Vic The joke that is the Victorian Liberal Party.

[Romeoh1]

an interesting f*** you to pesutto from one of the conservative rights big hitters [interesting back story if i heard correctly - riordans wife works for the health service .... and riordan himself served for 10 years on the health service board]

Heard him on radio this morning - he didn’t sound as much of an eejit as pesutto and co. Low bar, I know.

 

[Jascave]

If Moira Deeming wins her case against John Pesutto, expect to see Vic Liberal leadership speculation go up by 100%. The problem for the Liberals though, who are the candidates to take over from Pesutto?

 

[The Punter]

If Moira Deeming wins her case against John Pesutto, expect to see Vic Liberal leadership speculation go up by 100%. The problem for the Liberals though, who are the candidates to take over from Pesutto?

There's only two results that can happen from this court case:

1. Mrs Deeming loses, she is damaged
2. Mrs Deeming wins, both Mr Pesutto and Mrs Deeming are damaged

If it gets to trial, she must testify, and once she is deposed by Mr Pesutto's lawyers, her political career is effectively over.

 

[Crankyhawk]

an interesting f*** you to pesutto from one of the conservative rights big hitters [interesting back story if i heard correctly - riordans wife works for the health service .... and riordan himself served for 10 years on the health service board]

Usually when we get a ministerial visit we are told to make sure that we optimise patients going to the ward and not look like there are ambulances ramped…

 

[peetoo]

When opp leader Abbott visited the vicroads op centre for a photo opp of congestion on eastern freeway when spruiking EW link, he had to wait over an hour for anything like congestion on the big screen to stand in front of

 

[Jascave]

There's only two results that can happen from this court case:

1. Mrs Deeming loses, she is damaged
2. Mrs Deeming wins, both Mr Pesutto and Mrs Deeming are damaged

If it gets to trial, she must testify, and once she is deposed by Mr Pesutto's lawyers, her political career is effectively over.

If it does get to trial, the evidence heard in court could be hugely embarassing and damaging for the Victorian branch of the Liberal Party-and it could force the Nationals to reconsider their long-standing 'partnership/alliance' with the Liberals. Could it be payback for the Liberals, when under the then Leader of the Opposition, John Howard had decided that the Liberals to walk away from its agreement with its regional counterparts during the 'Joh for PM' debacle in 1987?

 

[Saint]

When opp leader Abbott visited the vicroads op centre for a photo opp of congestion on eastern freeway when spruiking EW link, he had to wait over an hour for anything like congestion on the big screen to stand in front of

Once NEL is finished, the queues back from Hoddle Street will be astronomical for most daylight hours.

 

[peetoo]

Once NEL is finished, the queues back from Hoddle Street will be astronomical for most daylight hours.

That is completely against all the modelling done. But it’s been wrong before

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Once NEL is finished, the queues back from Hoddle Street will be astronomical for most daylight hours.

And if EWL was built the exact same thing would happen.

 

[Saint]

That is completely against all the modelling done. But it’s been wrong before

I thought that can't be true (it won't be), and found you're right, the model they used showed that in 2036 there would be the same amount of traffic on Hoddle Street in the peak period as there is in 2017.

Traffic on the Eastern Freeway on that approach is going up by 25% (2,200 vehicles), while it says Alex Pde is going up 500 (17%) and Hoddle St (sthbnd) is up 100 vehicles (2%) and Hoddle Nbnd is unchanged.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/524441/Technical-report-A-Traffic-and-transport.pdf

Page 930 of the PDF

2,200 vehicles over 2 hours is a whole lane of freeway traffic, more like 1 on each of these busy arterials.





They left Hoddle interchange out of the microsimulation. Then they used their imaginary numbers where the Freeway grows but Hoddle and Alex Parade don't and voila.....

Page 713 has an estimate of how much the CityLinkn Tunnels make in a year (~$700m in today's money)

Their strategic traffic model also shows traffic going a lot faster in the Hoddle Street section than observed, so the model is over-estimating performance for that section by quite a bit.



