved all year.
Dale Thomas was someone who improved a lot towards the end of the year as an example.

Gibbs would help us out a lot of that I have no doubt. But you add Hansen or Thorp to our back line and give them 2 pre seasons and 30 or 40 games to gain experience and you get a 20 year old KPP defender who can move forward if needed and take on the power forwards and match them for talent, athleticism and set up play back there for 10 plus years.

Look at it this way. How many talls will we need in 5 years time on an AFL ground? 1 good ruck and 1 pinch hitter. 2 talls forwards and 2 tall backs and then a whole lot of utility types to fill in the holes and then the rest are runners. So thats 5 to 6 talls and the rest midfile types. So 1 top quality tall will have more of an influence than 1 runner.

1/6 > 1/16 looking at it that way. We need 4 or 5 runners into our team and maybe 1 gun defender. The way the game is going its not 3 great starting mids who win it but 8 to 10 that count. Judd helps WC but its Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Embley,Stenglein, Fletcher etc that are more of a problem than Judd.

2 very good runners > 1 gun runner with so many roatations these days.

Same for the Dogs with so many options through there.

 

[mojo31]

This is what I wrote on them a few months ago (before seeing them this year). The order is where I would have them right now.

1) Lachlan Hansen

Key Position player

195cms and 84kgs
17/8/88
Gippsland Power (TAC)

Tall key position player who is a very good mover. Played CHF early in the TAC and moved back to CHB for the 2nd half of last year. Dominated his opponents and marked everything that came his way. Skinny still but wont shirk the issue. Freak at his age and size. Best overall mark I have ever seen for his age. Superb judge of the flight of the ball and has a first class attack on everything in the air. Rarely out bodied even though he is still skinny. Beat stronger opponents in the TAC with superior body positioning and judgement.
Sometimes funny watching him anticipate the kick into the forward line quicker than his opponent when playing as a defender. Would be off and running before his opponent had even moved and take an easy uncontested mark from a opposition kick. Was the “wall” when playing at CHB.

Will likely play forward in 2006 and see how he develops. Shown enough to suggest he can play both ends and become a dominant KPP capable of playing anywhere in the 4 key posts if required.
As he fills out will likely change his style a little and use his body more and more rather than standing off his opponent a few meters and using superior anticipation and leap and body positioning to beat the opponent.
That is not to say he is an outside player at all. He just understand his game and realises that there is no point to getting into a wrestling match against some players who are much heavier and stronger than he was in 2005. Sort of like Dustin Fletchers style. Who does not do well in wrestling contests and gets slaughtered against bigger stronger opponents when caught out in that way (Sav Rocca and J Brown come to mind who seem to beat him to the point where Sheedy won’t play him on them now). The difference is that Hansen is 16 and will be filling out and won’t have to play that way in a few years.

Runs a very high beep test and has very good endurance, speed, and is a freak athletic package for his size. Showed his class at the U18 Championships despite being a year younger and looked up to speed and class at CHB. Should be dominant this year in the TAC and at the U18s and show what he is made of at CHF.

Got better and better as the season went on and was taking a lot of contested marks and getting a lot of the ball in the last few games of the TAC finals. A quite capable ruckman as well who got a number of hit outs and its not inconceivable that he will grow quite a bit more and develop into a ruck in time. He can tap to advantage and has a very big leap. A player who started out last year as an athletic tall who was struggling a bit and ended it as a dominant key backman who got more and more involved in the play and get stronger and more capable of controlling the corridor. Plays the game like Chad Cornes back there peeling off and taking strong marks. But has the added advantage of being able to play tight as well when needed but will still be prepared to back himself in to win the ball. Has all the instincts of a gun forward but needed to round out his development by playing as an attacking defender in 2005 and now is ready for a move forward for the upcoming season.

He is 92kgs now by the way.


2) Mitchell Thorp

Key position player

25/12/88
195cms and 84kgs
Northern Bombers, Tasmania

Explosive key position player from Tasmania. Fast and very mobile and has agility and running ability. Played all over the place and shown himself to be versatile and basically up to all the roles he has been given.
That includes being switched from full back to full forward in an U18 Championships game and having the poise and temprement to handle it.

