Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[kfc1]

He was talking about a situation where guys make jokes about being tough and it's all a joke but when a woman does it the joke becomes oppressive manipulation.

My point was that it was already oppressive manipulation by men of men.
I actually think it's done by small strength (internal) men struggling with something to other men in order to keep the playing field level. How dare another man be brave enough to cry, or talk about how he feels. You're all islands remember? That is the culture that is killing young men.

Get your s**t in the open, realise you're all going through it and get through it as a team. That's what men are way better than women at. You will all rally behind each other and jog along together.

Act. Belong. Commit.
The middle one is what men need to focus on, because men commit to their friends already.

Strange choice of language - "you" this, "yourselves" that
Not sure what tesseract has in common with other random people who happen to share the same type of genitals

 

[I am Jack]

It was an invitation to continue getting to your point.

You were telling me what the problem wasn't. Please tell me what the problem is.

Constructive constructive.

Actually I told you about the hidden epidemic that is male suicide, and while male suicide mightn't be a problem for you - that does not mean that it is not a problem for others. The world does not revolve around you Taylor. Outside of big footy, there is actually a lot of males feeling the strain and taking their lives, so yes, it is an issue - and it is an issue right now.

Domestic violence is a current issue, there is no doubt about that. It just appears that this issue isn't perpetrated solely by males, so this running narrative that domestic violence is always instigated and perpetrated by men - is also a problem, and it is a problem at the present. I pointed out that this is finger pointing and blame shifting, and it does not identify the cause of domestic violence, and until these advocates can get serious and admit that domestic violence does not discriminate in gender - the issue of domestic violence will not subside IMO.

 

[Chief]

So are we on to anything new or is it all just the resident twits crying about how nice girls don't like them and women get their own way all the time?

 

[I am Jack]

So are we on to anything new or is it all just the resident twits crying about how nice girls don't like them and women get their own way all the time?

We were actually talking about the hidden epidemic of male suicide, would you care to touch on it?

 

[Taylor]

Actually I told you about the hidden epidemic that is male suicide, and while male suicide mightn't be a problem for you - that does not mean that it is not a problem for others. The world does not revolve around you Taylor. Outside of big footy, there is actually a lot of males feeling the strain and taking their lives, so yes, it is an issue - and it is an issue right now.

Domestic violence is a current issue, there is no doubt about that. It just appears that this issue isn't perpetrated solely by males, so this running narrative that domestic violence is always instigated and perpetrated by men - is also a problem, and it is a problem at the present. I pointed out that this is finger pointing and blame shifting, and it does not identify the cause of domestic violence, and until these advocates can get serious and admit that domestic violence does not discriminate in gender - the issue of domestic violence will not subside IMO.

Have you read any of my posts so far? The ones where I'm only talking about men killing themselves?

 

[Taylor]

Strange choice of language - "you" this, "yourselves" that
Not sure what tesseract has in common with other random people who happen to share the same type of genitals

I can't both be excluded from a group when discussing the use of terms like "man up" (where he said that when guys do it is just a joke but women saying it is manipulation) and then attacked for being excluded from a group.

I didn't make this a man only issue, he did

 

[I am Jack]

Have you read any of my posts so far? The ones where I'm only talking about men killing themselves?

You invited me to get to my point, I got to my point.

 

[Chief]

We were actually talking about the hidden epidemic of male suicide, would you care to touch on it?

Hidden?

 

[I am Jack]

I can't both be excluded from a group when discussing the use of terms like "man up" (where he said that when guys do it is just a joke but women saying it is manipulation) and then attacked for being excluded from a group.

I didn't make this a man only issue, he did

What are guys supposed to 'man up' to exactly? The fact they are being bent over by the courts and family law system?
Are guys supposed to 'man up' and accept a lesser deal just because they are a man?

 

[clogged]

We were actually talking about the hidden epidemic of male suicide, would you care to touch on it?

Where is it hidden, and how is it an epidemic?

 

[I am Jack]

Hidden?

Absolutely. When domestic violence is a national emergency and the number represent a fraction of deaths than male suicide, I'd say it's fairly well hidden.
Conveniently hidden in fact. I believe it is hidden because a lot of suicides are partially attributed to the family law system and CSA, which is something that would not help this domestic violence push one bit. If the harsh family laws for men were changed to be more reasonable for men - that is opposing what the domestic violence advocates are pushing for, they want harsher laws for men, they want men monitored, and they (men) are all sole perpetrators of domestic violence - apparently.

 

[Taylor]

Can everyone come clean on their huge bias here?

Mine is that I want my male friends to be able to express anything that makes them healthier mentally.

 

[Taylor]

What are guys supposed to 'man up' to exactly? The fact they are being bent over by the courts and family law system?
Are guys supposed to 'man up' and accept a lesser deal just because they are a man?

You're so rabid on your point, which I agree with by the way, that you are missing the entirety of mine in order to get back to talking about your own.

