Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[romeoh]

Which generalization are you specifically referring to? WA Roo was talking about a specific case, and I responded to that.

What's "quite reasonable and valid comment" in your mind was a generalization about relationships, it had nothing to do with the specific case that had been brought up by WA Roo.

When your own opinions stand in contradiction to one another, the term "simp" is most apt. Calling you such isn't because you have a differing opinion to mine. If it were merely about having a different POV, I'd be calling many a person on BF such, but that's not the case.

Are you claiming/implying to be the arbiter of what's considered "nutjob", "speculative" and "questionable"? It seems you are. How very arrogant of you to do so, especially given you haven't rebutted the claims in those videos. If you find tedious the discussing of POV's that differ from your own, don't bother to do it. No one is forcing you to. Or do you merely seek an echo chamber where confirmation bias tickles your ears?

I enjoy discussing things with you. It starts by you having a foot in mouth moment, and my pointing it out - as I have with your earlier contradiction - and having a jolly good time whilst doing so. You and I have a good thing going.

Haha -Yep happy to agree I am not perfect. But, unlike you Tesser, I don't dislike women, nor do I mistrust them or fear them, nor do I think they are all scheming witches out to get me, nor do I see the male race as weak and victimized. I don't begrudge women the desire for equality. I am not driven by some demented agenda and I have pretty good manners overall.
That leaves me quite well placed to have a civilized discussion with reasonable people.

 

[Santana]

You mean smaller families? Do you think this is a result of men giving up, or other reasons?

I'd be interested to see a statistic for this.

It's a result of many things but one of them is some men giving up or being so reluctant they end up never doing it.

I think single parent homes, are not ideal. Sometimes they are necessary though.

No kidding it's not ideal since children are meant to be raised by both of its parents together. Most of the time it isn't necessary though.

Less children being born is a result of a higher level of education in women, that's a proven stat around the world.

More broken marriages could be a result of anything but it doesn't help controlling men for a woman to be actually able to stand on her own two feet without him, or to live in a country that allows her to believe she can.

Most men are not this controlling. Being an overly controlling partner is not just a single gender problem.

One of the main reasons is we now have a system that is anti fathers.

 

[Taylor]

Given that men can use "man up" as a reflex, automatic, response to another man pointing out something negative or something done toward him doesn't necessarily make it about feelings, especially used in its usual context. Women use "man up" in order to manipulate the man into compliance by playing on the man's pride and ego.

The term is used for derogatory purposes. There's no issue of men needing to express their feelings toward one another in a better way about it. Men have their own way of hashing their issues out, and it's not by confiding in those who use "man up" in a more personal sense. Such language is dismissive, so why would a man seek the sharing of feelings with another who uses such language and cares nothing for his feelings? It'd most likely be met with more shaming language. That's reality, not idealism.

You've just backed up everything I said?

Perhaps you guys should stop putting each other down with it so that there isn't a culture of being manly. It might let some more men in need actually be vulnerable because it might be a joke for guys to say it to guys but when that man is actually in need he isn't laughing, all he has seen are his peers making a joke of less than manly behavior.

 

[tesseract]

Haha -Yep happy to agree I am not perfect. But, unlike you Tesser, I don't dislike women, nor do I mistrust them or fear them, nor do I think they are all scheming witches out to get me, nor do I see the male race as weak and victimized. I don't begrudge women the desire for equality. I am not driven by some demented agenda and I have pretty good manners overall.
That leaves me quite well placed to have a civilized discussion with reasonable people.

Civilized discussion to you seems to involve telling others what their views are and the subsequent strawmanning. Real civilized and reasonable, ol' chum.

 

[I am Jack]

It is absolutely about sharing feelings!
If a man is upset about something, his dickhead mates tell him to toughen up or call him a princess so he keeps it to himself.
What he needed to do was talk with them, have them listen and realise that they are all going through the same thing.

Perhaps there would be less suicide if it wasn't so hard for men to discuss issues between themselves.

No, perhaps there would be less suicide with realistic, reasonable and equal family laws for males.
The hidden epidemic that is male suicide doesn't just come about because blokes refuse to talk to other blokes about their problems.
If that were the case, it sure as hell wouldn't be swept under the carpet and kept out of the papers like it is.
If the issue were men speaking up about suicide, this would've been rectified long ago, but there is more to it than that.
And as the laws tighten around more men around the country, the hidden epidemic that is male suicide will get worse, and the so called national emergency (domestic violence perpetrated by men) - really will become a national emergency, and it really will become a crime perpetrated by men.
The strain on men through the shocking treatment we are seeing laid out in the media this year - it will not cause a decline in violence or suicide, it will cause an increase. When people point to a problem - without identifying the cause - they cannot expect to solve that problem IMO.

 

[romeoh]

Civilized discussion to you seems to involve telling others what their views are and the subsequent strawmanning. Real civilized and reasonable, ol' chum.