Takes a big mark in pack situations and also in 1 on 1. Good kick for goal and in general play and has fine skills. No real weaknesses in his game and could develop in any of the 4 key positions down the spine. Reads the play well and is not often caught being out of position. An athlete who has football smarts and skill. Therefore is the complete package.

We are talking about Chris Tarrant levels of athleticism when considering Thorp. Add to that a far superior kick and especially for goal and likely extra height, versatility and barely 17 and we have a huge prospect.

Moved him from 4 to 3 in the rnakings and does seem that he is195 now after 2 differnet people told me he was. I think he could be the overall best athlete out of the upcoming draft for his size. Has real burst speed to get out on his own on the lead or shut a player down quickly when playing as a defender. Can really take a huge leap and has very good endurance. Basically a Nick Riewoldt type of player with that same speed and endurance and leap that he has. Not proven to be quite in that class yet but should do so this year and stamp himself as a genuine versatile gun tall. Not sure where his best position is and have seen him dominate up forward and take a number of huge pack marks and kick a bag of goals as well as play as a defender. Taking all the kick outs and looking very composed and directing traffic and showing leadership. Then moves around like a wing man and picks the ball up off the ground like a midfielder with clean hands and runs and carries the ball. So really the club who gets him is getting a player who can play anywhere on the ground and develop him how they want. He has everything that is needed to be a quality player with real flair and match winning ability.

3) Scott Gumbleton

Centre half forward

195cms and 87 kgs
3/8/88
Peel Thunder (WA)

Very strong contested mark and would think that he is the best exponent of that out of all the kids available in the next draft.
Skinny but is surprisingly strong and powerful and uses his body so well as a forward. A physical player who plays the corridor and has presence on the field.
Demands the ball and likes to play in front and at his size and possessing a good leap he is hard to stop once he does take front position.
Presents well and seems to have a good tank and a fine work ethic. Very good converter in front of goal and has a sound kicking technique and overall is a very good kick.
Athletic rather than bulky but has a big frame and will not have a problem putting on the size required to become a key position player in the AFL.
Not really seen him play down back and it is as a centre half forward that he will be judged and play most of his career it seems.
Showed his talent at the U18s Champs where he was as good as any big man on the ground even though he was a year younger than most of them. Good enough to keep Josh Kennedy out of the Key forward position for WA in the recent U18 Championships.
Has very good agility and covers a lot of ground but does his best work in contested situations rather than taking easy marks out wide.

Would liken him to Josh Kennedy only more athletic and an even better mark. Same work rate, physicality and competitiveness and around the same size even though he is 1 year younger. Looked superb at the U16 Championships in 2004 and dominated at that level. Disposals, contested marks and won the hard ball on the ground as well. Played very well in the WAFL and kicked a lot of goals and again showed how good a mark he was and his fierce his attack on the ball was. Good second efforts and is good at winning the ball on the ground and does not fumble when doing so.
Anybody who saw him at the 2005 U18 Championships saw him play below his best. He has an injury to his arm and he was not comfortable in his marking or handling of the ball. Presented and worked but his normally sure ball handling was not quite there. He will be better this year when fully fit and show why he is the best key forward available in the draft. Others might be slightly in front as far as overall players but he is the safest best for a key forward out of anyone.

4) James Sellar

Ruck/Key forward

195cms and 86kgs
24/3/89
Glenelg

South Australian player who was named best player at the U16 Championships.
Very smooth and moves like a key position player. Very high work rate and involves himself in the play. Contests well around the ground and is capable of playing a key position up forward. Good skills and does not any of the awkwardness of most ruckmen in dropping the ball from hand to foot.
Plays like a ruck but moves like a key position. Athletic and is in good in contested situations. Has a fine touch by hand in directing the ball down in the ruck and a good awareness of how to use his body and where to deliver to his midfielders.

Wiry frame, not bulky but quite strong and should not have problems putting on weight. Big leap, good speed and a natural athlete. Does not lack aggression and hardness at the ball. Pretty reasonable below his feet. The complete package.
He directs his taps well to his midfielders and you can see he is natural with what he is doing. Capable of doing it with either hand and also something that a lot of ruck cannot do in winning his own ball on the ground. Tapping it down and recovering quickly and roving it and getting a quick handball off.