Keep in mind if they're using VLC's Zenith model, it's because DTP didn't like the results of their own Cube model that they usually use.

So yes, I fully expect significantly worse traffic on Hoddle and Alex Parade and this report gives me no reason to think otherwise (they didn't actually bother modelling it)

 

[Saint]

And if EWL was built the exact same thing would happen.

Well, it would connect all the people using Alex Parade all the way from the Eastern Freeway to the WGTP and Tullamarine.

That was the plan all along, it's just the LNP wanted to build EWL first when they kept getting told to build that bit last.

It'll be demanded (EWL) by everybody at the next election. Even the Greens will want it (those are their seats which will be gridlocked for the AM and PM Peak and a good chunk of Saturday).

 

[The Punter]

Well, it would connect all the people using Alex Parade all the way from the Eastern Freeway to the WGTP and Tullamarine.

That was the plan all along, it's just the LNP wanted to build EWL first when they kept getting told to build that bit last.

It'll be demanded (EWL) by everybody at the next election. Even the Greens will want it (those are their seats which will be gridlocked for the AM and PM Peak and a good chunk of Saturday).

I would suggest the Greens Party response to that will be "get people out of cars".

 

[Crankyhawk]

I would suggest the Greens Party response to that will be "get people out of cars".

Yes they hate us outer suburbs plebs. Or call for magically more public transit- it’s not profitable so no one runs lines in the direction i need at the times I need

 

[Saint]

I would suggest the Greens Party response to that will be "get people out of cars".

I agree, but the gridlock of cars passing through will have them even questioning that. It's going to be bad. Entirely forseeable, just like what's gone on in Sydney after the last couple of freeway openings.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Well, it would connect all the people using Alex Parade all the way from the Eastern Freeway to the WGTP and Tullamarine.

That was the plan all along, it's just the LNP wanted to build EWL first when they kept getting told to build that bit last.

It'll be demanded (EWL) by everybody at the next election. Even the Greens will want it (those are their seats which will be gridlocked for the AM and PM Peak and a good chunk of Saturday).

The problem with EWL is where does the traffic go. The vast majority of traffic using the Eastern get off at Hoddle Street to go to the city.
With EWL the vast majority of traffic will still get off at Hoddle Street.

I would suggest the Greens Party response to that will be "get people out of cars".

That's the only way to fix congestion. Public transport thats usable and better active connections.

 

[peetoo]

It’s significant that the western part of the eastern has virtually no trucks. The rest of melbournes freeways main arteries not so much. You’d imagine NEL would not change this EWL certainly would have
Some parts of Melbourne are absolutely choked by trucks

 

[Saint]

The problem with EWL is where does the traffic go. The vast majority of traffic using the Eastern get off at Hoddle Street to go to the city.
With EWL the vast majority of traffic will still get off at Hoddle Street.

That's the only way to fix congestion. Public transport thats usable and better active connections.

I agree that PT is best, but once you build a freeway connection to the west and a freeway connection to the east, it's best to join them up.

The split of traffic between Hoddle and Alex Parade at the end of the Eastern is 5,000 along Hoddle and 4,000 along Alexandra Parade. Favours Hoddle, but not by much. It's the quickest way to the Airport (and north-west Melbourne) from the Eastern suburbs all the way back past Ringwood.

 

[The Punter]

From Ballarat (I live near there) getting to the North-East of Melbourne is very difficult.

Also worth pointing out that the full EWL would have separated the traffic coming from Geelong and the traffic coming from Ballarat. The implemented alternative does not.

 

[peetoo]

I agree that PT is best, but once you build a freeway connection to the west and a freeway connection to the east, it's best to join them up.

