Can we match it with the best?

[PieLebo87]

I'm sure a lot of you are watching Haw vs Cats.

Are we able to match it with these guys in 2014?

 

[mike123]

We couldn't match it with Geelong so we have no chance to match it with Hawthorn.

 

[HFF]

Geelong we can.

Historically we match up really well with them and we have had some very tight battles where the ledger is pretty 50-50.

The Hawks are the one side we just cannot break.

 

[Pera]

We couldn't match it with Geelong so we have no chance to match it with Hawthorn.

We did match it with Geelong, just couldnt get the job done over four quarters.

We are building though and by mid season, a sustained four quarter effort against the best is a big possibility.

 

[Jonno94]

Not against Hawthorn, they cut us up with their foot skills every time we play them and our ball movement isn't as quick as Geelong's to be able to hurt them the other way.

 

[DinoSoar]

Geelong definitely yes, Hawthorn? Not so sure but if they play like they have today against us, then yep. Problem is though, they never play this poorly when it's the Pies unfortunately

 

[Yidaki]

We couldn't match it with Geelong so we have no chance to match it with Hawthorn.

The cats are not the benchmark of the comp. Im still not buying them as potential premiers. The hawks will win the flag.

 

[Seedsfan]

We couldn't match it with Geelong so we have no chance to match it with Hawthorn.

We lost by 11 points with no Brown or Reid but yeah we were uncompetitive

 

[jonbe54]

Everyone says how skillful the Hawks are and I'd be the last to dispute that, they have recruited with smarts and developed with cleverness . . . however . . . I remember the '70's - at times the Pies looked bloody unbeatable with some very skillful players in the team . . . guess what brought us undone time after time?

Pressure . . . honest to god physical, threatening pressure, unrelenting over 4 quarters. Someone posted not minding our players getting looked at by the umps for pushing the boundaries and I couldn't agree more, the only way to counter elite skills is with intimidatory pressure - both direct and inferred.

Can we do it this year? Unlikely but not impossible, we have shown glimpses but are a fair way off coming close to that level with our current fit and available squad.

Ask me after round 11 when we have our injured players back and firing (fingers crossed) and have had a look at the likes of Shazza, Broomy and Co to see if they can slot in and improve the team as Goldy, Sidey and Blair did in '10.

 

[100volt1]

i rate hawthorn higher than geelong against us.

 

[mattys123]

We won't know the answer unless we get close to our best 22 on the ground.

There doesn't seem to be a ton of absolute top teams this year, so it might be Hawks, Cats and Port that we have to beat if we want to achieve something.

 

[Seedsfan]

We won't know the answer unless we get close to our best 22 on the ground.

There doesn't seem to be a ton of absolute top teams this year, so it might be Hawks, Cats and Port that we have to beat if we want to achieve something.

Port have not done much yet beat Carlton Adelaide and Brisbane none of those side are that good (Adelaide will get better when they get there players back) they beat WCE but again WCE looked second rate when they played Geelong.

 

[frizzle]

Not against Hawthorn, they cut us up with their foot skills every time we play them and our ball movement isn't as quick as Geelong's to be able to hurt them the other way.

Hawks cut us up with their foot skills because we zoned when we didn't have the ball last year. Allowed them to pinpoint passes without a contest. Watch the last few weeks, we have played a more man on man contested style game. They wont smash us next time provided we continue the game style we are currently playing. With 90 seconds to go in the game we still could have beat the cats. Add Brown, Reid & Williams & Sinkers to the team & we will be even harder to beat. We aren't far away. I don't expect us to be premiers this season, but we aren't far away from the cream in the competition.

 

[bradrowe#32]

We can beat both of them.

 

[jonbe54]

Hawks cut us up with their foot skills because we zoned when we didn't have the ball last year. Allowed them to pinpoint passes without a contest. Watch the last few weeks, we have played a more man on man contested style game. They wont smash us next time provided we continue the game style we are currently playing. With 90 seconds to go in the game we still could have beat the cats. Add Brown, Reid & Williams & Sinkers to the team & we will be even harder to beat. We aren't far away. I don't expect us to be premiers this season, but we aren't far away from the cream in the competition.

I see the boys are winning you over Friz, I must say I after Freo I was pondering a 8 - 10 finish but the new closer checking tactics and a little continuity of personel has worked wonders.

We are indeed not too far off.

 

[Jonno94]

Hawks cut us up with their foot skills because we zoned when we didn't have the ball last year. Allowed them to pinpoint passes without a contest. Watch the last few weeks, we have played a more man on man contested style game. They wont smash us next time provided we continue the game style we are currently playing. With 90 seconds to go in the game we still could have beat the cats. Add Brown, Reid & Williams & Sinkers to the team & we will be even harder to beat. We aren't far away. I don't expect us to be premiers this season, but we aren't far away from the cream in the competition.

Supporters always naturally assume their team will get better once their players come back, as the year goes on etc. But it doesn't always happen as we saw last year when we finally got Beams back, you can just as easily fall away (I bet Sydney didn't think they would be in the position they're now returning from an injuring ravaged year). I myself even said earlier in the injury thread we would start smashing teams once all our players return, but there's no guarantees in football.

