Unpopular Basketball Opinions

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Individual awards? So where are LeBron's 10 scoring titles? Oh he only has one and is 30 and probably wont ever lead the league in scoring again. Where is LeBron's steals titles. Oh he has none. Where is LeBron's Defensive Player of the Year award. Oh he doesnt have one of those either.

Jordan won MVP's in a league with Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Drexler etc etc LeBron literally just need to beat Durant. That's it. Plus Jordan got jipped because they got sick of giving them to him. He would really have 7 at the every least, maybe 8.

Anyways it's not just individual awards. Just watch the two of them. Jordan is twice the defender LeBron is, twice the leader, three times the clutch player that LBJ is. LeBron doesnt have Jordan's mentality either, the mental toughness, the will to win. All that.

Yes Jordan is the GOAT and yes the gap really is that large.

A lot of subjective nonsense in this post "twice the defender", "twice the leader" etc. You do Jordan's legacy a disservice with all that hyperbole.

Jordan isn't the best player because he was really clutch or because he won six titles from six attempts or because he was defensive player of the year that one time. He's the best player because a range of measures indicate that he was the most productive player who ever played the game. On a per minute basis he did more than any other player to help his team win basketball games.

The same measures indicate that LeBron James is the second most productive player to ever play the game. He doesn't score as many points but he is better at setting up his teammates. He doesn't get as many steals and yet he has shown the rare ability to defend every position.

From the age of 21 until 30 years of age:

Michael Jordan: 667 games; PER 29.8; WS 147.6
LeBron James: 683 games; PER 29.2; WS 149.2

You've become so fixated on Jordan's greatness that the only way someone can be better is if they tick off all of Jordan's achievements. Until Jordan came along dominant scorers were not regarded particularly highly. In 1980, Bill Russell was regarded as the greatest NBA player in history despite the offensive performance of the likes of Wilt Chamberlain. Similarly neither Magic Johnson or Larry Bird were particularly dominant scorers and yet both were viewed as the best players in the league for the best part of a decade.

LeBron may not be as great as Jordan but there are things he does on a court better than Jordan did. There are teams throughout history who would've benefited more from having a LeBron James than they would have by getting their hands on Michael Jordan.
 
Jordan also won them with Rodman, Pippen, Kerr, Kukoc etc

LBJ in Cleveland had Big Z and ******* Mo Williams. In 08/09 when he lost he finals he averaged 35.3ppg, 9.1rpg, 7.3rpg, 1.6stl and 1blk on 51% from the field during the playoffs. BUT YEAH LET'S ALL BLAME LEBRON.

Then last season he averaged 27.4ppg, 7.1rpg, 4.8apg and 1.9stl on 56.5%, YES FIFTY-SIX % FROM THE FIELD! BUT ONCE AGAIN LET'S ******* BLAAAAAAAAME LEBRON.
He wasnt good enough to get his team over the line. He is the star, of course the blame falls on him.
 
A lot of subjective nonsense in this post "twice the defender", "twice the leader" etc. You do Jordan's legacy a disservice with all that hyperbole.

Jordan isn't the best player because he was really clutch or because he won six titles from six attempts or because he was defensive player of the year that one time. He's the best player because a range of measures indicate that he was the most productive player who ever played the game. On a per minute basis he did more than any other player to help his team win basketball games.

The same measures indicate that LeBron James is the second most productive player to ever play the game. He doesn't score as many points but he is better at setting up his teammates. He doesn't get as many steals and yet he has shown the rare ability to defend every position.

From the age of 21 until 30 years of age:

Michael Jordan: 667 games; PER 29.8; WS 147.6
LeBron James: 683 games; PER 29.2; WS 149.2

You've become so fixated on Jordan's greatness that the only way someone can be better is if they tick off all of Jordan's achievements. Until Jordan came along dominant scorers were not regarded particularly highly. In 1980, Bill Russell was regarded as the greatest NBA player in history despite the offensive performance of the likes of Wilt Chamberlain. Similarly neither Magic Johnson or Larry Bird were particularly dominant scorers and yet both were viewed as the best players in the league for the best part of a decade.