The split of traffic between Hoddle and Alex Parade at the end of the Eastern is 5,000 along Hoddle and 4,000 along Alexandra Parade. Favours Hoddle, but not by much. It's the quickest way to the Airport (and north-west Melbourne) from the Eastern suburbs all the way back past Ringwood.

The Abbott bailleu ewl woul have had the west part join the tulla at a different point form the east part, so as well as bing choked by itself all sorts of cross town traffic would have swamped it too.

Part of NEL is also to widen the eastern as appropriate.

And guys -freight and trucks- PT is not going to replace those

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There’s a definite dearth of talent in the libs. Both state and federal that is actually hard to understand.

The Libs were never the "broad church" that they claimed to be, however they did have some slightly more moderate voices that were more palatable to the electorate. They've more or less been chased out of the party by hard right and religious nutters.

The LNP has absolutely lurched to the right over the past twenty years, which is the opposite way to the community. They have no hope of attracting more mainstream "talent".

The other factor is the ongoing, single biggest threat to their existence: the fall of the corporate media. That's not just an issue for conservatives in Australia, and no conservatives anywhere have really found a way to deal with it. The capture and cooperation of major media was a core part of the way they did business - they relied heavily on the media to drive their talking points and distract the electorate. In terms of individual politicians, they were able to better construct their image as required. Howard was a useless, sniveling little turd that nobody took seriously and who had absolutely nothing going for him. He was given a very successful makeover and the media played a fair part in that.

The media just no longer has the reach to do that. In broad terms - people just don't read newspapers, watch TV or listen to talkback radio any more.

I think it's actually a fatal blow for the LNP - they can't be successful without their PR arm in the media.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The Abbott bailleu ewl woul have had the west part join the tulla at a different point form the east part, so as well as bing choked by itself all sorts of cross town traffic would have swamped it too.

Part of NEL is also to widen the eastern as appropriate.

And guys -freight and trucks- PT is not going to replace those

Freight particularly stuff from Dandenong should really be a freight train.

Outside the gauge difference its hard to run a freight with the busiest train line in Melbourne

 

[peetoo]

Freight particularly stuff from Dandenong should really be a freight train.

Outside the gauge difference its hard to run a freight with the busiest train line in Melbourne

Freight train? For some reason I’m hearing deliverance music.

All the stuff we buy online? Or in stores? Freight

 

[Romeoh1]

The Libs were never the "broad church" that they claimed to be, however they did have some slightly more moderate voices that were more palatable to the electorate. They've more or less been chased out of the party by hard right and religious nutters.

The LNP has absolutely lurched to the right over the past twenty years, which is the opposite way to the community. They have no hope of attracting more mainstream "talent".

The other factor is the ongoing, single biggest threat to their existence: the fall of the corporate media. That's not just an issue for conservatives in Australia, and no conservatives anywhere have really found a way to deal with it. The capture and cooperation of major media was a core part of the way they did business - they relied heavily on the media to drive their talking points and distract the electorate. In terms of individual politicians, they were able to better construct their image as required. Howard was a useless, sniveling little turd that nobody took seriously and who had absolutely nothing going for him. He was given a very successful makeover and the media played a fair part in that.

The media just no longer has the reach to do that. In broad terms - people just don't read newspapers, watch TV or listen to talkback radio any more.

I think it's actually a fatal blow for the LNP - they can't be successful without their PR arm in the media.

Yep- great summation. Agree with it all.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Freight train? For some reason I’m hearing deliverance music.

All the stuff we buy online? Or in stores? Freight

A lot of that stuff gets carted on freight trains. Particularly interstate.

 

[leon123]

It’s very deliberate. SRL stops are at Monash Clayton, Burwood (Deakin) and Bundoora (La Trobe).

The idea is to create knowledge / research / work hubs. The Monash hub will likely be heavily focused on medical, with Monash hospital constantly being upgraded and the new heart hospital now open on the uni campus.

it also results in opening housing devt opportunities.. connected to transport. Melbourne within 20 years will exhaust greenfield land supply