Mad Monday Discussion

[PTizzle]

Isn't it Dan Rich

Could well be. He should have dressed up as a kebab

 

[Hollow Knight]

Should Americans be irate about Aka dressing up as Chuck Andersen? I mean he had an (awful) accent and everything.

Where does the faux outrage stop? Does anyone really think LeBron - or any black person for that matter - gives an *anything* about someone in fancy dress dressing fancily?

Pointless storm in a teacup garbage. Move on.

Because like the term "ape", there is a long history of blackface being used to mock/denigrate/diminish black skinned people for entertainment purposes in post-colonial societies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

FWIW Not interested in going toe-to-toe with anyone about it because clearly that wasn't Richy's intent and because I find the "political correctness" debate agonisingly banal and boring on both sides. Just providing the historical context.

 

[Elixuh]

I couldn't care less personally but the people who may be offended by it probably don't care about the intention. I think its easier, in this case, to avoid offending people by just choosing to dress as someone else or doing without the black paint.

 

[MacMum]

I don't want to get into it too much and I am 100% sure the lad didn't mean anything malicious whatsoever by it, but it's just not a smart thing for a footballer to do in this day and age.

I know it is frowned upon, but I truly get annoyed by the OTT reaction to this sort of thing.

How would LeBron impersonate Prince Harry?....with a red wig and painted pale skin I would expect....and I bet there wouldn't be the same uproar.....everyone would probably laugh at him..

Having said that...it all comes down to intention....if it is ridiculing anyone, I don't approve.

 

[PTizzle]

I know it is frowned upon, but I truly get annoyed by the OTT reaction to this sort of thing.

How would LeBron impersonate Prince Harry?....with a red wig and painted pale skin I would expect....and I bet there wouldn't be the same uproar.....everyone would probably laugh at him..

Much like TBD, with all due respect I am really not interested in any debate on the subject, sorry MM. There are differing circumstances to what you presented as an example in the second paragraph. Have a gander at his post at the bottom of the last page.

 

[matwt73]

#wheelchairkebabgate,

 

[Nunez]

#wheelchairkebabgate,

bahahahahhaha Gold Jerry, Gold.

 

[Skoob]

What I find interesting in that 'Age' article, is

The club indicated that it will speak to the players about their costumes sometime between Monday evening and when they return to headquarters on Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...young-girl-20140901-10b17o.html#ixzz3C3N5cl00

The horse has bolted. I would think in this day and age of professional image, muckraking and sensitive community standards, there would be some strict guidelines dictating what the lads can and can't get up to, including costumes. What is appropriate? Dressing as a paedophile and little girl probably isn't.
So the club will talk to them sometime after they have dressed up, posted pictures and been reported on in the media. Seems like the right time for a chat about it.
I reckon the club has a duty of care to its players to provide a strong guide on what is acceptable and not.

 

[Dom PC]

Because like the term "ape", there is a long history of blackface being used to mock/denigrate/diminish black skinned people for entertainment purposes in post-colonial societies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

FWIW Not interested in going toe-to-toe with anyone about it because clearly that wasn't Richy's intent and because I find the "political correctness" debate agonisingly banal and boring on both sides. Just providing the historical context.

Sorry TBD (feel free to ignore my post).
But Darth Vader is black with a black man voicing over a white English man in the suit. Is that racist because he is a white man in a black suit being evil?
While I understand the history quite well after reading through these issues on BF, people need to realise this attitude is close to simply being another form of racism.

Context/discretion is needed in all situations obviously, but this certainly doesn't meet the criteria of someone being even close racist. It's not even racial stereotyping since he was trying to be a specific person.

 

[chopperduck]

There are 2 factors in play with any actions people do or things they say. 1 The context in which the person doing/saying is doing/saying it. Context is everything in the english language, and the same set of words used differently can mean entirely different things. 2 how something is taken by another person. This is the part where someone doing/saying something needs to be aware of sensitive issues. Just because they do/say something in a non racial or offensive way, doesn't mean that someone can not take offense to it.

