Carlton in the Media (articles, podcasts etc)

[The_Wookie]

We've been there, do well after being really poor for a while, finish 5th, expect big things then bomb right out of finals the following year. Don't want it! In all seriousness, it would be great to play finals this season but I'm happy for a slower build if it means prolonged success. In saying that, our older guys aren't too bad, we have a core of decent players, you'd be surprised how much adding a handful of talented youngsters to that sort of group can bunk a side up, regardless of how far back they are coming.

I believe we always had the talent, contrary to most. I believe we've been poorly coached and poorly disciplined, and had some poor luck along the way. I believe we as a club failed our players and supporters. I believe that with the right outlook, the right coach, the right training and the right gameplan, we're going to vastly exceed most peoples lowly expectations for 2016. Damn it all, im tipping finals this year.

 

[gbatman]

I believe we always had the talent, contrary to most. I believe we've been poorly coached and poorly disciplined, and had some poor luck along the way. I believe we as a club failed our players and supporters. I believe that with the right outlook, the right coach, the right training and the right gameplan, we're going to vastly exceed most peoples lowly expectations for 2016. Damn it all, im tipping finals this year.

I certainly have different opinions, I believe we've only ever been as good as our results have shown, always had some top end talent but too thin to go the journey. Finals this season. I just can't help but think we may have landed ourselves a bit of a superdraft. I don't want to count my chickens before they have hatched, it's a lot to ask our first year players to impact. But hey, we still have a decent top end and unlike last year our core group seem in reasonable nick. If these young guys, who look like they could impact in their first season actually come in and go well, we're a decent chance to play finals. Either way it's a lot to ask and it's a lot to ask us to sustain it for the whole season, definitely going to be some good periods, that's for sure.

 

[The_Wookie]

I certainly have different opinions, I believe we've only ever been as good as our results have shown, always had some top end talent but too thin to go the journey. Finals this season. I just can't help but think we may have landed ourselves a bit of a superdraft. I don't want to count my chickens before they have hatched, it's a lot to ask our first year players to impact. But hey, we still have a decent top end and unlike last year our core group seem in reasonable nick. If these young guys, who look like they could impact in their first season actually come in and go well, we're a decent chance to play finals. Either way it's a lot to ask and it's a lot to ask us to sustain it for the whole season, definitely going to be some good periods, that's for sure.

Everyone has different opinions. me i like to get hyped at the start of the season - counting chickens before they hatch? Im counting them before they are even eggs! I typically find the longer i stay out of this forum after the season starts the longer my hype lasts.

 

[Wiggo4PM]

I was going through the AFL Prospectus, which has all the ratings. One thing you have to remember is that it is based on last years stats which for a lot of our guys was a career worst year. Last year we did have a few who rated elite.

The Champion Data guys really tear us a new one and even criticise draft selections like McKay and Cuningham. They really like the Saints though, they like little guys who rack up stats as juniors. I really don't get why people keep saying the Saints have great young players, sure they have some talent like Bruce, Billings and Goddard showed a bit last year and McCartin is obviously highly regarded as a junior, but their young midfield talent is terrible, they are still a long way off. They won 2 more games than us last year on the back of their old guys.

This, the saints are terrible and they are only what...where we are in terms of competitiveness. I do not rate them at all and wont for a long time. Wont stop their idiotic supporters though. McCartin is a bust in my opinion. I liked the bit about Rice a week or so ago when AFL.com was rating the youngsters at the club - basically said he was struggling hard with pre season as it was a rude shock to his system...question...what was he doing at saints in the leadup to being drafted ? sitting in teh clubhouse playing the pokies ? Anyway, never met a more deluded stupid fanbase than the saints. Still haven't met a saint supporter I liked that wasn't a complete ******* dickhead.

 

[ParapMarkets]

This, the saints are terrible and they are only what...where we are in terms of competitiveness. I do not rate them at all and wont for a long time. Wont stop their idiotic supporters though. McCartin is a bust in my opinion. I liked the bit about Rice a week or so ago when AFL.com was rating the youngsters at the club - basically said he was struggling hard with pre season as it was a rude shock to his system...question...what was he doing at saints in the leadup to being drafted ? sitting in teh clubhouse playing the pokies ? Anyway, never met a more deluded stupid fanbase than the saints. Still haven't met a saint supporter I liked that wasn't a complete ******* dickhead.

The Saints have definitely been given a sweetheart deal by the media when compared to other lowly teams that's for sure. We have been ridiculed from pillar to post for our supposed terrible decision to draft Boekhorst, and that selection seems to be a favourite among Saints fans as one of the biggest drafting blunders of all time (irregardless of his late season form).