The worry will be his height. Will he grow the 3 or 4 cms he needs to be a full time ruck at AFL level or stay at that in between size he is now. If he does grow a lot then he moves right up onto number 1 contention. He could make it as a key position forward if he does not as he is athletic enough but prefer him in the ruck roaming around the ground. The new ruck rules seem to be favouring the giants and has to be a question mark on Sellar that will not be resolved until draft camp and official testing.

If he does grow to close to 2 meters then Sellar is looking at a more physical and athletic version of Josh Fraser. Better in contested situations and a more robust body and having more speed. Likely be able to handle the rigours of AFL better than Fraser has so far in his career.
I believe his rating will be determined by the draft camp results on his height and reach. I don’t think he will slip out of the top 5 but whether he goes at 5 or 1 will be determined by how much he grows. As a ruck you could not hope for anyone more athletic who can also play tall and take a big mark and read the play.

Is 197cms now and playing seniors in the SANFL.


5) Bryce Gibbs

Utility/wing

187cms and 78kgs
15/3/89
Glenelg (SA)

Has some athletic ability but is more a natural footballer rather than an athlete. Quick over the ground but not lightning. Good build and superb kicking skills and ability to read the play and find space. Playing senior football in the SANFL for Glenelg last year. As well as played the U16 Championships in 2004 and 2005 for South Australia.

Half forward flanker and midfielder who will kick goals and play all over the ground. Better in 1 on 1 contests and in open spaces rather than in congestion in packs. Such a smooth mover he appears to not be quick but is football quick with anticipation. Does everything so easily that appears to not be at 100%. The “Mark Waugh” of next years draft with his grace and nonchalance.
Absolute lock in cant miss selection for anyone who nabs him. Not sure he will become a bona fide pure midfielder but as a creative player who will kick goals and cut teams apart if given space and time.
Been tagged in the SANFL and shown himself to be mentally and physically up to that challenge. Niggling tactics don’t seem to bother him and regardless of the game situation will run and create an option.
Would like to see more tackling from him and a little bit more urgency at times.

Cant really find fault overall with him. For his age he has a complete game. 187cms and of course still growing and might pinch hit as a KPP when finished.
Has some football arrogance and is prepared to back his judgement and ability and take a player on and also attempt a difficult kick. Wont just play the percentages and I like that about him. Not robotic by any means and is a natural sportsmen with outstanding hand eye co-ordination, balance and poise.
Quite physically developed despite his young age and perhaps he does not have as much improvement in him in that regard as others. But he is classy and silky and just keeps getting the ball and doing the right things with it.

The small question I have on him is not how good he is but rather his development. Looking at him in the 2004 U16s he looked amazing but in 2005 he really did not look like he had improved that much. A similar size still and not significantly better. I am a little concerned that he has peaked early and what we might be seeing is a player who is ready at a young age and might get caught later on by other players who are still developing at a rapid rate. I am not sure and its hard to know but have him at 2 still and will watch him this year closely. I see him as a long term wingman who will take a strong mark and look to set up goals with his ability to find space and kick to advantage. Such a good user that he is deadly delivering the ball into the forward line and will be hard to match up on with a player who can run with him and also match his considerable strength in the air.


That would be my order now. Might swap Gumbleton and Sellar over perhaps. Touch and go.

Sellar is 197cms and almost ruck height and still just turned 17. Hansen has put on 8kgs and is AFL ready year 1. Gumbleton is playing seniors in the WAFL and looks good. Gibbs is classy but about the same as last year (in my opinion).
Thorp is injured at the moment.

So thats basically the top 5. Everyone will have a differnt opinion than that and who is better. We will see all of tham at the U18 Champs and make a better judgement.

1 of Hansen, Thorp or Sellar (if we need a ruck) are the 3 who would help us the most in my opinion. Just happens that those are close to the 3 best players in the draft and aalso the 3 who can help us in the future the most. A nice case of best available and best for what we need being about the same. Sort of like Marc Murphy from last year.