 

[upnsmoke]

Against Cats…. Pies and Buckley's game plan matches up with Cat's game plan, it can go either way and usually close. For some reason the Pies game plan gives Cats some problems.


Against Hawks…. Ever since Buckley has implemented his new game plan… he was able to find a way to neutralise/beat Cats… but doing so, he opened up the Pies against Hawks. Hawks game plan and rebound is kryptonite to the Pies game plan. Its Hawks opting for quick foot speed and accurate kicking to rebound and then transition with 2-3 hawks players running in front of the Pies defenders towards their goal is GOLD for them.Of course, it opens up the hawks back line this way, but due to their speed and accuracy, they always manage to push through for a score or at least get a some easy inside 50s.


Against Swans and Dockers…. similar…. both teams like to the close high pressure physical game and Pies do well. Forget the 70 point thumping in round 1, Pies and Dockers tend to play close when both teams are at their best. Swans thrashed Pies in 2013 as well, but Pies got them back. Same with Dockers…


Against Bombers…. Bombers can be tough matchup because they have a hybrid setup, they try to play like Cats… in which Pies can match up closely, but they can switch it up and put Pies defensive 50 under pressure and pile up goals like Hawks do. I suppose Pies need to beat them early and get on top of them to put doubts on their heads.

 

[jonbe54]

Supporters always naturally assume their team will get better once their players come back, as the year goes on etc. But it doesn't always happen as we saw last year when we finally got Beams back, you can just as easily fall away. I myself even said earlier in the injury thread we would start smashing teams once all our players return, but there's no guarantees in football.

So true Jonno - as any Pies supporter old enough to remember the 1970 season and they will tell you NOTHING is certain in footy.

 

[frizzle]

Supporters always naturally assume their team will get better once their players come back, as the year goes on etc. But it doesn't always happen as we saw last year when we finally got Beams back, you can just as easily fall away. I myself even said earlier in the injury thread we would start smashing teams once all our players return, but there's no guarantees in football.

The personnel on the park makes up a part of how we can improve. The game plan changes are way way more important. Making a team kick to a contest is always better than standing in space & not giving a contest. I have liked what I have seen the last few weeks. Even against the Cats we played a good style of footy & make no mistake, we troubled them.

 

[Green Eggs]

Could we? Easily. Will we? Doubtful.

A little thing called consistency ruins any chance we have at predicting where we'll end up. Great one day, ****house the next! Is it strange that I kind of enjoy footy a bit more because of this?

 

[frizzle]

I see the boys are winning you over Friz, I must say I after Freo I was pondering a 8 - 10 finish but the new closer checking tactics and a little continuity of personel has worked wonders.

We are indeed not too far off.

The boys haven't had to win me over. Have just been concerned with the game plan. I think it has changed for the better from a defensive perspective.
No more coast to coast goals conceded. No more easy marks from the opposition kick ins. We are evolving & improving with lots of upside to come.

 

[MeisterBot]

All things even, not in 2014. But if things fall our way, 2015 may see us match it with anybody.

jonbe54 is right when he talks about pressure. Constant pressure is what we saw from the Cats. They had the big bodies to pressure Hawthorn, play physically and isolate key match ups where Hawthorn was undersized (Hawkins/McIntosh). Regardless how good your skills are, if you are constantly being bumped into, tackled and harrassed, you are going to make mistakes.

It's what made us so good when played with a press and forced turnovers, however it meant that we had to defend using zones off the ball, which Hawthorn have set up to counter.

We have played too loose with Hawthorn in the past without ball in hand. It meant that we broke even with them in the contest, but they cut us up with outside spread especially when our pressure on the inside dropped off later in games.

To my mind, Bucks has tried to replicate the pressure cooker effect of the press without having such weak zoning defences once the opposition is capable of clearing the immediate area. Part of this is the increased emphasis of two way running by the midfield where they are encouraged to run back in waves all across the field, kind of like a moving wall. Another aspect of this is the ability for defenders to win 1v1 contests and for players to be more accountable without ball in hand. I think it's starting to come together nicely and we are seeing good footy now that players are playing to structure and that we are utilising a +1 behind the ball.

I still think it has question marks (particularly on how well it goes against Hawthorn, and we aren't very good at hitting up leading players or gaining separation), but win or lose, if we can play every week like we did in the first half against North, you'd have to say that we are going alright.

 

[jonbe54]

The boys haven't had to win me over. Have just been concerned with the game plan. I think it has changed for the better from a defensive perspective.
No more coast to coast goals conceded. No more easy marks from the opposition kick ins. We are evolving & improving with lots of upside to come.

Agreed Friz, sometimes a limited zone is useful but generally accountability forced onto the opposition creates more opportunities.

 

[Masked Magician]

Yes, we will stretch hawks backline 100% but they have dangerous fwds Cyril and bruest will kill us

 

[Magpie Girl]

i rate hawthorn higher than geelong against us.

Off topic, but I like the 'blue'