Blunders like the drafting of a 22 year old Tom Lee or Hickey never seem to get a mention. Everybody just keeps saying "oh yeah, there doing so well and the are building in the right direction". The first time I have heard anyone in the media question their rebuild was David King when discussing the Carlisle suspension. If they have another season down the bottom where their b & f is dominated once again by the old guys I think things will change.

 

[Blue For Life]

I believe we always had the talent, contrary to most. I believe we've been poorly coached and poorly disciplined, and had some poor luck along the way. I believe we as a club failed our players and supporters. I believe that with the right outlook, the right coach, the right training and the right gameplan, we're going to vastly exceed most peoples lowly expectations for 2016. Damn it all, im tipping finals this year.

We had some decent talent, yes that's true, what we didn't have was the right demographic in regards to an age balanced list, our best player to our worst, the gap was just to far to really remain competitive, our player development was just non existent, attacking the draft to bring in young talent, well we were good at giving away our early picks, not having real talent to bring into the side made it extremely difficult, bullshit game plans, poor culture and the fact not all players were on the same page. Again you are correct, it's what was missing that didn't allow for better performances, it's the missing aspects that didn't allow our talent to have some level of success.

 

[AceAndy]

Any reason as to why you think that?

Thats what i took from the Trigg article said we were starting a long way behind. Just wondered what the actual percentage is.

 

[Red Bull]

The Saints have definitely been given a sweetheart deal by the media when compared to other lowly teams that's for sure. We have been ridiculed from pillar to post for our supposed terrible decision to draft Boekhorst, and that selection seems to be a favourite among Saints fans as one of the biggest drafting blunders of all time (irregardless of his late season form).

Blunders like the drafting of a 22 year old Tom Lee or Hickey never seem to get a mention. Everybody just keeps saying "oh yeah, there doing so well and the are building in the right direction". The first time I have heard anyone in the media question their rebuild was David King when discussing the Carlisle suspension. If they have another season down the bottom where their b & f is dominated once again by the old guys I think things will change.

Finnis has definitely made the Saints the most accessible , media friendly club in the league .
Richardson seems to be available to the media in any way required 24/7 .
The return from the lazy AFL media , is the positive coverage of the club that we see .
That's all well and good in the short term but if the club’s ladder position doesn't soon start to match the positive media reviews , the faithful will start to get agitated .
I'm not that rapt in the Saints list , I've got a few Saints mates talking the talk atm but i believe with the work we did over the trading/drafting period as a foundation , we will soon enough go straight past them in a climb back to competitiveness and regular finals footy .

 

[ferrisb]

Saints have hit the draft hard last few years, I see their rebuild as ahead of ours.

They have lots of young top end talent (more than us IMHO) and a bunch of stars at the other end of the curve. Astonishingly little to speak of in between.

Funnily enough the mathematical term for that kind of spread also matches their fanbase - dumbbell distribution.

 

[Blue Pulse]

I was going through the AFL Prospectus, which has all the ratings. One thing you have to remember is that it is based on last years stats which for a lot of our guys was a career worst year. Last year we did have a few who rated elite.

The Champion Data guys really tear us a new one and even criticise draft selections like McKay and Cuningham. They really like the Saints though, they like little guys who rack up stats as juniors. I really don't get why people keep saying the Saints have great young players, sure they have some talent like Bruce, Billings and Goddard showed a bit last year and McCartin is obviously highly regarded as a junior, but their young midfield talent is terrible, they are still a long way off. They won 2 more games than us last year on the back of their old guys.

Stats can be pretty over rated and blown out of proportion with todays game when teams go into keeping off style game. Stat are handy for fantasy leagues but that's about it from my point of view. I like to watch how a player gets the ball, what he does with it, what he does with out it and if he has footy smarts and works for his team mates.
Watch for the few players who pick up a cheap stat after a behind, who kick out to themselves and then kick short so that they get a possession for a cheap kick. ( not mentioning any names Goddard and Montagna) Our stats last year after the first 3 games meant nothing as the effort shown was poor.

 

[HBF]

Don't know. Has been a boy's club as Trigg admits.

Boorish behaviour from some players, some ex presidents, some fans. We haven't embraced the family vibe until recently so maybe that keeps a lot of mothers and daughters away.

Always see alot of women attending our games right throughout the age spectrum.

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

Well if you're saying I can't cherrypick stats from AFLplayertables.com, that's like 90% of my posts gone right there.

One time I had this thread on the Bay that proved Hampson's first two years were superior to (I think) Ryder's and Bellchamber's, I reckon it ran out to about twenty pages of furious keyboard mashing from the red sash crew.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Always see alot of women attending our games right throughout the age spectrum.

No doubt. Trigg Is talking about female membership being under 30% and lowest in the league though, not that webdon't have female supporters.

I do think we lack a family dynamic.