Gibbs is no Judd by the way whoever said that. He is not quick like that and break games open. If he was a Deledio type then I would take him but he is not.

Hansen is a lot bigger than Riewdolt was also when drafted. Taller and more built and stronger. A cross between Nick and Kossy but can play back and forward.

 

[Pafloyul]

I'm sorry but Hansen is a bit of a Goof head, there must be something wrong with him.

Seriously though, the form we are in now does not look like we will have a pic before about #4 so perhaps someone like Thorp would be the go.

Mojo, do you think someone like Thorp could play a bit of a Pavlich type of role and play in the mid?

 

[mojo31]

I'm sorry but Hansen is a bit of a Goof head, there must be something wrong with him.

Seriously though, the form we are in now does not look like we will have a pic before about #4 so perhaps someone like Thorp would be the go.

Mojo, do you think someone like Thorp could play a bit of a Pavlich type of role and play in the mid?

Nothing much wrong with any of the top 5 Paf. They are all worthy of number 1 in years gone past in most cases. I would prefer a tall who can play all over the ground and the 2 in that are Thorp and Hansen. Sellar thrown in there if our 2 rookie rucks do not develop this year.

Thorp unfortunately has groin/OP problems and is not playing at the moment. Supposed to be up to 195cms and is a bit more explosive rather than Pav who can run all day and is 191cms and more powerfully built player.
Hansen is 195 and has run a 15 beep at the AIS (Andrew Walker/Judd level) a while ago and also can play CHB/FB and CHF and regularly wins hit outs when tossed into the ruck and has a big leap. Wont be a midfielder but could play on the flank on mediums if you wanted to.

Thorp is explosive and you would want him on the lead and making it a sprint. In those cases he would destroy most full forwards or full backs with his speed depending on if you wanted him down back or up forward. He can play either and is about a good an athletic package that has come along since Riewoldt. Might not have the aerobic capactiy but similar leap and speed and taller and more versatile. That type of package. If he develops the endurance then you could see him on the wing like Nick almost plays now.

The thing with Thorp and Hansen is that you really can dvelop them anywhere. They are tall, quick and have good leaps. Can play back and forward and read the play very well. Use there bodies but also run and carry the ball. Can play man on man and also zone off. Play well in good teams on top but also in poor teams getting smahsed. Can kick on either foot, Good kicks for goals. Work hard and have everything a player needs.

In short you can build around them or you can slot them where the club needs. Its up to the coaches what they do with them. They dont have anything that limits them playing in about 10 different positions. With them you get versatility and a modern style player who cant really be exploited. They can take the Tredrea power forwards or the Robbo athletic types and also the Tarrant explosive players. They can then move forward and demand a gorilla to cover them and then run them a merry dance with better athleticism. Play a medium defender on them to match there speed and watch them take contested marks in the goal square and open up defenses.

1 of those sort of players causes real match up problems for opposition teams and means they are reacting to us rather than the other way around.

Big enough wrap?

 

[Hu$$ey]

Good posts mojo but one query.

You said that Mitch Clarke was probably rated so high because he was so developed in years gone by and was dominating the kids smaller than him and also stayed in his frame for the next 3 years or so. You say the same thing about Hurn and potentially Gibbs, that maybe they are more developed and so had an impact earlier and hence are highly rated.

However, at the same time, you said Hansen would be your first pick and he is bigger than Thornton and Waite, that's the sign of early development if ever I saw one. So how come you have queries on Hurn, Clarke, Gibbs for being perhaps extra developed but not Hansen who is probably in the same boat, if not even more.

This is not a criticism in any sense, just interested to know.

Cheers.

 

[OZBomb]

Based on simply a best player basis I'd have it Hansen, Sellar then Gibbs.

Any pick in the top 10 will be a gun to great player. So it's all by-the-by.

Todd's brother Nathan Grima played particularly well on the weekend at CHB for the Devils. Wouldn't mind taking him as a rookie. Really improved physically and could be better than Todd in the end.

 

[Pafloyul]

Big enough wrap?

Freakin' huge but is it true?