LeBron may not be as great as Jordan but there are things he does on a court better than Jordan did. There are teams throughout history who would've benefited more from having a LeBron James than they would have by getting their hands on Michael Jordan.
Im not really a fan of all those crazy stats they have come up with, even though Jordan leads most of them because of how good he was. Stats and achievements are great and all that, but really, all you have to do, is watch the players. LeBron is great, dont get me wrong. I have him already around the top 10 of all time and by the time he is done, he will crack top 5 (unless he goes ringless the rest of the way which probably wont happen).

But just watching Jordan. He is IMO and that's all it is, is my opinion. He is quite clearly the GOAT and has quite some distance to anybody in second. LeBron wont get there and that is no shame on him. He is already great and will most probably end his career a top 5 player of all time.

But Jordan is Jordan.
 

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Im not really a fan of all those crazy stats they have come up with, even though Jordan leads most of them because of how good he was. Stats and achievements are great and all that, but really, all you have to do, is watch the players. LeBron is great, dont get me wrong. I have him already around the top 10 of all time and by the time he is done, he will crack top 5 (unless he goes ringless the rest of the way which probably wont happen).

But just watching Jordan. He is IMO and that's all it is, is my opinion. He is quite clearly the GOAT and has quite some distance to anybody in second. LeBron wont get there and that is no shame on him. He is already great and will most probably end his career a top 5 player of all time.

But Jordan is Jordan.

Watching the players obviously isn't enough since your assessment of the players is somewhat off. More to the point, unless you're paid to do so there's an awfully good chance that you only watch a very small fraction of NBA games.

The simple fact is that unless he suffers a career ending injury tomorrow, LeBron is all but certain to be remembered as the second best player to play in the NBA. If he retires at 40 with a line that reads like 40k points, 10k rebounds and 10k assists there will be no shortage of people who will believe that he was the best of all-time.

I'd recommend that you stop worrying about Jordan's legacy - which is not in dispute - and simply enjoy the fact that you get to watch an all-time great. They don't come along as frequently as some would like to think.
 
Watching the players obviously isn't enough since your assessment of the players is somewhat off. More to the point, unless you're paid to do so there's an awfully good chance that you only watch a very small fraction of NBA games.

The simple fact is that unless he suffers a career ending injury tomorrow, LeBron is all but certain to be remembered as the second best player to play in the NBA. If he retires at 40 with a line that reads like 40k points, 10k rebounds and 10k assists there will be no shortage of people who will believe that he was the best of all-time.

I'd recommend that you stop worrying about Jordan's legacy - which is not in dispute - and simply enjoy the fact that you get to watch an all-time great. They don't come along as frequently as some would like to think.
How is my assessment of LeBron off?

I have him in the top 10 GOAT right now. That's about right. If he can manage to add another 2 or so rings to his tally, then he vaults to top 5 I would think.

I love how you just throw out wild hypotheticals like LeBron playing until he is 40 years old and that he will finish with 40k points and 10k each rebounds and assists. ******* lol. Yeah and if my aunty had a dick, she'd be my uncle.

I dont worry at all about Jordan's legacy. It's there for everyone to see. It's amazing. I like LeBron and wish him luck in the future, obviously im a Bulls fan though so im hoping we can beat the Cavs this season and win the title. Not to stop LeBron from winning a title, but for the Bulls to get another one themselves.
 
"LeBron isn't a scorer", yet is #9 all-time in points per game, and has scored more points than any other player in NBA history before the age of 30, and has scored more points than any other player in the past ten NBA seasons. Ok.

I get the point that was trying to be made, but any way you slice it, he's a volume scorer and #1 option. He's just that consistent and efficient, and it's just become that easy and common for him to score 25-30 that we think nothing of it. It's almost boring how good LeBron is. I mean, he's had just one season (his rookie year) where he averaged less than 26 points per game, and has averaged 27.5ppg for his career on just 19.9 FGA per game. Remarkable efficiency for a perimeter player.

LeBron's lack of "style points" seems to hurt him in comparison to Jordan too, although it really shouldn't if you're thinking of them from a pure effectiveness standpoint. Jordan has a sexier highlights package, and was better to watch, and I can't help but feel like that clouds some people's judgement on LeBron or anyone in comparison to Jordan.
 
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"LeBron isn't a scorer", yet is #9 all-time in points per game, and has scored more points than any other player in NBA history before the age of 30, and has scored more points than any other player in the past ten NBA seasons. Ok.

