Gillard's AWU/Wilson past about to haunt her?
- Thread starter Dry Rot
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GJ would think that any member of the LNP capable of shitting in their own pants was a star
I think this Royal Commission set a bad precedent that the ALP will invariably follow. There should have been better and cleaner ways to demonstrate the obvious problems the trade union movement has inside its ranks.
On the other hand, the ACTU's and the ALP's actions in this matter are merely self-interested. And that's fine, it's just that you should be honest about where you are coming from. The CFMEU is extremely effective in representing its members. It's part of the reason why companies decided to engage and talk to Shorten's AWU instead. And it certainly appears that Shorten and some of these companies had mutually beneficial relationships that were not necessarily also beneficial to the people Shorten was representing.
But all that gets lost because of the mechanism used for bringing it out in the open. A lot of money has been spent for what it essentially a political battle that could have been conducted in cheaper and cleaner fashion. And it opens the door into the "Royal Commission into Damien Mantach", or even worse, a Federal ICAC which would become the star chamber that all the states ICACs (except Victoria's, which is pretty toothless in comparison) have become. Remember Barry O'Farrell didn't resign because he accepted a $5000 bottle of wine: he resigned because he forgot about it, was asked about it under oath and misled ICAC. It shouldn't be that easy to force a Premier to resign.
I think the money could have been better spent and the stuff about Shorten probably would have come out anyway.
On the other hand, the ACTU's and the ALP's actions in this matter are merely self-interested. And that's fine, it's just that you should be honest about where you are coming from. The CFMEU is extremely effective in representing its members. It's part of the reason why companies decided to engage and talk to Shorten's AWU instead. And it certainly appears that Shorten and some of these companies had mutually beneficial relationships that were not necessarily also beneficial to the people Shorten was representing.
But all that gets lost because of the mechanism used for bringing it out in the open. A lot of money has been spent for what it essentially a political battle that could have been conducted in cheaper and cleaner fashion. And it opens the door into the "Royal Commission into Damien Mantach", or even worse, a Federal ICAC which would become the star chamber that all the states ICACs (except Victoria's, which is pretty toothless in comparison) have become. Remember Barry O'Farrell didn't resign because he accepted a $5000 bottle of wine: he resigned because he forgot about it, was asked about it under oath and misled ICAC. It shouldn't be that easy to force a Premier to resign.
I think the money could have been better spent and the stuff about Shorten probably would have come out anyway.
One question to be answered this morning
Will the QCs and juniors representing the unions have the guts to advise their clients to injunct the Commission?
Another is:
Leftie l*uvvies on BF seem to be running away from taking on Dyson in the courts. Gutless wonders.
Will Billy the Shortman lead the charge to the door?
Will the QCs and juniors representing the unions have the guts to advise their clients to injunct the Commission?
Another is:
Leftie l*uvvies on BF seem to be running away from taking on Dyson in the courts. Gutless wonders.
Will Billy the Shortman lead the charge to the door?
Maggie5
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I loved the fact that lawyers were not present when Heydon delivered his response, tipped off? Or knew his arrogance wouldn't allow him to give up a nice earner.
Still a number of gaps relating to the timeline of when he learned of the Fairfax release. Not answered in the 67 pages. Maybe that part was an attachment?
Can't wait to hear who will be the first witness to say they are computer illiterate and overlooked attachments.
Edit: Also, I wonder how a memory failure, can't recall equates to 'overlooking' an attachment?
He found that unacceptable yet his is acceptable. Wow.
Still a number of gaps relating to the timeline of when he learned of the Fairfax release. Not answered in the 67 pages. Maybe that part was an attachment?
Can't wait to hear who will be the first witness to say they are computer illiterate and overlooked attachments.
Edit: Also, I wonder how a memory failure, can't recall equates to 'overlooking' an attachment?
He found that unacceptable yet his is acceptable. Wow.
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Power Raid
We Exist To Win Premierships
can't beat the RC on merits and concealment alone? they have to resort to sluring the RC and Dyson Heydon.
fortunately they haven't one, other than in the eyes of cheerleaders.
One day we will rid the unions (very important organisations) from the the criminal elements and fush out the criminal corporates who play their game. We will also one day have an society that opens their eyes to crime and how this actually hurts the poor the most.
Maggie this is NOT an attack on unions.....its an attack on crime. So you don't need to get so defensive. The unions will be far better organisations without the criminal elements and serve their members better if they are clean and focused on the job rather than kickbacks, laundering, racketeering, extortion and other crimes.
Maggie5
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Before you jump in with your same old same old, check my previous posts. I have never supported corrupt unions/officials but there are many other departments (Federal Police, Crime Commission) that could have investigated and prosecuted them.
