List Mgmt. 2015 Best 22 - Rolling thread

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Think what Yoda is trying to explain is two fold - Yoda is basing his assessment on Cooney's 2014, which was average - You don't get rid of Cconey if his form is good - The second part is that Yoda is hoping or expecting, that one or two of our young players will dominate VFL, and demand to be selected in the AFL.
 
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They're probably better examples of what I'm trying to get across hurlygurdy (Hocking, Dempsey, Stanton).

I don't think Myers was a bad suggestion seeing as he is fairly one dimensional and it's not inconceivable that Melksham comes good and pushes him to the fringes of the side. That being said I think it's far more likely that Myers continues his steady improvement and takes another step forward this year.
 

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Myers should definitely be in this discussion. As it sits right now he is in our best 22 quite comfortably but he is not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination, if he was struggling over a period of a few weeks and there were players to either come back from injury or showing form that can't be ignored in the VFL then his place would become very much vulnerable. I really hope this doesn't eventuate because his grunt in close and his booming left leg are big assests to the team.
 
Myers should definitely be in this discussion. As it sits right now he is in our best 22 quite comfortably but he is not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination, if he was struggling over a period of a few weeks and there were players to either come back from injury or showing form that can't be ignored in the VFL then his place would become very much vulnerable. I really hope this doesn't eventuate because his grunt in close and his booming left leg are big assests to the team.
For the last four seasons he has averaged almost 20 possessions a game, with moderate improvement year by year. He virtually doesn't have bad games full stop. He doesn't have that many elite games either (although that might change), but if his lower level remains competitive, that will insulate him. Then you have to factor in the big body that he brings to the contest, plus the kicking penetration, plus the maturity factor given his age.
Sorry i can't see it. I will eat my hat if he gets dropped this year.
 
Myers should definitely be in this discussion. As it sits right now he is in our best 22 quite comfortably but he is not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination, if he was struggling over a period of a few weeks and there were players to either come back from injury or showing form that can't be ignored in the VFL then his place would become very much vulnerable. I really hope this doesn't eventuate because his grunt in close and his booming left leg are big assests to the team.
Don't think he's vulnerable at all. Very consistent performer as well as a good leader. Would take something extraordinary for him to lose his spot
 
For the last four seasons he has averaged almost 20 possessions a game, with moderate improvement year by year. He virtually doesn't have bad games full stop. He doesn't have that many elite games either (although that might change), but if his lower level remains competitive, that will insulate him. Then you have to factor in the big body that he brings to the contest, plus the kicking penetration, plus the maturity factor given his age.
Sorry i can't see it. I will eat my hat if he gets dropped this year.

I stated that his performances to date have him comfortably in the best 22, no doubt about that at all. Given his lack of elite performances and the wraps on some of younger players, more precisely midfielders, if his performances were to drop then he absolutely becomes vulnerable, he has to. I am not saying he will but just think if he was to fall off the pace for a period of time his position would be looked at.
 
Think what Yoda is trying to explain is two fold - Yoda is basing his assessment on Cooney on his 2014 which was average - You dont get rid of Cconey if his form is good - The second part is that Yoda is hoping or expecting, that one or two of our young players will dominate VFL and demand to be selected in the AFL.
But because our side lacks pace, even if Cooney is just ticking along at 20+ a game like he did in 2014, i think he will have greater value to our side than he did to the WB side. It's only through his body letting him down that i can see him losing enough form to get dropped. Those niggling injuries could do the job on him...
 
With the addition of Cooney, the importance that Colyer now has to the team and the need to pick at least one of Ambrose and Giles, the team in my opinion starts to look like this.

Fletcher Hooker Baguley
Hibberd Hurley Dempsey
Zaharakis Watson Colyer
Cooney Ambrose Chapman
Z Merret Carlisle Daniher
Bellchamber Heppell Goddard
Winderlich Myers Stanton Hocking

so in order for us to IMPROVE the likes of Gleeson, Ashby, Langford, Laverde, Fantasia, Dalgleish, Kommer need to be added to that team.Thats without even considering the likes of Howlett and Melksham who have shown there best is more than capable of being a regular in the side.
 

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Just for the record, I don't see any of Kav, NOB, Hams dominating enough in the VFL to warrant such a discussion. As it stands the improvement would need to be 10 fold to even begin it


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I guess Hams is an unknown quantity, but it would be staggering to see him rise that far that quickly.
With the addition of Cooney, the importance Colyer now has to the team and the need to pick at least one of Ambrose and Giles the team in my opinion starts to look like this.

Fletcher Hooker Baguley
Hibberd Hurley Dempsey
Zaharakis Watson Colyer
Cooney Ambrose Chapman
Z Merret Carlisle Daniher
Bellchamber Heppell Goddard
Winderlich Myers Stanton Hocking

so in order for us to IMPROVE the likes of Gleeson, Ashby, Langford, Laverde, Fantasia, Dalgleish, Kommer need to be added to that team.Thats without even considering the likes of Howlett and Melksham who have shown there best is more than capable of being a regular in the side.
That's my side, but i like Zach as the sub. I think we need to start using the sub properly this year. The sub has to be an impact style player rather than the 22nd best player. Licka would be the only other that i would consider as a sub from that side as things stand right now (Colyer and Cooney are too valuable in the midfield). In general, Howlett, Dal, Edwards, Hams are the types we can look at during the year.
 
I guess Hams is an unknown quantity, but it would be staggering to see him rise that far that quickly.

That's my side, but i like Zach as the sub. I think we need to start using the sub properly this year. The sub has to be an impact style player rather than the 22nd best player. Licka would be the only other that i would consider as a sub from that side as things stand right now (Colyer and Cooney are too valuable in the midfield). In general, Howlett, Dal, Edwards, Hams are the types we can look at during the year.