We absolutely need to fix injustice in the courts.

Now let's get back to how men are creating a culture with other men that doesn't encourage expressions of "weakness"

 

[I am Jack]

Can everyone come clean on their huge bias here?

Mine is that I want my male friends to be able to express anything that makes them healthier mentally.

So you want fairer, reasonable and a more equal family law system for men? That is fantastic news Taylor.

 

[clogged]

I believe it is hidden because a lot of suicides are partially attributed to the family law system and CSA

Really.

 

[I am Jack]

Really.

Absolutely, there is no doubt at that.
It is unreasonable to suggest that Fathers who are kept away from their children - would be more likely to commit suicide?
Fathers who are kept away from their children, yet still have to pay a decent amount of their wage to the person holding their children hostage.
All in the name of family law. You seriously don't think that there would be no correlation?

 

[clogged]

Absolutely, there is no doubt at that.
It is unreasonable to suggest that Fathers who are kept away from their children - would be more likely to commit suicide?
Fathers who are kept away from their children, yet still have to pay a decent amount of their wage to the person holding their children hostage.
All in the name of family law. You seriously don't think that there would be no correlation?

All I read here are weasel words. If anything suicide is on the decline.

 

[Chief]

Absolutely. When domestic violence is a national emergency and the number represent a fraction of deaths than male suicide, I'd say it's fairly well hidden.

Yes it is not getting as much press at the moment, but it isn't ignored.

The biggest problem with reporting on suicide is that we know it sparks copycats. We know it jumps when it gets publicity.

Conveniently hidden in fact. I believe it is hidden because a lot of suicides are partially attributed to the family law system and CSA,

Yeah I don't know about that. There is plenty of economics in there, as well as isolation, drug use and mental health issues.

which is something that would not help this domestic violence push one bit. If the harsh family laws for men were changed to be more reasonable for men - that is opposing what the domestic violence advocates are pushing for, they want harsher laws for men, they want men monitored, and they (men) are all sole perpetrators of domestic violence - apparently.

How did I know this would come back to bleating about women getting favoured treatment?

Nobody has said men are the sole perpetrators. In a domestic violence situation, most of the time you'll find a man committing the assaults. That's just a fact.

 

[I am Jack]

All I read here are weasel words. Most male suicides occur under the age of 30 and over the age of 60.

Suicides rates increased sharply with the introduction of CSA and there is a correlation between Fatherhood age and suicide.
In fact I think it is even on this thread somewhere.

 

[BORK]

Where is it hidden, and how is it an epidemic?

1901 males in Australia died from suicide in 2012. I would suggest there were under 100 female domestic violence deaths the same year. I know there is a big difference between murder and suicide but those numbers may open your eyes when downplaying whether it is an epidemic when a death every week from domestic violence is described as a national emergency.

 

[I am Jack]

Yes it is not getting as much press at the moment, but it isn't ignored.

The biggest problem with reporting on suicide is that we know it sparks copycats. We know it jumps when it gets publicity.


Yeah I don't know about that. There is plenty of economics in there, as well as isolation, drug use and mental health issues.


How did I know this would come back to bleating about women getting favoured treatment?

Nobody has said men are the sole perpetrators. In a domestic violence situation, most of the time you'll find a man committing the assaults. That's just a fact.

That is obvious, because women get favourable treatment throughout the family law process, that isn't even a whinge, that is just a fact.
The fact they get primary custody in nearly every instance highlights the fact they do get favourable treatment.

 

[clogged]

Suicides rates increased sharply with the introduction of CSA and there is a correlation between Fatherhood age and suicide.
In fact I think it is even on this thread somewhere.

Evidence?

Suicide rates in Australia peaked in 1963 (17.5 per 100,000), declining to 11.3 per 100,000 in 1984, and climbing back to 14.6 in 1997. Rates have been lower than this since that year. The age-standardised suicide rate for persons in 2012 was 11.2 per 100,000.

http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats

 

[clogged]

1901 males in Australia died from suicide in 2012. I would suggest there were under 100 female domestic violence deaths the same year. I know there is a big difference between murder and suicide but those numbers may open your eyes when downplaying whether it is an epidemic when a death every week from domestic violence is described as a national emergency.

Have you ever noticed that when a newspaper reports on a suicide they never refer to it as such. But often reference Lifeline at the bottom.

It's downplayed for a reason. Whether that's a good reason, who knows. But it's not a conspiracy of silence aimed against men, despite what lunatics would have you believe.

 

[I am Jack]

Evidence?



http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats

In 1999 at Deakin University suicide prevention social scientist Dr Chris Cantor and colleagues Baume and McTaggart researched Australian male suicides and found 42 a week suicide – 32 were in family separation – ages mainly between 24 and 34 years old – 21 were child support payers Or 74% are in family separation and 50% are child support payers.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I don't think there would be any surprise that a significant number of suicide attempts of both me and women stem from broken relationships.