Mind you 30% female attendance is still strong. You are still seeing 1 in 3 fans being female but supposedly other clubs have a higher ratio.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Stats can be pretty over rated and blown out of proportion with todays game when teams go into keeping off style game. Stat are handy for fantasy leagues but that's about it from my point of view. I like to watch how a player gets the ball, what he does with it, what he does with out it and if he has footy smarts and works for his team mates.
Watch for the few players who pick up a cheap stat after a behind, who kick out to themselves and then kick short so that they get a possession for a cheap kick. ( not mentioning any names Goddard and Montagna) Our stats last year after the first 3 games meant nothing as the effort shown was poor.

Cheap stats will show themselves though. Less contested possessions, uncontested possessions with less running bounces than expected. Disproportionate rebound 50s vs inside 50s for a midfielder showing a lack of work rate.

 

[blueboy25]

This, the saints are terrible and they are only what...where we are in terms of competitiveness. I do not rate them at all and wont for a long time. Wont stop their idiotic supporters though. McCartin is a bust in my opinion. I liked the bit about Rice a week or so ago when AFL.com was rating the youngsters at the club - basically said he was struggling hard with pre season as it was a rude shock to his system...question...what was he doing at saints in the leadup to being drafted ? sitting in teh clubhouse playing the pokies ? Anyway, never met a more deluded stupid fanbase than the saints. Still haven't met a saint supporter I liked that wasn't a complete ******* dickhead.

Their is talk that Rice has glandular fever which is why he has struggled at training.

 

[AceAndy]

No doubt. Trigg Is talking about female membership being under 30% and lowest in the league though, not that webdon't have female supporters.

I do think we lack a family dynamic.

Mind you 30% female attendance is still strong. You are still seeing 1 in 3 fans being female but supposedly other clubs have a higher ratio.

What is it others are doing to create a family dynamic?

What steps can the club take to capture these additional members?

 

[Jatz]

Their is talk that Rice has glandular fever which is why he has struggled at training.

That's been confirmed.

 

[blueboy25]

That's been confirmed.

You can pretty much write off his first two years then.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

What is it others are doing to create a family dynamic?

What steps can the club take to capture these additional members?

I wonder what other clubs do to engage children?

When I meet new people out and about, or talk to women that I've known for years, if the conversation turns to football I generally hear the same line, every time:
"Oh yeah, I used to love going to the footy, and then I had kids!"

Obviously when kids are teeny tiny, the football is not a great environment for them. It's freezing, it's loud, there's thousands of people everywhere, etc...but if we can get kids interested in footy from that teeny tiny age, when they're ready to go to games (say, at 5 or 6) why can't mum take them? Are these little ones Carlton supporters? I've noticed that mums will generally jump on whoever their children follow if they didn't have a team previously.

 

[Jatz]

You can pretty much write off his first two years then.

2 years will be a stretch. Think he'll struggle a bit this season though.

 

[Jatz]

I wonder what other clubs do to engage children?

When I meet new people out and about, or talk to women that I've known for years, if the conversation turns to football I generally hear the same line, every time:
"Oh yeah, I used to love going to the footy, and then I had kids!"

Obviously when kids are teeny tiny, the football is not a great environment for them. It's freezing, it's loud, there's thousands of people everywhere, etc...but if we can get kids interested in footy from that teeny tiny age, when they're ready to go to games (say, at 5 or 6) why can't mum take them? Are these little ones Carlton supporters? I've noticed that mums will generally jump on whoever their children follow if they didn't have a team previously.

A lot of that comes down to success I'd imagine. Kids always want to go for the 'good' teams.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

A lot of that comes down to success I'd imagine. Kids always want to go for the 'good' teams.

Not necessarily. I know a few Saints supporting children, because a few players (including Riewoldt) have been to their school for clinics...this is in Doncaster, nowhere near Saints "traditional" areas.

With kids I think you just need to get in their ears early (which is why I signed my nephew up as a member the day he was named!).

 

[AceAndy]

2 years will be a stretch. Think he'll struggle a bit this season though.

Glandular fever is quite debilitating, wouldnt surprise if he took a couple of years to fully recover.

 

[HBF]

That's been confirmed.

Had it last year as well apparently.

 

[Jatz]

Not necessarily. I know a few Saints supporting children, because a few players (including Riewoldt) have been to their school for clinics...this is in Doncaster, nowhere near Saints "traditional" areas.

With kids I think you just need to get in their ears early (which is why I signed my nephew up as a member the day he was named!).

Oh there's definitely that aspect as well.

I've just heard of lot's of kids not wanting to support the same club as their parents because the club is no good and they get teased at school/footy training/where ever. The Demons are the ones that come to mind in recent times with kids not wanting to be associated with the club.

I do agree that there is likely multiple aspects to it. I tried to be a Hawthorn supporter as a 7 year old and was told in no uncertain terms that I would need to find a new home if I didn't support Carlton. My poor future children are getting the same message