There are no strict black and white lines on these types of things, so it is generally best to steer clear of anything murky, which includes things/words that have a historical meaning, origin or purpose of basically being racial or offensive. In a couple of more generations maybe things will relax a bit more and sensitivity will die a little more. But for now, people need to use caution with what they do/say.

 

[Skoob]

There's also not a lot of 'white' Australians or Americans who have been discriminated against, let alone oppressed because of their skin colour. The offence, context and sensitivities, do not work both ways.

 

[Simbatheking21]

Could well be. He should have dressed up as a kebab

hahahah what happened with that story anyway?

 

[POBT]

If lots of people find something offensive, wouldn't it just be best to avoid that?

 

[dlanod]

There are no strict black and white lines on these types of things

You're suggesting separate black and white lines? You racist!

 

[Tassie4ever]

There's also not a lot of 'white' Australians or Americans who have been discriminated against, let alone oppressed because of their skin colour. The offence, context and sensitivities, do not work both ways.

Hey, you're talking to a Tasmanian!!

 

[Skoob]

Hey, you're talking to a Tasmanian!!

How is the indigenous Tasmanian population going BTW?

 

[MICKYCONLAN]

Most people aren't interested in offending anyone. Whatever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Dizzle]

I'm just tired of hearing about all the people who might be offended. Why don't we wait until they make their outrage public?

I agree with all who say there is zero place for offensive behaviour or anything that marginalises anyone unfairly, but is a silly young man playing dress up news, or just something for someone to trip over their soapboxes to decry?

There's genuine racism occurring everywhere every day. It's abhorrent and disgusting - and I'm not saying that for 'likes' or brownie points. This isn't that.

 

[Lionheart182]

Whether intentional or not, something which can be viewed as racially insensitive can really be a lightning rod for controversy (and rightly so). As POBT said the best way to avoid this is not to do it.

 

[chopperduck]

You have to then take that sensitivity and magnify it 10 fold when you are someone in the public eye like a professional footballer who the media will jump all over if you do anything that looks anywhere close to being borderline. You just gotta play it safe. There are 1000's of things you could dress up as. Whilst i think this is all a storm in a tea cup, and i actually have no issue with what has happened, i'd just like our players to be smarter than that and just be more aware.

It isn't up to the club to baby sit them when picking out costumes either. They are big boys, they need to learn to fend for themselves and make smart decisions.

 

[Dom PC]

So costume parties are racially and culturally offensive? Come on guys, some of you need to get off the fence. It is crazy - who is being offended by a white male dressing up to be a famous black basketball player? If he can dress up like a white basketball player, he should be able to dress up like a black basketball player? Anyone suggesting against that is basing their opinion on the person in question's skin colour, which is racist in itself.

 

[a mayes ing]

Can we put all this in another thread about racism or something. I would rather read about media articles relating to the Lions than the philosophy of racism.

 

[carnthemlions]

Honestly, when has blackface ever been a good idea?
It never ends well.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The only post I have found truly objectional in the last page is Dom PC's "get off the fence" comment.

God forbid people acknowledge the complexity of the issue. Wasn't aware we had to nail our flag to the mast at one of two ideological extremes.

No grey areas allowed which seemingly precludes me from both expressing my firm belief that Rich doesn't have a racist bone in his body while also simultaneously rolling my eyes at the white middle-class bemoaning political correctness and supporting it with analogies that completely fail to capture the social/historical context as well as the political/power imbalances that lie at the heart of the issue.

Not one person here has accused Rich of being racist or deliberately offensive, but if simply posting a link to external information (with no editorial at all) about why some people find blackface troubling is enough to light the powder keg, then the problem isn't fence sitters, it's flag wavers.

Exactly the reason why I preemptively declared my complete lack of desire to debate the topic. Footy forums and nuance go together like mint peas and custard.

 

[Caiphus]

I just think he was tempting fate especially after #wheelchairkebabgate and regardless of the truth of the previous circumstance it makes Rich seem like a prejudiced nong.