I get the point that was trying to be made, but any way you slice it, he's a volume scorer and #1 option. It's just become that easy and common for him to score 25-30 that we think nothing of it. I mean, he's had just one season (his rookie year) where he averaged less than 26 points per game, and has averaged 27.5ppg for his career on just 19.9 FGA per game. Remarkable efficiency for a perimeter player.

LBJ isn't a volume scorer. Kobe is, AI was etc
 
LBJ isn't a volume scorer. Kobe is, AI was etc

And yet LeBron has a higher career points per game average (27.5) and points per 36 minutes average (25.1) than either Iverson (26.7 ppg, 23.3 pp36) or Bryant (25.5 ppg, 25.0 pp36).

LeBron is not a volume shooter, but because of his efficiency, he is a volume scorer.
 
At the same age (29 years, 9 months, 21 days):

LeBron, today
Jordan, December 8, 1992

LeBron James

NBA Championships - 2
NBA Finals appearances - 5
NBA Playoff appearances - 9
Olympic Medals - 3 (two Gold, one Bronze)
Olympic appearances - 3

NBA MVP awards - 4
NBA Finals MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star Game MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star selections - 10
All-NBA First Team selections - 8
All-NBA Second Team selections - 2
All-NBA Third Team selections - 0
All-Defensive First Team selections - 5
All-Defensive Second Team selections - 1

NBA Scoring leader - 1
NBA Steals - 0
NBA Minutes leader - 1
Player Efficiency Rating leader - 6
Win Shares leader - 5

NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
McDonald's High School All-American (2003)

Michael Jordan

NBA Championships - 2
NBA Finals appearances - 2
NBA Playoff appearances - 8
Olympic Medals - 2 (two Gold)
Olympic appearances - 2

NBA MVP awards - 3
NBA Finals MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star Game MVP awards - 1
NBA All-Star selections - 8
All-NBA First Team selections - 6
All-NBA Second Team selections - 1
All-NBA Third Team selections - 0
All-Defensive First Team selections - 5
All-Defensive Second Team selections - 0

NBA Scoring leader - 6
NBA Steals leader - 1
NBA Minutes leader - 2
Player Efficiency Rating leader - 6
Win Shares leader - 6

NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
McDonald's High School All-American (1981)
 
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I don't remember MJ winning a Bronze ;)

Age thing is hard with LeBron though with him getting 3 extra years at the start for not having played college.

MJ also basically plays his next 4 full seasons flawlessly.
 
At the same age (29 years, 9 months, 21 days):

LeBron, today
Jordan, December 8, 1992

LeBron James

NBA Championships - 2
NBA Finals appearances - 5
NBA Playoff appearances - 9
Olympic Medals - 3 (two Gold, one Bronze)
Olympic appearances - 3

NBA MVP awards - 4
NBA Finals MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star Game MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star selections - 10
All-NBA First Team selections - 8
All-NBA Second Team selections - 2
All-NBA Third Team selections - 0
All-Defensive First Team selections - 5
All-Defensive Second Team selections - 1

NBA Scoring leader - 1
NBA Steals - 0
NBA Minutes leader - 1
Player Efficiency Rating leader - 6
Win Shares leader - 5

NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
McDonald's High School All-American (2003)

Michael Jordan

NBA Championships - 2
NBA Finals appearances - 2
NBA Playoff appearances - 8
Olympic Medals - 2 (two Gold, one Bronze)
Olympic appearances - 2

NBA MVP awards - 3
NBA Finals MVP awards - 2
NBA All-Star Game MVP awards - 1
NBA All-Star selections - 8
All-NBA First Team selections - 6
All-NBA Second Team selections - 1
All-NBA Third Team selections - 0
All-Defensive First Team selections - 5
All-Defensive Second Team selections - 0

NBA Scoring leader - 6
NBA Steals leader - 1
NBA Minutes leader - 2
Player Efficiency Rating leader - 6
Win Shares leader - 6

NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
McDonald's High School All-American (1981)

LEBRON JAMES

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 1
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - 2 or 50% of the time.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 1

MICHAEL JORDAN

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 0
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - N/A because Jordan wanted to beat the best not join up with the best to win titles.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 0
 

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LEBRON JAMES

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 1
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - 2 or 50% of the time.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 1

MICHAEL JORDAN

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 0
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - N/A because Jordan wanted to beat the best not join up with the best to win titles.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 0

People who use this argument show their little knowledge of the NBA.