 

[tesseract]

You've just backed up everything I said?

Perhaps you guys should stop putting each other down with it so that there isn't a culture of being manly. It might let some more men in need actually be vulnerable because it might be a joke for guys to say it to guys but when that man is actually in need he isn't laughing, all he has seen are his peers making a joke of less than manly behavior.

I understand the context you were using, but it's not the only context a term like "man up" gets used. I explained the difference in my post.

Also, you're noticeably silent on women using shaming language.

Perhaps women should stop using shaming language on men and provoking the kind of manly response you're asking men not to force upon other men. For any women who uses shaming language on a man and yet states as you do would make for a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

So, you want men to enforce a culture that isn't that of being "manly". This is Feminism's vision of emasculating men - men not being men, masculine or manly. Don't mistake men for being women. Men acting vulnerable isn't going to become the norm, nor does it serve any logical or practical purpose for a man to do so in front of those pouring on the shaming language. Men aren't going to sit around the coffee table pouring out their hearts, like women. You're looking at this issue as though men doing this to other men can be fixed by dealing with it in a female fashion. I think it's rather naive.

 

[cartwright]

I understand the context you were using, but it's not the only context a term like "man up" gets used. I explained the difference in my post.

Also, you're noticeably silent on women using shaming language.

Perhaps women should stop using shaming language on men and provoking the kind of manly response you're asking men not to force upon other men. For any women who uses shaming language on a man and yet states as you do would make for a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

So, you want men to enforce a culture that isn't that of being "manly". This is Feminism's vision of emasculating men - men not being men, masculine or manly. Don't mistake men for being women. Men acting vulnerable isn't going to become the norm, nor does it serve any logical or practical purpose for a man to do so in front of those pouring on the shaming language. Men aren't going to sit around the coffee table pouring out their hearts, like women. You're looking at this issue as though men doing this to other men can be fixed by dealing with it in a female fashion. I think it's rather naive.

As pointed out you use the word mangina to shame men.

Why is that okay?

 

[tesseract]

As pointed out you use the word mangina to shame men.

Why is that okay?

I use the the term as descriptive. A mangina is a male lackey of the feminist movement...

The issue of my use of such a term has been raised and answered previously.

 

[Taylor]

I understand the context you were using, but it's not the only context a term like "man up" gets used. I explained the difference in my post.

Also, you're noticeably silent on women using shaming language.

Perhaps women should stop using shaming language on men and provoking the kind of manly response you're asking men not to force upon other men. For any women who uses shaming language on a man and yet states as you do would make for a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

So, you want men to enforce a culture that isn't that of being "manly". This is Feminism's vision of emasculating men - men not being men, masculine or manly. Don't mistake men for being women. Men acting vulnerable isn't going to become the norm, nor does it serve any logical or practical purpose for a man to do so in front of those pouring on the shaming language. Men aren't going to sit around the coffee table pouring out their hearts, like women. You're looking at this issue as though men doing this to other men can be fixed by dealing with it in a female fashion. I think it's rather naive.

I want men to change their perception of manly. Not this never cry, never show something is getting to you manliness that men tell each other to man up over.

Don't put words in my mouth. I want you to pull your head out of your backside and see that because you call it a joke doesn't mean the man hearing it is as a joke and it's no different to gay men living in a group of men who throw around gay slurs as a joke. That man isn't going to interrupt the hilarity to let them know he is gay. The environment you created for yourselves restricts, and it costs lives.

You know what women demand of men?
Honesty, Compassion, Integrity and Trust.

None of that is being super tough, never depressed, no feeling zombies.

You're defending a culture that kills young men.

 

[Taylor]

No, perhaps there would be less suicide with realistic, reasonable and equal family laws for males.
The hidden epidemic that is male suicide doesn't just come about because blokes refuse to talk to other blokes about their problems.
If that were the case, it sure as hell wouldn't be swept under the carpet and kept out of the papers like it is.
If the issue were men speaking up about suicide, this would've been rectified long ago, but there is more to it than that.
And as the laws tighten around more men around the country, the hidden epidemic that is male suicide will get worse, and the so called national emergency (domestic violence perpetrated by men) - really will become a national emergency, and it really will become a crime perpetrated by men.
The strain on men through the shocking treatment we are seeing laid out in the media this year - it will not cause a decline in violence or suicide, it will cause an increase. When people point to a problem - without identifying the cause - they cannot expect to solve that problem IMO.

You've told me everything that isn't the issue, now...

 

[Taylor]

I use the the term as descriptive. A mangina is a male lackey of the feminist movement...

The issue of my use of such a term has been raised and answered previously.

You immaculate when it's convenient for you.

You're a monster.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I use the the term as descriptive. A mangina is a male lackey of the feminist movement...

The issue of my use of such a term has been raised and answered previously.

You use it as an attempt to shame men, nothing more, nothing less.

So how is your purported wife taking the news of you 'going your own way'?