Which means Myers surely fits into the category of being vulnerable if his form drops away and there are others banging the door down to get in. He isnt ahead of Watson, Heppell, Goddard, Zaharakis, Chapman, Colyer, Cooney and Z Merrett in my opinion. I believe Dempsey, Stanton, Myers and Hockings spots are the ones the likes of the players I mentioned before would be gunning for.
 
Which means Myers surely fits into the category of being vulnerable if his form drops away and there are others banging the door down to get in. He isnt ahead of Watson, Heppell, Goddard, Zaharakis, Chapman, Colyer, Cooney and Z Merrett in my opinion. I believe Dempsey, Stanton, Myers and Hockings spots are the ones the likes of the players I mentioned before would be gunning for.
The reason i think Myers is safe is because he so rarely has a bad game, and is having less and less of them each year. He is that work horse presence in the midfield that is really hard to stop. When was the last time you remember thinking 'Jeez Myers had a bad one!'? The only criticism he has copped had been relation to being another slow midfielder when we were desperate for pace, and having gone ahead of Stanton, he is safe on that score.
FWIW he is definitely ahead of Zach, but like Zach, will continue to get selected on the basis of being a future foundation of the club. Yet another reason he wont be dropped.
Edit: He had less than 17 touches once in 2014 and that was when he was sub (got 12 touches in under half a game). Super consistent player. Would get even more of the ball if he wasn't second fiddle to Watson and Heppell.
 
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The reason i think Myers is safe is because he so rarely has a bad game, and is having less and less of them each year. He is that work horse presence in the midfield that is really hard to stop. When was the last time you remember thinking 'Jeez Myers had a bad one!'? The only criticism he has copped had been relation to being another slow midfielder when we were desperate for pace, and having gone ahead of Stanton, he is safe on that score.
FWIW he is definitely ahead of Zach, but like Zach, will continue to get selected on the basis of being a future foundation of the club. Yet another reason he wont be dropped.

I just think if we were to go from a 7th ranked side to a top 2 ranked side the we need to improve in most areas, a large part of that will be adding players to the team, you said yourself Myers doesn't have elite games, has he reached his ceiling? Is he capable of taking his game to another level? Right now he is in the best 22 without doubt but once again I stress, if we are to get these young talented players into the team then some players have to go out of the team. Ask yourself this, would he get a game for Hawthorn or Sydney? Because that's the level we are striving to be at. If we stay in the pack and finish around the 7th to 10th mark then yeah he probably can continue to play the same role he currently is. We need to get to the stage where the likes of Tom Mitchell can't get in the team, it doesnt mean he isnt good enough, it means we have a bloody good team.
 
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I just think if we were to go from a 7th ranked side to a top 2 ranked side the we need to improve in most areas, a large part of that will be adding players to the team, you said yourself Myers doesn't have elite games, has he reached his ceiling? Is he capable of taking his game to another level? Right now he is in the best 22 without doubt but once again I stress, if we are to get these young talented players into the team then some players have to go out of the team. Ask yourself this, would he get a game for Hawthorn or Sydney? Because that's the level we are striving to be at. If we stay in the pack and finish around the 7th to 10th mark then yeah he probably can continue to play the same role he currently is. We need to get to the stage where the likes of Tom Mitchell can't get in the team, it doesnt mean he isnt good enough, it means we have a bloody good team.
You're right in that he has to improve if he wants to be part of a premiership side. Like i said, i think he would get more of the ball if he wasn't second fiddle to Watson and Heppell, but that means he needs to find ways to impact the game more when he is not playing the inside role. One way would be using his left foot to advantage by receiving on the outside when in attack. I think this has been tried, but his lack of pace means he doesn't get space very often.
He is getting to the point now though that he looks likely to start averaging high 20's when playing in the middle. If he can't find another really effective secondary role in the team, the other option is to give him the role he can do and look for Watson and Heppell to spend more time in other roles. It's a good plan for Watson to play up forward more to prolong his career anyway, whereas Heppell should, be able to bring his class to the forward line as well as the back line.
Where does Myers usually rest in the back line? Off HB? He seems pretty invisible back there which is a problem...
 
Half right, he did get dropped for the 2013 ANZAC match, but played every game in 2011
Apologies, it was Knights dropping him in 2010 that I remember. But yes, he has been dropped by Hird once. It's always stuck in my head because until Round 17 last year, he'd never played in winning side against Collingwood because of being dropped for that game.
 
Apologies, it was Knights dropping him in 2010 that I remember. But yes, he has been dropped by Hird once. It's always stuck in my head because until Round 17 last year, he'd never played in winning side against Collingwood because of being dropped for that game.

It was a bizzare omission, played all games before it including a 23 disposal match the week before and then reinstated straight after it even though we had a 40 point win and played the rest of the year out.
 
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But because our side lacks pace, even if Cooney is just ticking along at 20+ a game like he did in 2014, i think he will have greater value to our side than he did to the WB side. It's only through his body letting him down that i can see him losing enough form to get dropped. Those niggling injuries could do the job on him...

Ah - You are looking at possessions - Cooney had a very good 2013 and a distinctly average 2014 - Cooney will add pace but his best footy is a combination of inside and outside.
 
Ah - You are looking at possessions - Cooney had a very good 2013 and a distinctly average 2014 - Cooney will add pace but his best footy is a combination of inside and outside.
I don't doubt you are right. But if he continues in his 'average' capacity, he will make our side each week because he fills a need regardless of inside or outside. Unless we lose and start looking like s**t that is ;)
 

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