Stop using this incident as another excuse to union bash and finger pointing and for once speak to the matter of should Heydon have stepped down.
We didn't need a RC at a cost of $60M (so far), this is a political witch hunt.
If there is no bias, why did he cancel attendance?
Who is a fair minded lay person? Someone that has does not legal knowledge?
Well in that case most I have spoken with think he should have stepped down. Others with some knowledge of the legal system are undecided.
The QCs and juniors stayed away because they'd argued case was so bad.Dyson's judgement drips with derision. Obviously they were worried he would choose to read it out to watch them squirm in public.
But if they're not prepared to injunct they're not just turkeys. they're wet turkeys.
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Maggie5
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Ha ha, the Mistress of Spin.
Dyson's judgement drips with derision. Obviously they were worried he would choose to read it out to watch them squirm.
But if they're not prepared to injunct they're not just turkeys. they're wet turkeys.
They would be fools to take it further, they already are on a winner.
Wounded Heydon and in case anyone had missed it put the words 'bias and witch hunt' foremost in the public's mind.
I think you need to replace your Captain, he is make some very poor decisions.
The question in my mind over all this - why was he invited to speak in the first place? Surely those organising the function would have been aware of the situation and should have considered it inappropriate to invite him while the RC was still ongoing. It just adds to the perception that those in the Liberal party just can't help themselves, they really think they are born to rule and can just do as they please and help out their mates.
As for the unions, they need do nothing further now, just play along. Whatever findings the Heydon RC delivers now are tainted and all too easy to brush aside. Heydon probably made the best decision for them. They shouldn't force the issue further and get a replacement commissioner who is genuinely independent.
Unfortunately it means that nothing will be done about real criminal elements inside the trade union movement.
As for the unions, they need do nothing further now, just play along. Whatever findings the Heydon RC delivers now are tainted and all too easy to brush aside. Heydon probably made the best decision for them. They shouldn't force the issue further and get a replacement commissioner who is genuinely independent.
Unfortunately it means that nothing will be done about real criminal elements inside the trade union movement.
NSWCROW
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Dim campaigner Dutton reading Fairfax this morning........
Utter scum
Utter scum
The Garfield Barwick Lecture in 2014 was given by the Chief Justice of the High Court, so it was probably a thought process of "who would it be great to hear from this year".
If the Royal Commission is about politics, then it won't really matter if it is smeared. If the target is Mr Shorten, then all that needs to happen is a sufficient amount of mud to stick to render him unelectable.
And the point about real criminal elements is one well taken, but this was never going to be the best or most efficient way to get this done. Looking at this through the prism of realpolitik, those elements won't be dealt with until the ALP gets serious about dealing with those elements. The Coalition will always be smeared with the "witchhunt" brush if they come after them. The ALP is very useful for organisations like the CFMEU.
If the Royal Commission is about politics, then it won't really matter if it is smeared. If the target is Mr Shorten, then all that needs to happen is a sufficient amount of mud to stick to render him unelectable.
And the point about real criminal elements is one well taken, but this was never going to be the best or most efficient way to get this done. Looking at this through the prism of realpolitik, those elements won't be dealt with until the ALP gets serious about dealing with those elements. The Coalition will always be smeared with the "witchhunt" brush if they come after them. The ALP is very useful for organisations like the CFMEU.
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Power Raid
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1) "father"
2) I would hope a RC is a little more than a which hunt so I don't quite see the issue
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From the great BOB ELLIS
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So did i......
The invitation was to a dry and dusty ex High Court judge Heydon to deliver a dry, dusty, arcane legal oration to a roomful of dry, dusty QCS and QC wannabees at a dinner. The cheapskate $80 price was set deliberately low because otherwise none of the notoriously scrooge like legal fraternity would have gone to listen.
The invite wasn't to join in a fund raising back patting Liberal party gabfest because if it had been a fund grab for donations none of the aforementioned cheapskate QC would have forked out. But that's why it didn't enter the mind of the invite issuer.
The invite was also issued back at time when it was expected the RC would be over by the time the oration came along.
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Power Raid
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I think it doesn't help the cause of those trying to discredit Heydon by creating images like "father". It simply highlights that Heydon father shouldn't be overseeing the RC and that there is an agenda by those fearing the findings of the RC.
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NSWCROW
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throw mud and some will stick I guess. but seriously, is he conflicted because he was invited to a function? lol
good on him for telling the unions to put up or shut up. but clearly the unions have a little to fear if they don't want the findings of the RC released rather than waiting for the findings and disputing the facts.
play the man or play the game? I guess that depends on what you believe is your weakness.
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sherb
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No, he is conflicted because he accepted.
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I still don't understand how that is a conflict. Are the libs being assessed or unions? If the unions really thought it was an issue they would have submitted rather than just wave their arms through the media.
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