 

[I am Jack]

You've told me everything that isn't the issue, now...

No, I've told you everything that isn't an issue to you now.

 

[clogged]

Less and less children are being born and more and more of them are being born into single parent or soon to be households.

So?

The thought of more children being raised by single mothers makes me weep for the future.

Why?

 

[I am Jack]

I use the the term as descriptive. A mangina is a male lackey of the feminist movement...

The issue of my use of such a term has been raised and answered previously.

Probably the only people on earth I have no respect for. The ultimate fence sitters, unable to take a stance - or make a decision - if their lives depended on it.

 

[tesseract]

I want men to change their perception of manly. Not this never cry, never show something is getting to you manliness that men tell each other to man up over.

Don't put words in my mouth. I want you to pull your head out of your backside and see that because you call it a joke doesn't mean the man hearing it is as a joke and it's no different to gay men living in a group of men who throw around gay slurs as a joke. That man isn't going to interrupt the hilarity to let them know he is gay. The environment you created for yourselves restricts, and it costs lives.

You know what women demand of men?
Honesty, Compassion, Integrity and Trust.

None of that is being super tough, never depressed, no feeling zombies.

You're defending a culture that kills young men.

Men will define what's manly, what women want or expect in this regard is irrelevant. Pussy begging men, usually of the mangina variety, will love your suggestion though, for they're the kind of men who get their validation as men by means of women's approval. These men have no self-respect and no sense of self worth, such is given them by females.

Where did I put words in your mouth?

The use of "man up" is contextual. You seemingly don't like or disagree with the fact that it is.

The environment "you've", as in men, have created? This comment of yours completely ignores women's use of such shaming language toward men. But, no, can't have dem wymyns answering for their actions - gotta solely blame da menz. No wonder you've stayed noticeably silent on women's use of shaming language toward men. Silence can be considered implicit approval and thus condoning.

What women demand? Who are women to demand anything of men or anyone else? Or is this just you and your female solipsism and sense of entitlement talking?

So, you've equated men to zombies for not fitting in with your ideal of what a man should be. You've done a great job validating my posts on female nature.

 

[tesseract]

Probably the only people on earth I have no respect for. The ultimate fence sitters, unable to take a stance - or make a decision - if their lives depended on it.

I don't think they sit on the fence though, for they're always looking for opportunities to throw a fellow male under the bus so as to receive the female validation they need and crave. And it is a need given they have no sense of self worth. They have to constantly act in such a way in order to be rewarded validation, belonging and value. This makes them the lowliest of the low. These men will stoop to any level to meet their psychological needs. It should be the definition of pathetic.

 

[kfc1]

The environment you created for yourselves

wat

 

[tesseract]

You immaculate when it's convenient for you.

You're a monster.

Are you saying that I'm a sinless monster with good hygiene standards?

 

[cartwright]

Men will define what's manly, what women want or expect in this regard is irrelevant. Pussy begging men, usually of the mangina variety, will love your suggestion though, for they're the kind of men who get their validation as men by means of women's approval. These men have no self-respect and no sense of self worth, such is given them by females.

Where did I put words in your mouth?

The use of "man up" is contextual. You seemingly don't like or disagree with the fact that it is.

The environment "you've", as in men, have created? This comment of yours completely ignores women's use of such shaming language toward men. But, no, can't have dem wymyns answering for their actions - gotta solely blame da menz. No wonder you've stayed noticeably silent on women's use of shaming language toward men. Silence can be considered implicit approval and thus condoning.

What women demand? Who are women to demand anything of men or anyone else? Or is this just you and your female solipsism and sense of entitlement talking?

So, you've equated men to zombies for not fitting in with your ideal of what a man should be. You've done a great job validating my posts on female nature.

Hypocrite.

Speaking for myself, I don't demand anything. I do expect those things though.

 

[Taylor]

Are you saying that I'm a sinless monster with good hygiene standards?

Sorry, it should have read emasculate.

 

[Taylor]

wat

He was talking about a situation where guys make jokes about being tough and it's all a joke but when a woman does it the joke becomes oppressive manipulation.

My point was that it was already oppressive manipulation by men of men.
I actually think it's done by small strength (internal) men struggling with something to other men in order to keep the playing field level. How dare another man be brave enough to cry, or talk about how he feels. You're all islands remember? That is the culture that is killing young men.

Get your s**t in the open, realise you're all going through it and get through it as a team. That's what men are way better than women at. You will all rally behind each other and jog along together.

Act. Belong. Commit.
The middle one is what men need to focus on, because men commit to their friends already.

 

[Taylor]

No, I've told you everything that isn't an issue to you now.

It was an invitation to continue getting to your point.

You were telling me what the problem wasn't. Please tell me what the problem is.

Constructive constructive.

 

[I am Jack]

Are you saying that I'm a sinless monster with good hygiene standards?

Straight to the big footy lock up for you - "he's an absolute monster".
I certainly feel threatened by him, haha.