MJ played with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr etc throughout his career.

LBJ in Cleveland played with superstars like Big Z, Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Eric Snow, Scott Pollard etc.
 
LEBRON JAMES

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 1
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - 2 or 50% of the time.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 1

MICHAEL JORDAN

Amount of times player leaves team he is drafted to, to make a super team in order to obviously dominate and win championships - 0
Amount of times said super team loses in the NBA Finals - N/A because Jordan wanted to beat the best not join up with the best to win titles.
Amount of times player has then left first super team to create a second, younger, better super team to continue to dominate and win championships - 0
What all time great teams did Jordan come up against in the finals?

I seriously doubt his Bulls beat the 2014 Spurs.
 
People who use this argument show their little knowledge of the NBA.

MJ played with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr etc throughout his career.

LBJ in Cleveland played with superstars like Big Z, Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Eric Snow, Scott Pollard etc.
Wrong.

Yes Jordan played with Rodman, Pippen and Kukoc. Not sure why you mention Kerr. I love Steve Kerr. He has a great personality, is really funny, I think will make a great coach and I love his analysis on all things basketball related on shows like Open Court but he wasnt a great player. He was a spot up three point shooter. That's it. Every team has 3pt specialists. Kerr was that man on the Bulls.

Pippen and Kukoc were drafted by Chicago. A team built. Not put together by three superstars deciding to sign up on the same team to dominate.

Rodman was a massive gamble which could have gone horribly wrong. Luckily, Jordan, Pip and Phil kept him inline and it worked really well.
 
What all time great teams did Jordan come up against in the finals?

I seriously doubt his Bulls beat the 2014 Spurs.
Every team Jordan faced in the Finals was a great team. Not just the finals too. He had to beat some great teams outta the East to make it that far. The Reggie Miller led Pacers in the mid 90's and the Ewing led Knicks all the way through the 90's.

Then he has Magic's Lakers, with Worthy, Scott, Campbell, Green, Perkins, Divac, Thomspon... that team was stacked. They went 58-24 in the regular season.

Drexler's Trailblazers. Jerome Kersey, Duckworth, Ainge, Terry Porter and Cliff Robinson. Another pretty stacked team, they went 57-25 in the regular season.

The 93 Suns were crazy good. Went 62-20 in the regular season and had Barkley in his prime with KJ, Ainge, Ceballos, Chambers, Dumas and Dan Majerle. They were unlucky to run up against the Bulls.

The Sonics in 96. Payton and Kemp in their prime with support cast including Hawkins, Schrempf, Snow, Perkins, McMillan and Ervin Johnson. They went 64-18 in the regular season.

Then the Jazz in 97 and 98. Malone and Stockton in their prime. Hornacek, Russell, Anderson, Carr, Eisley they too went 64-18 in the regular season.

All those teams were Championship caliber teams. You can throw in the 98 Pacers with Reggie, Rik Smits, Antonio and Dale Davis, McKey, Mullin, Mark Jackson and Travis Best. And of course the Knicks in the say 93 who went 60-22. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Greg Anthoney, Hubert Davis, Anthony Mason, Doc Rivers and Charles Smith. Those Pacers btw went 58-24.

Any of those teams would have been worth champions and the reason we sit around and talk about great players who finished their respective careers without rings. Well that was MJ's fault. No doubt guys like Ewing, Miller, Payton, Kemp, Malone, Stockton, Drexler could have gotten rings in those years.

I know Payton and Drexler later got them but it wasnt as the focal point, Drexler was the sidekick and Payton was just riding in the car.
 
Also Kukoc was drafted as a 25yr old after playing 8 years in Europe. So they drafted an already seasoned and experienced player.
Also wrong again. Kukoc was drafted as a kid. 21 years old. Drafted in 1990 by the Bulls but not brought out until the 94 or 95 season.

A team built.

LeBron called up his super friends and made a super team to win championships. Everybody knows this and it will always take away from his legacy. Just saying.
 

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